making sulfuric acid

[Cesium]

Hey thanks guys, I'll try both set-ups next time I work with gases.

[woelen]

I was flipping through a very old (published in 1879) and found something relevant to this thread. In regards to NaHSO4 or as the book calls it "Hydrogen Sodium Sulphate", "like the corresponding potassium salt, it is decomposed by alcohol at once into sulphuric acid and the normal salt".

I did the experiment, but nothing happens . I first dehydrated the NaHSO4 by heating it, until it melts and does not bubble anymore (usually it comes as the one-hydrate, NaHSO4.H2O). I did not heat so much that is becomes Na2S2O7, that requires much more heating than driving off the water.

 

Next, I let it cool down and crushed the dehydrated NaHSO4 and then added 95% ethanol to it. The quote, which mentions that it is decomposed at once by alcohol apparently is false, or I (we???) are missing something. I let the mix in the stoppered test tube for two days right now, and still nothing has dissolved, nothing has happened. When I add a few drops of concentrated H2SO4 to ethanol, then the liquid fairly quickly turns orange, and lateron it turns red/brown. This is due to dehydration, accompanied by condensation.

 

I'll let the mix stand for another few days and next weekend I'll try whether careful heating does something.

[bob000555]

Perhaps it means rubbing alcohol?

[Cesium]

Doubtful, it uses the word "alcohol" in many other instances in the book where isopropanol would make no sense.

[woelen]

I still have the stuff standing, and still nothing has changed. So, I think that this reference is mistaken. It now already is standing for 4 days.

[bob000555]

As for the SO2+H2O2 reaction, couldn’t you just drop a lump of sulfur into concentrated h2o2(not the drug store verity). The H2O2 being a strong oxidizer should oxidize the sulfur sending SO2 into the surrounding H2O2 to create H2SO4 the net reaction being S+(2)H2O2->SO2+H2O and SO2+H2O2->H2SO4. The only problem I can think of is of the sulfur floats on the H2O2 in witch case you should be able to push it down with a metal stick. If there is insignificant purser to keep the SO2 in solution simply placing a lid on the container should work.

[woelen]

No, this does not work. Solid sulphur is quite inert and does not react with H2O2, not even with the strong stuff. Only the strongest "wet" oxidizers are capable of oxidizing sulphur at room temperature. Even concentrated HNO3 cannot do the job at room temperature. When it is heated, then the reaction proceeds slowly.

[YT2095]

even Mn2O7 won`t have any noticable reaction with solid Sulpher as tried here: http://www.scienceforums.net/showpost.php?p=264108&postcount=12

 

and as wet oxidisers go, Mn2O7 would certainly be in my Top 10

[woelen]

One wet oxidizer which does dissolve sulphur is a solution of the salt O2PtF6 in anhydrous HF. This salt has the cation O2(+) and the anion PtF6(-). O2(+) is a sufficiently strong oxidizing cation, which does oxidize sulphur. It also oxidizes water, hence the need of anhydrous HF.

 

Just pick up a few liters of this at the local hardware store and try it with your flowers of sulphur

[bob000555]

That makes no scene to me, if it cant be oxidized by those strong oxidizers why would it be oxidized by air(burn) when air is only ~10% oxygen?

[calbiterol]

Bob, I might be delving into something I don't know that much about here, but I don't think air was the oxidizer...

[YT2095]

Oxygen is a Very Good Oxidiser (that`s where we get the word Oxidise from).

Air 21% Oxygen btw.

 

you must also take into account the temprature this reaction takes place at, the Sulpher actualy Burns with a blue flame.

 

the other stuff would probably oxidise it too if it were 1000+c

[TATER]

I thought sulfur helped the oxidiser activate as a secondary oxidiser

[bob000555]

I thought sulfur helped the oxidiser activate as a secondary oxidiser

No…sulfur is an odd chemical being in the same periodic group as oxygen it is an oxidizer as in the classic reaction of powdered sulfur with iron filings(S + Fe + ->FeS). But it can also act as a reducer when exposed to a more powerful oxidizer such as KClO3 the reaction there being 2KClO3+3S->3SO2 + 2KCl. When you talk about a “secondary oxidizer” your probably thinking of the simplified explanation of black powder.

[painkiller]

sorry for digging up this old topic..

 

I just made my first concetrated sulfuric acid from car battery fluid.

I condacted the experiment outside but during the process and just about before the fumes turn white i sensed a weird burn in my nose and my throat and i started coughing for 5minutes.

I was 5-6m away from the boiling mixture !

 

Does anyone know what is the white smoke that come out when you boil H2SO4 ?

 

Is there a way to prevent the release of fumes into the atmosphere... by bubbling the fumes through a NaOH solution for example ?

 

I also threw some Copper into concentrated H2SO4 but i didnt get the blue color that you get when you add copper into HNO3.

Why so ? does anyone know ?

H2SO4 cant oxidise copper ?

[YT2095]

you could bubble it through NaOH soln sure, it will act as a scubber.

the "fumes" were vaporised H2SO4 and other oxides of sulpher.

 

Odd that you should mention about the copper in H2SO4, I`ve never got it to react either, and was having a discussion with someone the other day that said he can do it, apparently Ariel oxygen in the acid will assist the reaction, however I`ve never managed to accomplish this either without either passing a current through it or using the Oxide of copper CuO and heating them together.

[Kelaniz]

Has anyone tried the method where you layer equal parts Sulfur and KNO3 (or NaNO3) and bubble the gases through water? That seems to be a really simple way, provided you have the right labware, and doesn't require temperatures higher than what a basic alcohol lamp can provide.

