Use it or loose it ?

[studiot]

The last 100 years or so has seen a steady reduction in the mental agility required for ordinary everyday living.

Folks no longer need to work out weights and measures, or calculate prices, totals or change to be given.

Modern 'scales' do all this and more.

You can just wave your phone or RFID card at the bus driver, sometimes you don't even get a ticket or receipt.

Reading is no longer required.

 

No it is conventional wisdom that as we progress through life and grow into old age, physical exercise is important towards retaining good physical health and agility.

 

So the question arises does the same thing occur with mental agility ( I can include mental health if you like but  please don't concentrate on that)

 

In other words should we also use our brains or loose them ?

 

[paulsutton]

Excellent point here,   things can be made too easy so we over rely on tech to do the most basic tasks for us,  then when we need to actually do a task without tech we struggle.

I still prefer, what would be old fashioned paper maps,  the advantage is, if inserted in a clear paper bag,  will also work perfectly in all weathers,  paper maps don't need batteries either.  So being able to think about where places are in relation to current location is helpful.

I think there are also links between delaying conditions such as dementia and keeping the brain active and therefore healthy.   Hence we have brain training activities.  

Paul

[Sensei]

Study humanists, and you will not even be aware of the changes around you..

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Folks no longer need to work out weights and measures, or calculate prices, totals or change to be given.

The girls in the store are always amazed when I tell them they made a mistake.. and gave me too much money..

1 hour ago, studiot said:

Reading is no longer required.

..Sorry, I don't understand you? Can you use ChatGPT to translate it for me, please?

 

[geordief]

19 minutes ago, Sensei said:

humanists

study  humanists?

Do you mean "study humanity "?

But I agree it is possible to have a satisfying  life on your own terms but if you are  too caught up in others' priorities   your life can go past  without  much benefit accruing. 

 

"To live outside the law you must be honest"

Edited April 22, 2023 by geordief

[Phi for All]

4 hours ago, studiot said:

The last 100 years or so has seen a steady reduction in the mental agility required for ordinary everyday living.

Has it really? Or have we instead seen a shifting of focus as those requirements change? Is it a reduction in mental agility to use a computer or calculator if that technology gives you the time and ability to figure out much more complex problems?

I too lament the shift from reading written words to watching videos of people saying those words. Right now, someone still has to write those words in the first place, but AI shows us that reading is losing some of its value when you may be wasting your time reading some bot-cobbled rhetoric. But I also think this is a sentiment every generation has, that they're losing essential skills because our inventions make hard things easier, and the reality is that we just use the extra time we save to focus on new hard things to figure out.

[exchemist]

5 hours ago, studiot said:

The last 100 years or so has seen a steady reduction in the mental agility required for ordinary everyday living.

Folks no longer need to work out weights and measures, or calculate prices, totals or change to be given.

Modern 'scales' do all this and more.

You can just wave your phone or RFID card at the bus driver, sometimes you don't even get a ticket or receipt.

Reading is no longer required.

 

No it is conventional wisdom that as we progress through life and grow into old age, physical exercise is important towards retaining good physical health and agility.

 

So the question arises does the same thing occur with mental agility ( I can include mental health if you like but  please don't concentrate on that)

 

In other words should we also use our brains or loose them ?

 

On the contrary it seems to me that modern life requires mastery of an ever-expanding battery of computerised tasks, mostly to be done on your own without help. So mental agility is still needed but of a different sort.

However I have certainly read of the importance of exercising the mind as one grows old. That’s one reason why I sing and why I do sudoku after lunch and wordle at teatime. And hang around science forums of course. 

[iNow]

6 hours ago, studiot said:

should we also use our brains or loose them ?

Yes. Without question. The brain is just another muscle to be exercised in this context. 

[exchemist]

5 hours ago, paulsutton said:

Excellent point here,   things can be made too easy so we over rely on tech to do the most basic tasks for us,  then when we need to actually do a task without tech we struggle.

I still prefer, what would be old fashioned paper maps,  the advantage is, if inserted in a clear paper bag,  will also work perfectly in all weathers,  paper maps don't need batteries either.  So being able to think about where places are in relation to current location is helpful.

I think there are also links between delaying conditions such as dementia and keeping the brain active and therefore healthy.   Hence we have brain training activities.  

Paul

I’m certainly with you 100% on maps. Like you I feel a need to know where I am going in relation to other places. I also like to have a mental picture of the journey. It makes me feel I am in charge rather than blindly following instructions. 

[Genady]

In this light, why is the brain teasers and puzzles one of the least popular forums here?

[geordief]

56 minutes ago, Genady said:

In this light, why is the brain teasers and puzzles one of the least popular forums here?

For me (and my fellow sloths) it must be because they are too hard.

[studiot]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Yes. Without question. The brain is just another muscle to be exercised in this context. 

Thanks to all responding.

I obviously didn't bring out my point that old farts have grown up needing to exercise their brains, but yours folks less so.

