Homosexuality

[GeminiinimeG]

Ok what is homosexuality exactly? Is this cause by anything in particular and can homosexuals be turned back to being straight? And no i dont care about homosexuals its just humans arent meant to be homosexuals and people kep saying were modern and its ok, no its not ok many times this happens because people have been abused or been tormented all their lives about something and they finally became gay, so anyone saying its allright shut your trap because no one wants to hear it

[starbug1]

Here is something interesting that, for the most part, disproves the abnormaility of homosexuality.

 

http://www.bidstrup.com/sodomy.htm

[Mokele]

Ok what is homosexuality exactly?

 

The predominant sexual attraction to members of the same sex.

 

Is this cause by anything in particular

 

We know there's a genetic component, but there is also an environmental component. The search for both is ongoing, but the latter is most likely in-utero, and at most before age 4.

 

can homosexuals be turned back to being straight?

 

No. While the so-called "ex-gay" organizations claim so, actual investigation reveals a success rate on the long term of 0%. They can put people into denial, but not actually change anything.

 

Incidentally, the leader and creator of the largest of these organizations left them and ran off to canada with his same-sex VP to get married.

 

its just humans arent meant to be homosexuals and people kep saying were modern and its ok, no its not ok

 

Bullshit. Humans are not "meant" to be or do anything except possibly to be a group of troop primates without body hair and with lots of tools. Homosexuality is common in nature, in everything from whales to beetles.

 

As for "OK", what makes you think it isn't? Nobody's being hurt, it's two consenting adults, so what gives you the right to proclaim it "not OK"?

 

many times this happens because people have been abused or been tormented all their lives about something and they finally became gay,

 

No, that's factually incorrect. Abuse does not lead to homosexuality.

 

, so anyone saying its allright shut your trap because no one wants to hear it

 

Funny you should say that, because there's a warning for intolerant/racist remarks on this forum, which you should be receiving shortly. Receive it a few more times, and a nice little ban will shut you up.

 

If you want a reasoned discussion, that's fine, but do so without the disparaging and intolerant remarks.

 

Mokele

[starbug1]

Mokele: you had more guts than I did. I tagged GeminiinimeG with ignorance and looked past it. My laurels to you.

 

 

so i'm assuming this thread is done with?

[SorceressPol]

I have a question. Why is it that it's mostly guys that get really freaked out by gays. Most women I know don't care.

[GeminiinimeG]

ok its not that i really hate them or anything its just someone close to me was kinda turned into one by a lifetime of experiences, to me it seems like its just experiences a human goes through through their entire life and boom they are made that way, is this not some kinds of psychological disease or something? sorry about saying shut your trap its just thats the same day i found out

[GeminiinimeG]

"I may be missing something here, but the reason why identical twins are such fascinating subjects of scientific study is because they ARE alike genetically. Therefore, if homosexuality is solely genetic in origin, then if one twin is gay, you would expect the chances of the other twin being gay to be 100%! The fact that only 52% of those who were identical in genetic makeup to their homosexual twin were gay themselves would strongly confirm that genetics alone does not make one homosexual!"

 

I got this off http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/hom/hom_04.htm

 

if this guys are right then homosexuality is not caused by genetics but caused by some kind of psychological trauma or what ever, its highly possible that this is caused by some thing that happens in this peoples lives and should not be ignored should it

so syaing that its natural really does not make sense because perverted homosexuals try to turn straight people into homosexuals and this really shouldnt be happening. What if you have one child, he turns out homosexual and your genetic makeup will no longer be passed on to the next generations, are we not made to reproduce and pass on our genes to the next generation?

