potassium chlorate purification

[weldermanx]

i have succeeded in getting potassium chlorate for dirt cheap, but it is very impure... quite a bit of sulfur contaminents. i need the potassium chlorate for a few experiments but it has to be free of sulfur and other contaminates is there a way other than filturing and boiling off water to purify this?

[xeluc]

I'm saying this without consulting an MSDS or anything, but maybe fractional crystalization? Assuming you have a solvent for these. I'm assuming water would be your solvent.

 

EDIT: I consulted my trusty MSDS to find that Potasium Chlorate disolves 7g in 100 g of water. So basicly. if you disolve your stuff in water, chances are all youll have left is some potasium chlorate in the water. THIS IS ASSUMING your sulfur compounds disolve readily in water. If they also suck at disolving in water, it makes things harder on you.

[woelen]

Dissolve as much as possible of the impure KClO3 in very hot water (almost boiling). Keep the liquid very hot, but not boiling and let insoluble matter settle at the bottom.

 

Next, decant the hot and clear liquid from any insoluble impurities, which settled at the bottom and let the liquid cool down to room temperature.

Crystals of quite pure KClO3 settle at the bottom. Other impurities remain in solution. If the liquid is at room temperature, then put it in a fridge for separating more of the crystals.

 

Decant the liquid and keep the crystals of KClO3 and rinse them briefly with ice cold distilled water and then let them dry at air (may take many hours, but finally they will perfectly dry, because KClO3 is not hygroscopic at all).

[rthmjohn]

I thought KClO3 is hygroscopic. I left my container open overnight and the next day it was all lumpy. Was humidity not the cause?

[woelen]

Of course that does not tell you very much. A car also is not hygroscopic, but on a car, the next day you can see a lot of droplets of water on a cold and bright morning.

 

So, even on a non-hygroscopic compound like KClO3 you can have some 'dew-like' settling of water. The difference with the car is that KClO3 is somewhat soluble, even in the cold, and that makes the material stickly and clumpy.

 

If you, however, dry the material in a warm, dry room, then you'll end up with a perfectly dry powder or crystals.

 

Another reason may be that the KClO3 contains hygroscopic impurities.

[ffsjoe]

Out of curiosity where did you find the KClO3 on the cheap?

[weldermanx]

matchbooks ... yah you can get something like a kg for 12 bucks 49 cents for maybe 50g, the problem is that its pure sulfur impurity... need to get it out along with the red dye... i gotta buy white matches next time. thanks guys keep the sugestions comming their real helpful

[ffsjoe]

ah yeah, i have about 30 grams of the stuff, but havn't got around to extracting the pure KClO3 out. The matches I used say that they dont contain any sulphur so I don't know how to purify them. The other problem also is the red dye, but I can't find any white matches.

 

When I get some time (which won't be soon, exams and soforth) im going to try to convert potassium chloride into chlorate.

[budullewraagh]

i've used matches. it's boring as all hell, but if you want to try, go for it.

 

cut the heads off the matches and put them in water. the sulfur will fall to the bottom and the cardboard will float. the chlorate will go aqueous. remove sulfur and cardboard. distill and crystallize chlorate

[weldermanx]

yah im kind of a low budget chemist. i recently discovered is impossible for a 13 year old to buy pure ptassium chlorate online. by the way the matchbooks from albertsons are white and are like 99 cents for 1000. i filtured most of the sulfur out just how do i get rid of the rest? oh and if anyone knows how to sticka few more oxygen onto the potassium chlorate (for potassium perchlorate) id be happy to know.... i want to make some colored smokebombs and... also have a grudge against a few gummy bears.

[woelen]

yah im kind of a low budget chemist. i recently discovered is impossible for a 13 year old to buy pure ptassium chlorate online. by the way the matchbooks from albertsons are white and are like 99 cents for 1000. i filtured most of the sulfur out just how do i get rid of the rest? oh and if anyone knows how to sticka few more oxygen onto the potassium chlorate (for potassium perchlorate) id be happy to know.... i want to make some colored smokebombs and... also have a grudge against a few gummy bears.

Chlorate can be converted to perchlorate by means of electrolysis, but this must be done with the sodium chlorate solution. Potassium perchlorate simply is not sufficiently soluble and it will be really hard to get perchlorate, free of chlorate if you use potassium chlorate as starting point. I think you need an anode, made of sintered PbO2. For more info see the site of this Dutch guy:

 

http://www.wfvisser.dds.nl/EN/kclox_EN.html

 

It is not really easy, but with some effort and patience, it should be possible.

[weldermanx]

oh well... anyone know how i can get sodium chlorate, getting the potassium from matches is because i cant buy anything else im 13 you need to 18 or over for most of the stuff i want

[YT2095]

electrolysis of NaCl with inert electrodes (carbon is good). or you could just buy it

[woelen]

oh well... anyone know how i can get sodium chlorate, getting the potassium from matches is because i cant buy anything else im 13 you need to 18 or over for most of the stuff i want

Look around on the same site I posted here. It covers the process of making chlorate from NaCl in great detail, including instruction for how to construct an electrolysis cell.

