Barium carbonate.

[jsatan]

I've got some Barium carbonate. (got it about a year ago, thinking I could do something with it)

 

Well I've been reading (a little).

It seems I can make hydrogen peroixde from it.

by

heating the Barium carbonate -----> Barium peroxide.

Then add this to sulphuric acid.

 

But I've not got anymore informationnon that, but thats just something I've read, I've got h202 anyway.

 

But is there a way to change this into barium chlorate?

 

PS I'v now read it 2x that sulphuric acid isnt needed, hummmm....

[jsatan]

I was thinking, if I put this Barium peroxide in water it should make barium oxide.

this will turn into barium hydroixde with the water.

Then add some copper sulphate this will displace and give me copper hydroixde and barium sulphate.

 

barium sulphate glows in the dark.

something about heating it with charcoal will make it glow for along time.

sounds fun to me,

[jdurg]

Just remember that Barium is very toxic in the form of a soluble salt. Make sure you don't contaminate ANYTHING with the barium otherwise you can get yourself and others very, very sick.

[jsatan]

Yeah I know about thats, rat poison.

But as I know Barium sulfate isnt a problme as it doesnt dissolve in water.

Not thats I would eat it, lol.

[latentheat]

Barium sulfate is actually given to people in suspension form before various tests on the colon. It's safe because its insoluble.

[jsatan]

Yeah to look at their intestinal track

[akcapr]

actually i was about to ask the same question satan. lol. k umm ya. in art class theres huge tubs of ceramics chemicals. im gonna get some barium carbonate

[YT2095]

I've got some Barium carbonate. (got it about a year ago' date=' thinking I could do something with it)

 

is there a way to change this into barium chlorate?

[/quote']

 

you could dissolve it in Hydrochloric acid making barium chloride and then electrolise it to make your barium chlorate.

[jsatan]

you could dissolve it in Hydrochloric acid making barium chloride and then electrolise it to make your barium chlorate.

aha, Now I've a new reason to get some HCl. lol

 

PS what voltage does that have to be?

Also how come it wouldnt just split into in barium hydroxide?

:/

 

[jsatan]

Well I've been reading this site, and talk about beating about the bush.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/chlorate.html

Maybe its me but its like reading a magic trick, well if this that and the other then this that and that other again.

lol.

I'll find a new site to read,

[jsatan]

phew that wasnt easy info to find (maybe me).

So Barium carbonate will decompose at..... drum roll... .... .. .. ....

1300C.

But I'm still not sure if it will be barium oxide (BaO) or barium peroxide(BaO2).

[jsatan]

aha, I just have to heat it above 450C well it will be much higher than that anyway, 2birds one stone.

[YT2095]

aha' date=' Now I've a new reason to get some HCl. lol

 

PS what voltage does that have to be?

Also how come it wouldnt just split into in barium hydroxide?

:/

 

[/quote']

 

it`s not really critical in all honesty, but about 2.5 volts DC will be fine, just make sure the PSU has the current capacity to take what will be nearly a direct short! (failing that use a limiting resistor or a bulb).

 

the hydroxide won`t form for long as that`s Alkaline, and it`s in an Acid, so it`ll react more or less right away as soon as it`s produced

[jsatan]

it`s not really critical in all honesty' date=' but about 2.5 volts DC will be fine, just make sure the PSU has the current capacity to take what will be nearly a direct short! (failing that use a limiting resistor or a bulb).

 

the hydroxide won`t form for long as that`s Alkaline, and it`s in an Acid, so it`ll react more or less right away as soon as it`s produced [/quote']

I've been reading some post on this, but I never got why it would do this.

So is it because its harder to make the soln more alkaline then it would to make it ATE?

I'll get my computer psu out that a bit big tho, 5v. but will it hurt havint too much voltage?

Only side effect I can think of would be heating the soln.

[jsatan]

Just re-read your post YT how come the HCl isnt needed?

Where would the Cl come from?

Table salt then displace?

[YT2095]

Just re-read your post YT how come the HCl isnt needed?

Where would the Cl come from?

Table salt then displace?

 

eh? I said the Voltage isn`t critical, not the HCl

 

anyway, I don`t know if you`ve read the Whistle powder thread, but I could sure do with some of that Barium carbonate (and Strontium if you have any), perhaps we could do a deal???

[diltron]

i would build a plane powerd by it personally, all you have to do is invert the suction on the r0tarty gerter.

[jsatan]

eh? I said the Voltage isn`t critical' date=' not the HCl

 

anyway, I don`t know if you`ve read the Whistle powder thread, but I could sure do with some of that Barium carbonate (and Strontium if you have any), perhaps we could do a deal???[/quote']

Yeah sure thing, I've got a enough of it, about 750g I think.

Yeah send me a pm etc. I've not got any Strontium (shame, ).

Yeah sorry for the late reply, I've not got any internet at home atm, moved 3 weeks ago. I got to the library for the net, but sometime I can pick up a wifi network and use that, lol.

Yeah let me know YT I'm more then happy to trade.

[YT2095]

a PM`s on it`s way, also some of the KOH would be cool too, I`m sure we can work out a deal!