So the question might be rephrased, should they be concerned ?

But please discuss around the subject, that was the idea.

[CharonY]

I think it is impossible not to use the brain. But it is a matter of for what?

I do think that reading ability has changed, on average. But not because folks are not reading, but rather what they are reading. The trend seems to go toward a lot but short texts, so folks may be very good in following many disparate threads, but struggle with more complex, in-depth texts, for example.

I also have little doubt that basic arithmetic skills have degraded (getting the average student to calculate the molarity of a solution is a rather painful exercise). With age, things become less flexible, in part because our brain has been exercised in certain patterns. 

But thinking a bit more regarding habits of the newest generation (i.e. growing up with cellphones and the internet) there is of course always the risk that the older generation just doesn't "get" the changes and extrapolate things needlessly. It has happened with all new technologies, for example. On the other hand, looking at the generations of college students, I do think that I see several shifts, some probably accelerated by the COVID-19 pandemic. 

[iNow]

13 hours ago, studiot said:

should they be concerned ?

Can they do something about it? If so, then there’s no need for anxiety or concern. 

If they can’t do anything about, then anxiety and concern are a waste of time anyway and should be abandoned. 

When something is deleterious to our wellbeing, we should seek to amend it, but not being able to mentally calculate huge equations without help really isn’t a problem if we’re spending our days fishing or babysitting a grandchild. 

[TheVat]

Cognitive skills vary a lot in how much maintenance they need.  When young, I read books - and still do so.  But if take a break from books, say a month or two, I resume reading easily.  If I take such a long break from piano, my playing suffers terribly.  Same with chess.  Some mental activity involve a lot of intricate tasks and to be any good at the activity you have to stay at the very top of your abilities.  (physics and higher math I would guess is like piano, you must keep at it almost daily) Others seem to rest on skills with more shelf life.  And almost all skills benefit from attention span, so obsessive personality types generally have an easier path to developing notable cognitive skills.  If they are hunter-gatherers, they become good animal trackers or mushroom finders; if they are modern people, they become scientists, musicians, coders, etc.

[Genady]

9 hours ago, TheVat said:

Cognitive skills vary a lot in how much maintenance they need.  When young, I read books - and still do so.  But if take a break from books, say a month or two, I resume reading easily.  If I take such a long break from piano, my playing suffers terribly.  Same with chess.  Some mental activity involve a lot of intricate tasks and to be any good at the activity you have to stay at the very top of your abilities.  (physics and higher math I would guess is like piano, you must keep at it almost daily) Others seem to rest on skills with more shelf life.  And almost all skills benefit from attention span, so obsessive personality types generally have an easier path to developing notable cognitive skills.  If they are hunter-gatherers, they become good animal trackers or mushroom finders; if they are modern people, they become scientists, musicians, coders, etc.

Hmm... I don't know regarding coding. I've just written a little program today (https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/131412-puzzle-for-the-day/?do=findComment&comment=1238294) after more than 20 years break. It felt like I never stopped.

[iNow]

On 4/22/2023 at 6:31 PM, studiot said:

please discuss around the subject

One thing that bothers me somewhat is how our lives are so online now, even at work for those with remote working opportunities, that socialization in real life is falling aside.

We’re forgetting how to get along. How to work through minor disagreements. How to associate with those who fall outside our tribe. How to think differently and challenge our own thoughts. How even at grocery stores we no longer have to interact with a cashier, opting instead for self-checkouts.  

This came up in my own thoughts in context of americas gun problem (not the subject here!) and how even the most minor of scuffles leads people to reach for a gun instead of a conversation or outstretched hand… but I wonder too how able and socially competent todays kids will be when they age since so much of what they do is online. 

We seem to be losing our ability to work together, or at least don’t seem to be practicing it enough lately…

But then again, perhaps all young men transitioning into old-farts across the generations feel this way and this category of concerns are a regular part of aging… much like how “all modern music is crap and they just don’t play or write songs like they used to!”

Edited April 24, 2023 by iNow

[TheVat]

11 hours ago, Genady said:

Hmm... I don't know regarding coding. I've just written a little program today (https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/131412-puzzle-for-the-day/?do=findComment&comment=1238294) after more than 20 years break. It felt like I never stopped.

That's good to hear.  Perhaps coding skills are retained by doing other tasks employing logic, math, recursion, looping, etc.  

And so much depends on attention span and level of fascination when first learning a skill.  I loved astronomy as a teen, joined a club, and it surprises me how much is retained.  

 

[Genady]

32 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Perhaps coding skills are retained by doing other tasks employing logic, math, recursion, looping, etc.

IOW, thinking  

33 minutes ago, TheVat said:

so much depends on attention span and level of fascination when first learning a skill. 

Absolutely! Agree 100%.

36 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I loved astronomy as a teen, joined a club

Me too. Maybe a bit earlier. Been a member of Baku youth astronomy club between about 9 and 14 yo. Wonderful lifelong memories.