What is time

[mike@albanyr]

If my mate is travelling to the sun in his very fast sport rocket sat say .99c, my clock at home will measure his trip at around 8 minutes, but because of time dilation his clock will measure say 1 minute. Does that mean that the distance he travelled from his point of view was 1 light minute rather than 8 minutes. Was his trip actually a shorted distance??

[ydoaPs]

yes, due to length contraction

[arkain101]

yes we are simple minded organism in a superior complex universe.

 

Space is a name we call nothing. Look at it from the meaning point of view and because it isnt anything and its not really there then how should it be named. A more logical naming to me would be relative bridge. You see the universe is so complex that it does not exist in our idea of reality. It is infanitly large and small.

I would call it the relative bridge because, something that is 5million miles away is at the same time 1mm away. Depending on where it is relative to you and the bridge inbetween is the space. Time to me apears to be the explanation of what relative you are currently at in the multiple dilations that exist.

 

I am no expert, only a highschool graduate 22 years old, but with the right amount of imagination all incomprenhisble things can in turn comprehended.

[ydoaPs]

can you explain that in english?

[YT2095]

I see time as the duration between events of change in Space, each event being a time "marker".

[Maioux]

In my opinion, time was created by humans as a way of organization and planning. Before time, there was just day and night, repeatedly. Cycles are what time is now defined as.

[ThatOneIdea]

I agree with Maioux, I believe that time is a fabricated illusion that humanity made to keep track of certain events or dates.Time in my opinion does not exist. We think of time and clocks are the most common relation we imagine. But when did time start, when does it end? What truely is the clock measuring? Also, time is perceived by everyone differently, 'time' stops when someone dies, but keeps going to someone else. Then theres the Atomic Clock, when did that start? How exactly did they know at what 'time' to set it? I really dont believe time exists, more of an aid to people everywhere.

[Mobius]

I believe that time is a fabricated illusion that humanity made to keep track of certain events or dates.

 

this is a strange comment. Surely you should be able to see time in a 'cause and effect' way. Evolution, chaos, Entropy are also examples of time. It is not just a human concept. Our percecption of time however is different. This is more shady.

 

But when did time start, when does it end?

 

It is widely beleived that time started at the big bang, as for its ending, it may never end depending on the future of our universe.

 

What truely is the clock measuring?

 

A clock is a device with continually moving parts, usually oscillating in a periodic way and is therefore able to show lengths of 'time'.

What we choose to read on our clocks is the time we have defined to be the 24 hour day. however we could set our watchs to read anything.

 

'time' stops when someone dies, but keeps going to someone else

 

Time does not stop when people die. however that person is not able to register the passing of time.

 

the Atomic Clock, when did that start? How exactly did they know at what 'time' to set it?

 

The atomic clock is a clock that uses atoms as the oscillators so it is similar to any other type of watch, it is just really acurate. Whatever time they set to it, does not really matter, what does matter is that it will remain acurate to a high degree over a long period of time.

 

I really dont believe time exists, more of an aid to people everywhere.

 

If you want to seriously consider this idea then I suggest you read Julian Barbour's 'The end of time'

 

If you want history of how we decided to register time in say the 24 hour day etc.. Then you should read Alexander Waugh's book 'Time'

[swansont]

Then theres the Atomic Clock, when did that start? How exactly did they know at what 'time' to set it?

 

That part is arbitrary. Since time is relative anyway, it only matters in your own reference frame.

[ThatOneIdea]

Thats if you belive in evolution of course, I dont think it has been proven as an axiom. Yes thats what many people believe, but the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory. I know what a clock is but thank you for simplifying the inner workings of one. I know what you mean, you can set your watch to any time you want, but the 'right' time is still accurate. Accurate to what? What exactly defines the right time? And like I said, time is possibly different to each person since it "only matters in your own reference frame" then I suppose I can make it whatever time I want??

[swansont]

Thats if you belive in evolution of course, I dont think it has been proven as an axiom. Yes thats what many people believe, but the Big Bang theory is just that, a theory. I know what a clock is but thank you for simplifying the inner workings of one. I know what you mean, you can[/i'] set your watch to any time you want, but the 'right' time is still accurate. Accurate to what? What exactly defines the right time? And like I said, time is possibly different to each person since it "only matters in your own reference frame" then I suppose I can make it whatever time I want??

 

The big bang and evolution are separate theories, but that's a different topic.

 

You can choose your own time, I suppose, but in communicating with anybody else you need a common reference. So we choose one, defining the second by international agreement, and then do our best to realize a timescale based on that definition. Not really that much different than defining a length and doing our best to realize that in devices that measure length.

[Mobius]

Also, seeings as most of us do not get the opportunity to travel at close to light speeds relative to others (I presume no one but just making sure), it is quite straightforward to synchronise our watchs to an acuracy that suits us.

[swansont]

Also, seeings as most of us do not get the opportunity to travel at close to light speeds relative to others (I presume no one but just making sure), it is quite straightforward to synchronise our watchs to an acuracy that suits us.

 

The time dilation effect is integrated over the trip, so it can matter, if your clock is good enough. Colleagues of mine have to account for the couple of nanoseconds of phase their clocks accumulate in cross-country calibration trips, even though the maximum speeds are of order 55-65 mph!

