making sulfuric acid

[weldermanx]

hey i head somewhere that you can make sulfuric acid from sodium bisulfate... this is pretty impure, does anyone have any other ways to make sulfuric acid or find a way to perfect this method?

[woelen]

Have a look at this. Lots of information on H2SO4. It definitely is not that easy to prepare in your kitchen. Be careful!

 

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=510

[Alchemist]

If you have any SO3 you mix it in water to get H2SO4:

 

SO3 + H2O -> H2SO4

[woelen]

If you have any SO3 you mix it in water to get H2SO4:

 

SO3 + H2O -> H2SO4

Obtaining SO3 even is more difficult. Where making H2SO4 is quite hard for the home chemist' date=' making SO3 is next to impossible for the home chemist. On sciencemadness there are some people working on that, but it is incredible difficult, the stuff is incredibly corrosive and concentrated H2OS4 is just a children's toy, compared to pure SO3.

 

See this link.

 

If you add SO3 to water, then it detonates! In industry this is not the way of making H2SO4! They add the SO3 to H2SO4, such that it is diluted and then they add water to the SO3/H2SO4-mix (called oleum).

 

As you can see, making H2SO4 and SO3 is not easy at all. Fortunately, H2SO4 is fairly easy to get your hand on. Getting SO3 is not easy at all, and I must say, that is for good reasons! Having lots of SO3/oleum around would be a MAJOR risk for the average home chemist.

[Primarygun]

Obtaining SO3 even is more difficult. Where making H2SO4 is quite hard for the home chemist, making SO3 is next to impossible for the home chemist. On sciencemadness there are some people working on that, but it is incredible difficult, the stuff is incredibly corrosive and concentrated H2OS4 is just a children's toy, compared to pure SO3.

yes.

High temperature and expensive catalyst is involved.

By the way, I am thinking of oxidizing sulphite ion into sulphate ion with H+ given out by bubbling oxygen into it.

Is this possible to make a dilute sulphuric acid?

[YT2095]

the only problem there is that the Sulphite ion doesn`t exist on it`s own, it would have to be <something>sulphite, like Sodium for instance, and then when you oxidise it, you`de get <something>SulphATE.

 

you Can oxidise SO2 with Hydrogen Peroxide to make weak sulphuric acid though

[raivo]

Very old way of making sulphuric acid is by heating FeSO4 * 7H2O to decomposition and collecting vapors. Salt loses crystallisation water at first and after that gives of sulfur oxides including SO3. This is rather expensive way and product will be contaminated but it may still be useable for small experiments. Have not tried it myself though.

[budullewraagh]

SO3 can be obtained easier from S+O2-->SO2

SO2+O2----(V2O5, 450 or so celsius)---->SO3

 

but yeah, it's pretty scary. i remember when i first opened a bottle of H2SO4 with 10% SO3 in it that came fuming out. nearly dropped the bottle

[Alchemist]

You can always buy diluted H2SO4 at texaco or at a place that they sell carbatteries, just ask for (car)battery-acid. To make the conc. higher you can just boil it. Do this in a well ventilated area, namely outside if possible cause the fumes are VERY POISONOUS!

[weldermanx]

i have recently discovered that it is impossible for a 13 year old to buy sulfuric acid... i have sodium bisulfate just where do i go from there?

[xeluc]

What about drain cleaner? I'm pretty sure that'd work...

[budullewraagh]

"i have recently discovered that it is impossible for a 13 year old to buy sulfuric acid..."

use parents

[weldermanx]

parents are useless things they just stand around and ask questions. anyway my dads way too protective with his credit card online unless it has paypal... u got any good online chemical suppliers that use paypal?

[jdurg]

Check out 'Chemsavers' on E-Bay.

[Rincewind SW]

...concentrated H2OS4 is just a children's toy, compared to pure SO3.

 

Yes, much easier to just buy H2SO4 I guess. I don't buy chemicals, not that into this sorta thing but it does interest me, must say. A-Level chemistry is tempting. In High School (English) we all are a little obsessed with blowing stuff up. We never get to ourselves but have indeed watched teachers blow stuff up which is fun. Y'know, fun experiments like methane bubbles and stuff. In blowing stuff up... can't remember any chemicals offhand. And wow, I've REALLY digressed.

[woelen]

parents are useless things they just stand around and ask questions. anyway my dads way too protective with his credit card online unless it has paypal... u got any good online chemical suppliers that use paypal?

Is your dad concerned about the creditcard (fraud and so on) or doesn't he want you to play around with (potentially dangerous) chems?

 

If the first is the case, then there are other ways to get ahold of chems, with the help of your dad (eBay indeed is a good source). If the second is the case, then you have bad luck and you'd better wait for a few years or try to explain what you really want with the chems.