[GeminiinimeG]

"Some people have studied twins. If homosexuality were truly genetic, you would expect to find a one-to-one correlation of sexual orientation for identical twins. In other words, every time one twin was homosexual, the other identical twin would be too because they share identical genes. What some twin studies have shown is that when one twin is homosexual, the number of times the other twin is also homosexual occurs more often than the general rates of homosexuality in society. But these studies also looked at the rest of the family and they found that the rates of homosexuality among the rest of the family, including adopted brothers was 200-300% more frequent than the general rates in society. And so the data leads to the conclusion that something is causing homosexuality to occur more frequently in certain families but that it can not be genetics because the increase even occurs in adopted brothers who do not share any genes at all with the rest of the family. "

 

also basically the same as above but explains its probably because of the family, http://www.exodusglobalalliance.org/causesc37.php

[AL]

Well aside from the false dichotomy fallacy of assuming that homosexuality must be caused entirely by either genetics or environment, rather than some combination of the two with some confounding factors thrown in for good measure, I'd really like to see these religious apologetics sites explain how homosexuality occurs in animals. Do gay animals get abused? Do they grow up in broken homes?

[GeminiinimeG]

ok why do the animals matter? I am talking about human beings being affected psychologically by homosexuals being portrayed as being normal, all this makes young kids believe its all normal and basically tells them if they feel gay then its ok just go ahead and be gay, i know i heard somewere that mostly all men have had some kind of experience that made them feel that way, i knowi felt like that for like a week but i knew that kind of stuff wasnt for me, i just tought about it, so basically any man who ever has somekind of homosexual experience will be like oh ok this is normal i guess ill be with men then. I dont care about religion or about homosexuals its just it seems like some kind of psychological disease, being homosexual has no point to life at all, what if i have my best friend are we going to become partners because we love each other? No because you love smeone does not mean your going to become a homosexual, hope that made sense

[LucidDreamer]

"I may be missing something here' date=' but the reason why identical twins are such fascinating subjects of scientific study is because they ARE alike genetically. Therefore, if homosexuality is solely genetic in origin, then if one twin is gay, you would expect the chances of the other twin being gay to be 100%! The fact that only 52% of those who were identical in genetic makeup to their homosexual twin were gay themselves [b']would strongly confirm that genetics alone does not make one homosexual!"[/b]

 

I got this off http://www.ccel.org/contrib/exec_outlines/hom/hom_04.htm

 

if this guys are right then homosexuality is not caused by genetics but caused by some kind of psychological trauma or what ever,

The statement from the Christian organization and your statement are different. They were correct in saying that study indicates that there is more than just a genetic component, but you are incorrect in saying that "homosexuality is not caused by genetics" The fact that 52% of the twins were gay when his identical twin was gay, when it is far more likely in our culture to be strait, indicates that there is a genetic component. Furthermore, according to your source, the amount of fraternal twins that are gay when their twin was gay was only 22%. So the more genetics you have in common the more likely you are to share sexual preference

 

"

so syaing that its natural really does not make sense because perverted homosexuals try to turn straight people into homosexuals and this really shouldnt be happening.

Girls Gone Wild tries to turn woman into lesbians for the night and nobody seems to mind. I fail to see the logic that homosexuality is unnatural because homosexuals try to turn straight people into homosexuals. Gay animals try to mount heterosexual animals and nobody starts screaming that it's unnatural. I have been around homosexuals several times and had no fear of turning into a homosexual.

What if you have one child' date=' he turns out homosexual and your genetic makeup will no longer be passed on to the next generations, are we not made to reproduce and pass on our genes to the next generation?[/quote']

What if you have a child and he marries a heterosexual partner, but decides not to have children? I think the parents should accept the child regardless.

[GeminiinimeG]

I said that psychology has a greater role that genetics, perhaps your genes make you weak and you can be changed rather quickly did you think of that? Why are people defending homosexuality so much, i have nothing against it you know, its just i am trying to see what exactly causes it

 

I am not hating on this guys you know, i am just trying to explain that it must be mostly psychological, animals do not get married they jsut have partners dont they? Humans beings dont go around having sex with a lot of women to make them pregnant do they? well maybe some do but thats another story, basically if your a kid sees a guy kissing another guy or a woman kissing another woman the kid will try it out and this means he was basically tought to be that way and he wasnt originally, i know some people are born that way, bu8t what about the kids who would have been straight and some pervert caused them to become homosexuals?