[arkain101]

I consider time as the following.

 

Time is the way to explain the idea of a point of beginning and end where all things interact to create events.

 

Stars have so called lives which are relevant to the fuel they contain to function. There is a period of reactions that occur untill the "time" comes for a change in the structure of the star. Although according to the cosmos it is only a fuction of interaction and reaction.

 

I think there is many ways to look at time. Science shows that time is always the same to you in your area of point of reference, but can be changed at different areas of observation depending on how those areas are undergoing the laws that control the universe. Time only exists through matter and energy. It cant be implemented into an area of the vacume of space.

so to explain time when refering to ALL things. I suppose it is a explanation of the reaction of atoms and energy and all things that make up the universe interacting with each other and what point they are at in these interactions to understand what can come next. It is a way to measure stages and cirtain points of the current state of these interactions. Though only life can manifest the reason or meaning for time, from using specific reference point that does not exist or is not included in anything otherwise of life. (like rocks and regular matter). A specific reference point is something like a cycle around the sun for earth. Someone chose to mark a spot of where earth is, then to call it the year point or the point of 1 cycle. but only life can make up such a thing.

[CanadaAotS]

I think time doesn't exist, and that the universe exists in an infinite amount of "frames" that the conscious mind "plays" creating the illusion of time.

 

Just like tv's create the illusion of motion.

[Xyph]

I don't see how what you've described as "the illusion of time" is any different to what most would call "time". What do you think people usually call time? Illusion or not, if there seem to be events that have happened and events that could happen, what do you have other than time? What name would you give the illusion?

[RoyLennigan]

time is a measurement of 'distance' through the fourth dimension. saying time doesnt exist is the same thing as saying the meter doesnt exist. you can dispute the accuracy of time, but you cannot dispute that there is a fourth dimension. there is just as much probability that time is an illusion as there is that the spacial dimensions are illusions.

[LucidDreamer]

To expand on Roy's comment: the illusion of time is no different than the illusion of the tree. What we see and think about being a tree is not the tree, but the tree exists. It was once said that the map is not the territory, which is true. Our perception of time and a tree is merely a mental fabrication that represents a real thing, however inaccurately.

[ParticleOne]

It is really interesting to observe all the confusion about time, but at the same time it is understandable.

 

Time is a human invented measuring parameter for movement over distance.

Early measurement of time was night and day based on earth’s movement around the sun, but modern science requires exact measurements over very short time, and in order to do that we are using the resonance frequency of a stable caesium 133 atom which gives us 9 192 631 770 fractions of a second, sufficient for most measurements.

 

Why do we forget so easily? We invented and specified what the time parameter should be, and now we are turning around asking what time is?

We do not question so much what a meter distance is, and we specified that parameter too.

 

Time is a totally passive measurement, and can not influence any physical parameter, forces do, and that’s what we are measuring.

The confusion starts when applying time measurements to confusing and complex forces and we start to mix forces, movement and time measurement as all influencing parameters.

 

Let’s take a hypothetical where we take away some influencing parameters:

Imagine you took a video camera that showed exact time with the picture and you moved far away from the masses in the universe and started filming the galaxies, stars etc. Since we are at a hypothetical level we will also ignore the speed and deflections of light and call it instant and straight. Suddenly two stars far away from each other exploded at the same TIME according to the picture and the time shown in the camera. So two thing happened at the same time billions of lightyears apart and it is recorded and the clock shows the same time.

 

Now we will face a little reality and reinstate that light travels as a certain speed c so it will take some time from the event till it shows in the camera. If we record the same event, but now with light travelling at speed c. Now our recording shows that the first explosion according to the clock was at 11:00 one day and the other explosion at 15:00 the next day. If we had no knowledge of the influencing parameters we would say that the two events took place 28 hours apart.

 

Since we now are fairly enlightened we know that we need to look into the conditions for the measurement. First we need to know the distance to each star from the camera, then we need to know the escape parameters for the light from the star until it was not influenced by the stars gravity or media it had to travel through which slowed the speed down and also if it had been curved along the way to the camera so it had travelled a longer distance than we thought.

 

In other words we need to know a lot of parameters in order to qualify the time measurement. But our measurement (time) was passively waiting as a number to be compensated for the physical parameters that influenced time of the event till the light that told us about the event reached the camera. Our time measurement could do nothing about it, but the parameters influencing the speed of light would influence our measurement. A mix of the passive and active elements would cause confusion.

 

So to the classical question: if time is a measurement of movement, does time stop if the object we are measuring does not move? No, as long as there is any reference anywhere there is something moving. If there are no references or anything moving anywhere, we have nothing to measure.

[Conceptual]

Instead of looking at time as a continuous stream, another way is to look at time is as a quantified entity. In other words, time is a potential like a little packet of energy, but without distance or mass. The time potential of the universe will last its life time. After it is used up, it is gone. The universal time packet was distributed into common matter, i.e., lasts as long as the universe. It is then slowly used up or is expressed by everything that has time in its equation, i.e., energy, velocity, force, etc.