 

so, if anyones got any Strontium salts....

[YT2095]

well I`ve now got the Barium Carbonate as kindly sent by Jsatan

 

however something really bizare seems to be going on with it... when added to Nitric acid there`s a Very strong smell of H2S and a white ppt left over, at 1`st I thought my nitric acid was contaminated somehow with Sulphuric acid, but when I tried the same with HCl it all dissolved leaving only the tiniest amount of ppt and there was no H2S smell, so that lead me Further to beleive the nitric was contaminated

 

BUT, this morning, a mix of this carbonate with benzoic acid in Hot water, there`s the H2S again!

 

any ideas what`s going on here? I now suspect the Barium Carbonate has the contaminant.

but what could it be?

 

Nitric = H2S

HCl = no H2S

Benzoic =H2S

 

edit: ok this is getting really Strange now, I thought I`de try to get my barium Nitrate through the back door so to speak, I used the barium I`de dissolved in the HCl and added that soln to a soln of ammonium nitrate, imediately there`s a reaction and the soln turns opaque/white and there`s the H2S smell again!

 

Double edit: ALL acids make the H2S stink! I must have gotten used to it yesterday, I just tried HCl again, and it`s there strong and smelly as ever, sorry about the prior "findings" that`s just a hazzard of H2S, you get used to it after a while

[woelen]

This can perfectly be explained. A very common contamination of barium carbonate (and also of strontium carbonate) is barium sulfide (or strontium sulfide). This contamination can be up to 6% by weight. So, what you actually received is a mix of BaCO3 and BaS.

 

When you add this to nitric acid, then the BaCO3 decomposes as follows:

 

BaCO3 + 2HNO3 --> Ba(2+) + 2NO3(-) + H2O + CO2 (this does not surprise you ).

 

The BaS does the following:

 

BaS + 2HNO3 ---> Ba(2+) + 2NO3(-) + H2S (smell!!)

 

Part of the H2S is oxidized by HNO3 and both sulphur and sulfate are formed:

 

3H2S + 2HNO3 ---> 3S + 4H2O + 2NO

3H2S + 8HNO3 ---> 3H2SO4 + 4H2O + 8NO

 

The sulphur precipitates as a very fine white or very pale yellow precipitate. The H2SO4 forms the highly insoluble BaSO4 with Ba(2+) in solution.

 

 

With HCl you also get H2S, but this is not oxidized. However, H2S is also oxidized by oxygen from the air and this explains why even in HCl you get a very small amount of precipitate.

 

So, if you want to make Ba(NO3)2 from the barium carbonate, you dissolve it in excess amount of dilute HNO3 and let the precipitate settle. What remains is a very pure solution of Ba(NO3)2 in excess dilute HNO3. By decanting the clear liquid and heating this, the dry Ba(NO3)2 can be obtained.

 

If you want really pure Ba(NO3)2, then add a few drops of 10% H2O2 and swirl, after the initial fizzling stops, but before you let the white precipitate settle. This destroys any small remains of dissolved H2S and converts this to sulphur and water. This H2O2 will be destroyed on heating to dryness. Any remains of H2S will lead to sulphurous contamination of your Ba(NO3)2, making it impossible to make a clear solution with this, which is not nice.

[jsatan]

aha, So now I can get some sulphur from it, lol.

I always try and look on the bright side,

[YT2095]

LOL, Good luck, so far I`ve managed to stink the place out and blamed the cats for it, I think my excuse is wearing a little thin now though, as we only have 2 cats!

 

as for purification, I`m going the Chloride route, getting rid of much H2S as possible leaving barium chloride, Ultimately I`ll need KOH to displace this, as Barium Hydroxide is the goal, and K salts don`t contaminate as badly as Na salts do for my usage, from the OH, I`m free to make more of less any salt that I wish to. and that`s the product I`de like to keep in store as opposed to the carbonate.

[al93535]

YT2095,

 

You can get very cheap barium and strontium salts at pottery and ceramic suppliers. These are usually not as pure as other sources, but they work very well and are very cheap. They also have alot of other very interesting and useful chemicals. The link below is a supplier in the US, just for reference, as I see your location is not in the US. But perhaps other US members could use it.

 

http://clayartcenter.net/store/customer/home.php?cat=680&page=17

 

I think I just may try the carbonate reaction with HCl, followed by a electrolosis with 5 volts at 20 amps. I use carbon rods as electrodes when making KClO3, does anyone know if carbon rods will work well for the barium salt? Can I just follow the same procedure for KClO3, on BaClO3?

 

Thanks,

[YT2095]

yes it`ll work exactly the same, in fact Barium chloride has the exact same solubility as sodium chloride does also

I have no listing for the Chlorates solubility though. I also use carbon electrodes an am about to do this procedure myself in the next few days, I`ll post the results as they occur also.

I would point out that if there is Sulpher contamination in there, it would be best to go for the PERchlorate rather than the Chlorate for stability reasons.

and it might be an idea to use new unused electrodes incase there`s Sodium contamination, it doesn`t take many Na ions to totaly ruin/wash-out a good color!