[LucidDreamer]

"Some people have studied twins. If homosexuality were truly genetic' date=' you would expect to find a one-to-one correlation of sexual orientation for identical twins. In other words, every time one twin was homosexual, the other identical twin would be too because they share identical genes.

[/quote']

This is bs because no human behavior is 100% genetic. Show me one behavior or personality trait that is shared 100% between twins raised in different homes or in a single home. Just because there are environmental factors does not mean that there are not also genetic components.

 

What some twin studies have shown is that when one twin is homosexual, the number of times the other twin is also homosexual occurs more often than the general rates of homosexuality in society. But these studies also looked at the rest of the family and they found that the rates of homosexuality among the rest of the family, including adopted brothers was 200-300% more frequent than the general rates in society.

The author fails to mention that studies have been done on identical twins raised in different families. This would factor out the effect of environmental factors, which was the whole point of the study. I'm not sure if these are the studies that he is referring to because he does not mention his sources.

But these studies also looked at the rest of the family and they found that the rates of homosexuality among the rest of the family, including adopted brothers was 200-300% more frequent than the general rates in society. And so the data leads to the conclusion that something is causing homosexuality to occur more frequently in certain families but that it can not be genetics because the increase even occurs in adopted brothers who do not share any genes at all with the rest of the family. "

I can't find a source on this website for the studies so I cannot confirm it. The author has already misrepresented research so I might as well assume that he just did it again. I wouldn't trust a Christian organization to faithfully represent research about homosexuality and I certainly wouldn't trust their conclusions drawn from the research.

[Phi for All]

I am not hating on this guys you know, i am just trying to explain that it must be mostly psychological, animals do not get married they jsut have partners dont they?

So it's marriage that has you most troubled?

basically if your a kid sees a guy kissing another guy or a woman kissing another woman the kid will try it out and this means he was basically tought to be that way and he wasnt originally,

Do you think trying it out permanently fixes your sexual preferences? Isn't experimentation the act of testing to see if it works for you? Didn't you say:

i know i heard somewere that mostly all men have had some kind of experience that made them feel that way, i knowi felt like that for like a week but i knew that kind of stuff wasnt for me[/u'],

I added the underscore, btw. Do you think homosexuality is so powerfully attractive that one experience will hook you even though you may not have been predisposed to it? I think you're not giving everyone else the free will you seem to enjoy. It's a choice, nothing more.

[GeminiinimeG]

well it was made clear to me that I was sounding very judgemental about the subject, I guess t was wrong of me to talk in that manner and It is just because i do not understand why are people like that? Are people born that way or is there something hat makes them that way, I would never treat a person differently if they were or were not gay, its just i want to understand why it is they do become that way any help would be appreciated

[aiza]

ok its not that i really hate them or anything its just someone close to me was kinda turned into one by a lifetime of experiences, to me it seems like its just experiences a human goes through through their entire life and boom they are made that way, is this not some kinds of psychological disease or something? sorry about saying shut your trap its just thats the same day i found out

 

You sure sound like you hate em, Considering the fact that You dont want to here any pros to talk with.

Well I had a huge thing for this one guy, he ended up to be a homo and I still think his hot. What does it matter? his still human. The thing is in the bible they all should be burned. **snickers** makes it all funny.

[aiza]

well it was made clear to me that I was sounding very judgemental about the subject, I guess t was wrong of me to talk in that manner and It is just because i do not understand why are people like that? Are people born that way or is there something hat makes them that way, I would never treat a person differently if they were or were not gay, its just i want to understand why it is they do become that way any help would be appreciated

 

No, people are not born to be homos. They develop it, Like Phobias, Your not born with Phobia, you learn it, you develop in.

Homo can be developed through alot of ways, Culture, trauma.... alot of reasons and In the end its hard to blame them....

 

As for your question of them able to go back to normal, for women yes, its very possible, Coz then when they give birth their motherly instinc kicks back.