 

Relativity is not a problem with this orientation. Time dilation due to velocity is simply because velocity (ft/sec) contains time potential which is added to the existing time potential. If we decelerate from a relativistic reference the potential energy stored needs to go somewhere. The time potential is probably released as heat.

[eon_rider]

ParticleOne wrote: Time is a totally passive measurement, and can not influence any physical parameter, forces do, and that’s what we are measuring.

 

The above makes sense to me. Sounds right on. Cheers. Interesting!

 

Conceptual Wrote:

In other words, time is a potential like a little packet of energy, but without distance or mass.

 

Very respectfully, I don't think time is a packet of energy.

This, to me, causes confusion as ParticleOne pointed out so well.

Just my non-expert opinion. Feel free to disagree.

 

Time is a man made concept. It's not some kind of independent entity waving it's arms yelling "Hey look at me. I (Mr. Time) exist in this particular immutable way" Time is dependant on a measurer. (us - humans)

 

Even a surface look shows that the word time depends on human language and thought. Also, the concept of time depends on the human brain/body to give it function and meaning. That thing behind the concept that we try to measure is the same.

 

Our measurement, our use of time, and our conceptual understanding of time is a conflation of human neural processes onto a "so-called something" that actual nature is unknowable or just different with out us to give it meaning, form, and function.

 

I'm not saying time does not exist. That's stupid.

I'm saying the larger universe is filtered through the human organism and so what we know about the universe must always be a function or subset of human thought and brain/body structure.

 

So time is a reflection of our physiological processes mixing with the relational universe outside us.

 

Ironically, as we evolve so will the laws of the universe (yes physics too) evolve with us, and the very shape and form of the universe itself change. And I think that will be reflected as new mathmatics, new discoveries, and new scientific insights.

 

Just M.O.

Feel free to comment or not.

Interesting topic.

 

best to all,

 

Eon.

[Conceptual]

The way we measure time is based on quantum increments like seconds or light years. Our perception of time is referenced between changes of state which are also incremental. Packets of energy is the wrong term. Packet of time potential is better since they contain neither distance or mass. These packets tag along with matter and energy. The forces of nature reflect the matter changing distance and mass to change the time potential of mass into energy. This orientation unifies force since all forces process time potential.

 

If we look at a BB expansion, the early universe was too hot for the four forces to process time potential, instead there was only unified force. This was direct conversion from matter to energy and energy to mass, where both were cooling or moving toward lower time potential states. When the temp or equilibrium time potential reached a certain potential other forms of processing came into play.

[ParticleOne]

Here is one for you to answer:

You and a friend are sitting in a hot place with a cube of ice in front of you. You want to leave, but your friend says, let's give it some time and we will watch it melt. And so it does. Question: Was it you giving your time or was it the heat that melted the ice cube?

[Conceptual]

The melting of ice is actually gaining time potential as heat from the environment. While the biochemistry of the body is burning time potential through metabolism. The idea of time in the mind is due to neutron firing which is also burining time potential.

[ParticleOne]

OK, I see that there is a need for a proper explanation of time, this important measurement which is used to calculate a number of physical parameters/occurrences.

 

Eon: - You touched on a very important factor regarding perception of time, which is also why the question of "what is time" has repeatedly been asked over centuries.

 

Initially I will restate what I indicated in a previous post: Time is a human defined measurement of movement (occurrences). Time is a passive measurement without any influence on any physical occurrences.

 

Usage example; Using the natural frequency of a caesium 133 atom (used as standard for time measurements) we can count the number of waves it takes an object to move from point A to point B. If we have measured the weight of the object and the distance between A and B we can say something about the speed and forces involved. The number of waves is what we have defined as time.

 

Now we introduce the totally confusing element needed to make sensible use of our measurement: MEMORY. Memory is not an element in physics per se, but an element we add to make sense of physical parameters. Already counting the number of waves we use math and memory to total the number.

 

In us, humans, the memory element is a built-in part of any evaluation our brain is doing, and there is nothing we can do to stop that function, we might as well try to stop thinking ANYTHING while awake, it can not be done.

 

Imagine if you were walking down the street and you were wiped of memory, you are moving, but have no recollection of where you were a second ago, hence no awareness of time, but you are moving.

 

Then imagine a single point of energy, totally alone in space (universe) nothing else. This point was really full of energy but nothing to use its forces on. (You are not present) And there is no time, not even a little caesium atom.

 

What you automatically think is: But time is passing and the little point is just sitting in space waiting? It is impossible for you to think otherwise. Now, if I removed all memory from your brain, would you know how long the little point has been in space? No. you would not know if time had passed or not, or if there were any time at all, and neither will the point of energy which has no memory.

 

All of a sudden another point of an opposite energy appears out of nothing, some distance away from the first point. They feel attracted to each other and use their forces to meet. Now I will give you some memory and a caesium atom so you can count the waves from the second point appeared and until they clashed. Now you can say: Hey, I’ve got the time, 858 million waves from start of movement till they met! But that’s all you have.

 

Time does not bend, time does not compress or stretch, but how you manipulate the data is a different issue. There are perfect answers to time dilation etc. but that’s for another discussion.