[weldermanx]

you cant sell sulfuric acid on ebay and im a skilled chemist and so is my dad, i may be young but that doenst make me incompetent to be included, second im not playing around with these chemicals, i happen to need them for about 30 different experiments and a fuel cell project. now can you tell me how to make sulfuric acid from sodium bisulfate.

[YT2095]

im a skilled chemist and so is my dad..... now can you tell me how to make sulfuric acid from sodium bisulfate.

 

ROFLOL )

 

ya just gotta love that statement aint ya

[woelen]

you cant sell sulfuric acid on ebay and im a skilled chemist and so is my dad,

Wow, how skilled you are ! If you really are 13 then I would say that for your age (compared to the great majority of 13-year old people) you indeed are very skilled (this is a compliment, really). But looking at it from an absolute point of view I'm inclined to say that you still have to learn a lot. This is not meant as an insult, but please let's put things in the right perspective. People's real strength often is in their ability to recognize their own limitations.

 

i may be young but that doenst make me incompetent to be included, second im not playing around with these chemicals, i happen to need them for about 30 different experiments and a fuel cell project.

I did not mean to crank you with my remarks. With the words 'playing around' I meant 'doing experiments'.

 

now can you tell me how to make sulfuric acid from sodium bisulfate.

Forget about it. Even with a propane torch at full blast you'll not be able to decompose the NaHSO4 further than Na2S2O7, when you heat the stuff in a crucible. This is REALLY difficult.

 

At just over 100 C you get the following:

 

2NaHSO4 ---> Na2S2O7 + H2O

 

At a MUCH higher temperature (near 1000 C) the following happens:

 

Na2S2O7 ---> Na2SO4 + SO3

 

This SO3 then needs to be added to water, but this is increadibly dangerous. Even a single drop of cold SO3, added to a small amount of water will result in detonation and shattering of the container. How do you think you will collect the SO3?

 

No, making H2SO4 (or SO3) from NaHSO4 simply is not feasible for the home chemist. This has eluded even the real brave ones from a site like this

 

But now the other thing. What experiments do you want to do with H2SO4? A solution of NaHSO4 acts as a solution of H2SO4 in water, with an equimolar amount of Na2SO4 dissolved as well. For almost all aqueous reactions, requiring dilute H2SO4, NaHSO4 works equally well. In fact, I use this stuff myself very often at places, where H2SO4 is demanded, simply because it is much easier and safer to handle. Only experiments, requiring concentrated H2SO4 cannot be conducted with NaHSO4.

[weldermanx]

sorry about that ive just been kicked out of other forums cause of my age and am tired of getting taunted for it. and anyway i have an oxyacetelyne torch. ive been to the state science fair twice and am 13 and in senior chemistry. i cant do crap in my home lab because my parents wont buy anything online for me and you cant get anyhting in stores thats good. nothing better than maybe occassionly KOH. i have to make everyhting myself, now i need help making sulfuric acid for a fuel cell catalyst for sci fair and for a few other experiments where the chemicals need a reagent. i have about 2kg of sodium bisulfate and an acetylene torch. can you plz tell me how to do this, ive tried to work this out on paper but i keep gettinfg fried answers. can you help me plz witha straightforward answer.

[weldermanx]

thanks for the more straight forward answers i have a kevlar plastic container that i do not believe will shatter with the SO3 woelen your a nice guy its just a few other people on this site who are a bit too arrogant for their own good, judging peoples knowledge and experience before they know the truth.

 

back to the sulfuric acid... the atmosphere i take it for this reaction to occur should be devoid of O2? since this is decompsition, the supply of sodium bisulfate is a pool chemical. thanks WOELEN

[H2SO4]

If you bubble sulfur dioxide through H2O2 it should give you H2SO4. This was how i first made my first batch of H2SO4.

[rthmjohn]

You need H2SO4 that bad? Just go to the local hardware store and buy some drain opener. They sell this nice product called ROOTO. It's very pure and VERY high concentration sulfuric acid. It would save you all the trouble of actually making H2SO4... unless of course you wanted to do so...

[YT2095]

few other people on this site who are a bit too arrogant for their own good' date=' judging peoples knowledge and experience before they know the truth.

[/quote']

 

well when you consider that Others your age were doing the same thing and after decades have progressed somewhat, and yet STILL wouldn`t dream of calling themselves a "Skilled Chemist" you wonder where the Real Arrogance lies!

 

come back down the earth with the rest of us lesser mortals!

[weldermanx]

it always seems yt that you finda way to insult me in every thread i create, i was not saying that i am a skilled chemist in general, just in my age group. to top this off i come to this site for help from the intellectuals who tend to hang around here and get insulted and taunted by the one person who is supposed to be moderating the threads for innappropriate posts. why dont we cut this down to business instead of chatting and trading insults YT? i need sulfuric acid in a home laboratory i cant buy it froma chemistry store for my age and would liek to make it or buy it some othere way can someone help me?