[weldermanx]

intersting... wow thats a curious site, very explosive orientated. ill try that if i can but maybe i should stick to potassium chlorate, i dotn have a lot of time till the show. im the pyrotechnic artist in this stunt me and a few of my friends are doing. i need a good blackpowder recipe using chlorate and/or a good smokebomb recipe with the chlorate if possible my deadline is in 5 days.

[YT2095]

im the pyrotechnic artist

 

this is Odd, before you were a skilled chemist, and after that you were a "Technical advisor"?

 

and yet the very basic of basics, you`re falling flat on your face over

I dunno man, rather you than me, this stinks of trouble looking for somewhere to happen!

[weldermanx]

plz stop it yt ive had enough of your arrogance, im the tech advisor because im not the lead tech for this... mats the lighting guy and will is the electical lineup for the editing.. im the pyrotechnic for this amature group. its jsut a fun bit of chemistry . a bit of a break from all the science fair work ive been doing.

[YT2095]

kettle, pot, and black, springs to mind when You say Arrogance. the fact that you`ve set yourself up as all these things that you like to tell us that you are, then you should know these things already, I`m not the one pretending to be something I`m not, and at least have the humility to admit that, Try it some time!

[weldermanx]

yt do youy always have to find ways to insult people and their intelligence in every thread you take part in. i ask a question and want to recieve an answer not insulting little phrases fromt he moderator here, stick to your job "oh resourceful one" and just give me straight answer thats all i asked for here.

[YT2095]

i need a good blackpowder recipe using chlorate

 

there are non, BP uses potassium nitrate as the oxidiser only. as most pyrotechnicians will tell you.

[woelen]

im the pyrotechnic artist

You should be careful with how you formulate things. I totally understand YT's feelings. Telling that you are the 'skilled chemist', or the 'pyrotechnic artist', while you ask for even the most basic recipe things is not the smartest thing to do. We don't like buzzing like this.

 

Let's put it in other words. From a 'pyrotechnic artist' I would expect beautiful recipes for nice compositions with colors and the like, hands-on experience and the ability to explain that to others, etc. etc. The 'pyrotechnic artist' knows his compositions and recipes and does not need to ask for the basics.

There is nothing wrong with asking for the basics. Even more, I encourage you to ask for help on this forum and people certainly are willing to help you, but from your side, be humble and don't buzz and accept that you still have a lot to learn and present yourself as such.

 

So, I write this, not to piss you off, but in the hope that you learn something....

[rthmjohn]

check out this site, welderman...

 

http://chemistry.about.com/cs/howtos/ht/gunpowder.htm

[weldermanx]

lol i know much more than just the low order stuff. there are just too mnay blackpowder recipes too know them all. i just dont think it would be wise to use something like astrolite-G for a small explosion to kick up dirt. i need to make dirt clods fly in a an explosion, not vapoize them if its too much trouble then ill just go somewhere else, im just using what i have to make thee things and i dont have potassium nitrate.

[woelen]

Keep in mind that KClO3 mixtures are much less stable than KNO3 mixtures. I can tell you from personal experience that a KClO3-mixture ignited spontaneously. Not fun at all!!! Also, KClO3/sulphur mixes may sensitize in due time. Due to slight aerial oxidation, the sulphur forms tiny amounts of acid, and this acid in turn forms unstable compounds, such as ClO2 with KClO3. This may lead to spontaneous ignition of compositions, when they are stored. Especially if you have so-called 'flowers of sulphur' this is a risk to be taken very seriously! KNO3 and KClO4 compositions do not suffer from this insidiously dangerous property. With tiny amounts of acid, these do not form compounds like ClO2, which may lead to spontaneous ignition. So, be careful with KClO3. In fact, KClO3 hardly is used anymore in serious fireworks, KClO4 is the preferred oxidizer or KNO3.

[Von Klemmung]

intersting... wow thats a curious site, very explosive orientated. ill try that if i can but maybe i should stick to potassium chlorate, i dotn have a lot of time till the show. im the pyrotechnic artist in this stunt me and a few of my friends are doing. i need a good blackpowder recipe using chlorate and/or a good smokebomb recipe with the chlorate if possible my deadline is in 5 days.

 

I've been checking your posts to see what the deal was between you and YT.

 

Skilled chemist? Maybe for your age... Not up to me to decide.

 

But you did just describe Wouter Visser's page as VERY EXPLOSIVE ORIENTATED???

 

Say, how much did you actually read?

 

I know this page intimately, and I can tell you that it definitely is NOT "explosive orientated".

 

Do you know explosives, perchance? Primary or secondary?

 

Wouter Visser is genuinely dedicated to fireworks, an art of beauty. Not explosives, an art of power, often misunderstood as an art of anarchy and destruction.

 

I do suspect you will take this as an attack upon you. However, it is not.

 

But I will not have it known, that Wouter Visser has made a "KEWL BOMZ SITE"!

 

Read the other stuff on his page.

 

PS. Black Powder is Saltpetre, Carbon and Sulfur. You want one with a chlorate? Never mix chlorates and Sulfur! Kaboom!