 

as for men, well... Im not sure, but sometimes some homo guys would like to keep their masculinity....thats a diffrent topic though... **snickers**

[rthmjohn]

I don't know if you have studied ancient Greek history, GeminiinimeG, but during the ancient Olympics of whatever BC, all, with the exception of a few, athletes were single males and by tradition were not allowed to marry. Because of this, Greek society (hetero and homosexual men alike) actually encouraged athletes to have intimate relationships with each other so that they would avoid having children. The competitors went along with this cultural belief, and at the time, it was rare to find a -- by our modern verbiage -- "straight" athlete competing in the Olympics. Did the ANCIENT Greek athletes experience pschological TRAUMA? I think that the US has the biggest homophobic population in the world. Maybe homophobes are the ones with the problem because they can't accept diversity. I also don't believe that "straight" people are in a position to say whether or not homosexuality is natural; how would they know? Homosexuality is not new concept; it has existed probably since the first Neandertals. To fully understand its existence, we have to trace its origins to prehistoric times.

[aiza]

very correct

[Mokele]

No, people are not born to be homos. They develop it, Like Phobias, Your not born with Phobia, you learn it, you develop in.

Homo can be developed through alot of ways, Culture, trauma.... alot of reasons and In the end its hard to blame them....

 

Factually incorrect. A modest amount of googling should dispell this myth for you, and I suggest you start at the PFLAG website. Homosexuality has a genetic component, as well as environmental components. The latter appear to occur no later than age 4, iirc. My bet would be on in-utero chemicals or pheremones, but the jury's still out.

 

However, even *if* it was a choice, well, so's religion. We have laws stating you cannot persecute someone for their faith, and most civilized individuals would consider something like that to be intolerant and hateful. So why balk at showing the same courtesy to other sexual orientations?

 

Mokele

[aiza]

Factually incorrect. A modest amount of googling should dispell this myth for you' date=' and I suggest you start at the PFLAG website. Homosexuality has a genetic component, as well as environmental components. The latter appear to occur no later than age 4, iirc. My bet would be on in-utero chemicals or pheremones, but the jury's still out.

 

However, even *if* it was a choice, well, so's religion. We have laws stating you cannot persecute someone for their faith, and most civilized individuals would consider something like that to be intolerant and hateful. So why balk at showing the same courtesy to other sexual orientations?

 

Mokele[/quote']

 

But some people develop it. I am partly correct. Its impossible that you cant develop it, I have friends who are... and take note all wer born straight. falls down to both then, may be born with and not.

[Mokele]

And why do you dismiss the possibility that they *were* born gay, but were simply unable to figure it out until recently? That's not uncommon, especially given how society's views on the subject can lead individuals into deep denial for the sake of mental self-preservation.

 

Mokele

[starbug1]

well it was made clear to me that I was sounding very judgemental about the subject' date=' I guess t was wrong of me to talk in that manner and It is just because,[u'] i do not understand why are people like that? Are people born that way or is there something hat makes them that way[/u] I would never treat a person differently if they were or were not gay, its just i want to understand why it is they do become that way any help would be appreciated

 

GeminiinimeG, You have been presented with adequate information on the subject yet you keep asking why? I can tell from your first three or four posts that you sounded, not alight with a newfound interest in the origins of homosexuality, but more anxious than anything. So what is it, are you desperate for the information because you are afraid that you yourself might be a homosexual, or that you want to know why this "close friend" turned that way. What is it so all of us know what you are trying to get at. Because really, it sounds that you are very offensive to homosexual behavior, despite your later posts with assuring smilies, and even more so that you might just turn out that way.

 

 

 

 

Oh, and if you want to know why I posted a thoroughly informative link in response to your initial thread starter.

[aiza]

And why do you dismiss the possibility that they *were* born gay' date=' but were simply unable to figure it out until recently? That's not uncommon, especially given how society's views on the subject can lead individuals into deep denial for the sake of mental self-preservation.

 

Mokele[/quote']

 

Coz you pointed it out, and I admited I made a mistake... whats so evil about that?

[MulderMan]

Heres something ive been wondering for a while. Is there any evidence that humans are born straight, or is hetrosexuality developed also?