Barium carbonate.

[al93535]

Thanks for the tip on the sulfur, I didn't think about that. Maybe I should try to purify it. I don't want to convert to the nitrate first, and purify as woelen posted above. Any other Ideas? I really do not want to go to the perchlorate, mainly because of a lack of platnium, and lead dioxide. I could make the lead dioxide anode but I'd rather stick to the chlorate if I can purify the carbonate. And yes I will be using new carbon sticks. I can't wait to see the color produced by the chlorate!!

 

Barium chloride solubility 36 grams / 100 ml

Barium chlorate solubility 27.4 grams / 100 ml

 

It seems Ba(ClO4)2 is in the form of a hydrate, Ba(ClO4)2 · xH2O. You could make it anhydrous, but if used if fireworks, you would have to use a non-aqueous binder system. Looks like I want the chlorate for sure.

[YT2095]

I`ve found that adding the carbonate to HCl a little at a time until the Fizzing stops then add a few drops og HCl again making a reasonably clear soln of Barium Chloride, then if you leave this to stand (over night) you`ll find that most of the contaminants will fall to the bottom, if you carefully filter this (a very fine mesh paper is needed) you can get rid of all the particulate matter in there

I`ve made up 150 ml of this and now have it gently evaporating all the water off to leave my barium chloride crystals, it`ll be some of these that I`ll be using to make the chlorate with.

I`m not Overly concerned with other minor contaminants, so long as non of them are Sodium!

[al93535]

Ok I will try that out then! Thanks alot! I will just decant the solution and dry it, as I don't have anything finer then coffee filters right now. All my good filter papers have been used. I will make a trial batch of chlorate, and if all goes well I will try for 454 grams.

[YT2095]

454g.. erm, any reason for that particular amount? it seems Rather "Specific"

the only reason I made 150ml was because it was more or less 1/4 of the way up in my conical flask, and allows room for the fizzing action without risk of overflow

 

and yeah, decanting very carefully`s also a good method just tricky and a little wastefull.

btw, I`m fairly sure at the cathode you can get away most metals, it`s just the anode that`s critical, and I`m not sure of solubility of Barium Chlorate so you May need to add excess water at the end, and then boil it and filter while it`s still hot to get rid of the carbon particles, hopefully the Chlorate will stay in soln during this, It works with other salts of low solubility

[woelen]

I`ve found that adding the carbonate to HCl a little at a time until the Fizzing stops then add a few drops og HCl again making a reasonably clear soln of Barium Chloride' date=' then if you leave this to stand (over night) you`ll find that most of the contaminants will fall to the bottom, if you carefully filter this (a very fine mesh paper is needed) you can get rid of all the particulate matter in there

I`ve made up 150 ml of this and now have it gently evaporating all the water off to leave my barium chloride crystals, it`ll be some of these that I`ll be using to make the chlorate with.

I`m not Overly concerned with other minor contaminants, so long as non of them are Sodium![/quote']

Keep in mind that H2S is soluble quite well and this will remain in your clear solution. On evaporating, this is oxidized to sulphur and water, and possible even some sulfite and sulfate. You do not want that impurities in your BaCl2.2H2O.

 

If I were you, I would not only add a few drops of HCl after fizzling stops, but also a few drops of 30% H2O2 per 100 ml of liquid in order to oxidize H2S immediately (giving water and sulphur and possibly also some sulfate). Any S and BaSO4 formed will settle at the bottom when left overnight and any excess H2O2 will evaporate away when BaCl2 is made.

[YT2095]

thnx, I`ll try that one next time, I`ve already added a little 9% H2O2 to my BaCl2, but just for now, I`m trying to find the best method of producing Barium Benzoate, which proc is cleaner faster and with the best yield, the direct Barium Carbonate with benzoic acid, and the Potassium Benzoate with the barium chloride are the 2 I`m testing at the moment.

surprisingly Barium Benzoate can be quite soluble when Hot, and grows beautifull crystals as it cools, it almost remonds me of Potassium Chlorate precipitation when done using saturated NaClO3 and KCl solns mixed togeter in a large glass vessel, it seems to fall like snowflakes for hours, and looks great in direct sunlight

anyway aesthetics aside, the yeild between them both is about equal, with the benzoic and the carbonate being somewhat messier due to contaminants, and it also requires heating and decantation while still hot.

although if I could make Barium Hydroxide, I`de prefer that method.

[YT2095]

Hmmm... TOTALY perplexed now!

 

I left a clear filtered mix of barium chloride and Potassium benzoate on the heater at 80c for 4 hours in a 250ml conical flask, the initial volume was 150ml, the final volume was 90ml.

BUT! it`s now gone a clear brown color and stinks of Phenolic resin??

the same smell of the old brown 1950`s Paxolin circuit boards when over heated.

 

What the Smeg happened!?????

 

edit: after having a look at the H2O2 bottle I find it contains Phosphoric acid and Phenacetin, could That has caused the trouble perhaps?

[jdurg]

Hmmm... TOTALY perplexed now!

 

I left a clear filtered mix of barium chloride and Potassium benzoate on the heater at 80c for 4 hours in a 250ml conical flask' date=' the initial volume was 150ml, the final volume was 90ml.

BUT! it`s now gone a clear brown color and stinks of Phenolic resin??

the same smell of the old brown 1950`s Paxolin circuit boards when over heated.

 

What the Smeg happened!?????

 

edit: after having a look at the H2O2 bottle I find it contains Phosphoric acid and Phenacetin, could That has caused the trouble perhaps?[/quote']

 

Heh. This is why every home chemist should have a GC/MS and an IR-Spectrometer. Remember that when using 'store bought' chemicals that don't come from a chemical supplier, there's a good chance that there's other 'crap' in there that they just didn't mention. In most cases that 'crap' won't do anything, but in certain cases it can screw with things.

 

(BTW, the comment 'What the Smeg happened!???' literally made me spit coffee on my monitor here at work. The problems with knowing a good deal about biology. Cream cheese anyone? )

[YT2095]

well I`ve finaly finished my electrolysis of the barium chloride to make the Chlorate, it`s been running since friday evening until about 2 hours ago, the soln after filtering was perfectly clear and crystalised beautifuly

the filter paper was also kept as a test, and burned well with more green around the edges and gets washed out by the sodium in the paper, but non the less, the crystaline product is practicaly free of all sodium ions ))

 

I`ve also found an interesting read here: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/barium.html

 

now that this process is "tried and tested" I`ll scale it up a little and hopefully get about 25 grams (a container full) for later/future use.

 

Also, I`m now drying my Barium Nitrate crystals, Start with a near saturated soln of Barium Chloride and add that a near saturated soln of Ammonium Nitrate, making sure the AN is slightly in excess, you`ll see the soln go cloudy almost instantly, stir well and leave it in a warm place to evaporate the water off slowly, you`ll start to see crystals form, that`ll be your Barium Nitrate

[jsatan]

well I`ve finaly finished my electrolysis of the barium chloride to make the Chlorate' date=' it`s been running since friday evening until about 2 hours ago, the soln after filtering was perfectly clear and crystalised beautifuly

the filter paper was also kept as a test, and burned well with more green around the edges and gets washed out by the sodium in the paper, but non the less, the crystaline product is practicaly free of all sodium ions ))

 

I`ve also found an interesting read here: http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Campus/5361/chlorate/barium.html

 

now that this process is "tried and tested" I`ll scale it up a little and hopefully get about 25 grams (a container full) for later/future use.

 

Also, I`m now drying my Barium Nitrate crystals, Start with a near saturated soln of Barium Chloride and add that a near saturated soln of Ammonium Nitrate, making sure the AN is slightly in excess, you`ll see the soln go cloudy almost instantly, stir well and leave it in a warm place to evaporate the water off slowly, you`ll start to see crystals form, that`ll be your Barium Nitrate

 

I could of sent you some Barium nitrate,I had 250g or so of it, wasted most of it as I put it on a fire ( the only way it would do anything).

I've about 100g left of so,

[YT2095]

well yeah, if you`de like to part with some of it, I know of a good home where it WILL be used in a little less hap-hazzard way

 

if you can get any Strontium salts also, that would be worth me putting you on my X-Mas card list too

I don`t have a lot time to do much "Shopping around" anymore (domestic duties).

 

 

btw, have you had a look at the last few posts here, the chloride and subsequent conversions of this are well worth doing, it`s a most excellent Green!

[jdurg]

Hmmm. That'd be a Christmas-y little fire there. Throw some Strontium salts on the fire for the red color, then throw some Barium salts on there for the green color. Hehe. "Have an alkaline-earth metal Christmas. It's the best time of the year. Stron-ti-um and Bar-i-um and lots and lots of beer........"

 

 

 

Hehe. I need help.

[woelen]

....and lots of beer........" QUOTE]

Jdurg, I'm afraid that would be the end of your nice Christmas-fire, unless you have REALLY strong beer .

[jdurg]

....and lots of beer........"

Jdurg' date=' I'm afraid that would be the end of your nice Christmas-fire, unless you have REALLY strong beer .[/quote']

 

Well the beer wasn't supposed to go into the fire. (Until much later when it's already been processed by the liver and filtered out by the kidneys. Then you can put it on the fire to cease the festivities. )

[jsatan]

well yeah' date=' if you`de like to part with some of it, I know of a good home where it WILL be used in a little less hap-hazzard way

 

if you can get any Strontium salts also, that would be worth me putting you on my X-Mas card list too

I don`t have a lot time to do much "Shopping around" anymore (domestic duties).

 

 

btw, have you had a look at the last few posts here, the chloride and subsequent conversions of this are well worth doing, it`s a most excellent Green! [/quote']

I'll have a look out for you, I'm wanting some Strontium salts.

I'm sure I can find some and send some your way. lol.

[jdurg]

Go to an auto parts store and pick up some emergency road flares. Those contain copious amounts of strontium salts used to make the bright red flare that is easy to see.

[YT2095]

I'll have a look out for you' date=' I'm wanting some Strontium salts.

I'm sure I can find some and send some your way. lol.[/quote']

 

Nice one, Thnx

 

btw, as posted in #8, I`ve done this myself and it works excellently! I`ve just tested it today (takes a while to make) and the Green is absolutely perfect! I think you`ll be pleased with the results when you try it