 

Kel

[Melvin]

Has anyone tried the method where you layer equal parts Sulfur and KNO3 (or NaNO3) and bubble the gases through water? That seems to be a really simple way, provided you have the right labware, and doesn't require temperatures higher than what a basic alcohol lamp can provide.

 

Kel

 

I've tried that method before. I suspended a copper endcap with the NaNO3 and sulfur inside a 3-liter soda bottle (2-liter should work just as well). I put about a cup of water in the bottom. I used a propane torch to light the S/NaNO3 mixture a placed the endcap into the bottle and screwed the cap on tightly. The bottle filled up with SO2 and NO2 gas. After about two hours, I removed the liquid and tested the pH, getting somewhere around a 2.

[sfpublic]

You people are such pessimistic losers, you call yourselves senior chemists? Yet you spend

so much time attacking a curious 13-year-old who wants to make H2S04, pfftt... If you were

a true chemist you would never even think about trying to tell somebody something is impossible,

you would extract joy from telling people how to do things, no matter how dangerous, the only

reason i can think of in terms of you people telling someone not to try and make sulfuric acid

is because you yourselves once tried to make up a batch but failed miserably, now in your worthless

freetime you spend your fatass days sitting on a computer typing away insults at people who want to

try and accomplish something that you failed at. You make me sick.

 

And for the record, making sulfuric acid is not that difficult at all, you simply need hydrogen

peroxide, and an appropriate setup where you can pump Sulfur Dioxide gas into the liquid, and you

will get sulfuric acid, the purity obtained depends on the purity of the Peroxide, but if you have

a low purity peroxide then you can increase the purity in many ways, my favorite way is by sparging.

 

Sulfuric acid was first synthesized in around 800ad i think, by a Persian chemist, if you morons can't

emulate a 1200 year old procedure in your own modern living-enviroment then i wouldn't even consider

your chemical-knowledge to be on par with a first grader. Stupid old men. But i forgot, if anybody tries

the experiments that you so miserably failed at all your life they will blow there eye out or cause

themselves immense damage, because they too are retards like yourselves, right? You just continue

sitting there living your fatass-days away by believing that your something, spitting out words that

are designed to try and make you look like you are actually something, something other than the nothing

that you are and always will be, unlike people who aren't afraid to try, and put there life at risk in

the process.

 

Furthermore, for the record, i have not tried this, but if you look at the MSDS for Sodium Bisulphate

you will see that according to it when Sodium Bisulphate is dissolved in Ethanol it disintegrates into

free Sulfuric acid and Sodium Sulfate.

[John Cuthber]

If you were as clever as you seem to think then you would have noticed the trick with NaHSO4 and alcohol had already been mentioned, as, of course, has the oxidation of SO2 with H2O2.

[thedarkshade]

Sorry if I post anything mentioned before but it's just too much to read.

The production of sulphuric as goes as it follows.

 

You first need [ce]SO2[/ce] which you can get by:

 

[ce]2S + O2 -> 2SO2[/ce] or

[ce]4FeS2 + 11O2 -> 2Fe2O3 + 8SO2[/ce]

 

then you need [ce]SO3[/ce] which you get from:

 

[ce]2SO2 + O2 -> 2SO3[/ce] in this case you need a catalyst which is [ce]V2O5[/ce]

 

and the third phase is getting the acid, but you do not directly put into reaction [ce]SO3[/ce] with [ce]H2O[/ce] due to loss of [ce]SO3[/ce] (AFAIK). It goes like this:

 

[ce]SO3 + H2SO4 -> H2S2O7[/ce] and then 'tame' it with water

 

[ce]H2S2O7 + H2O -> 2H2SO4 [/ce] and this way [ce]H2SO4[/ce] is highly concentrated.

[unknown002]

Hey people, i just joined this forum, this is quite a fascinating site!

 

Ok, back to sulfuric acid.

 

I heated acid from battery until it starts smell ( SO3 came out, right?), i tried it on some tissue and did not burn it (guess around 90%~), so i used some chunks of anhydrous magnesium sulfate in a liebig distiller which sits on top of a small flask with the acid and starts to heating it, hoped to extract the water so i dont lose the SO3. it didnt work out well, so i just did a test batch and added anhydrous magnesium sulfate directly to the acid. it did fuzzed a bit and i think its the water crystallisation of mgso4...

 

So now i ended up around 96%~ acid since it slightly burns tissue when cooled down. But how do i separate the MgSO4.7H2O??

Do i distill the mixture to like 330~C and bubble it through another batch of 90% acid?

or is there otherways.

Thanks:confused:

[YT2095]

filter it through some rock-wool.

[hydraliskdragon]

This is a old topic but I still have one question to ask.

 

Would someone elaborate the setup appature for bubbling SO2 in to H2O2?

 

How would you burn the sulfur and direct the sulfuric dioxide into H2O2?

 

Regards,

 

Tim

[frosch45]

You will probably want to use glass tubing (at least where the tubing will come in contact with the H2O2/H2SO4, otherwise, though not ideal, rubber would suffice) because H2SO4 will attack rubber tubing.

 

Have an earlenmeyer flask or similar flask with your sulfur in it. You are then going to want an inlet for a small pencil torch to fit through the stopper and into the flask. Have an outlet of your tubing through the same stopper that will lead to another erlenmeyer flask (glass tubing needed here) and have your glass tubing going through the stopper and down toward the very bottom of your H2O2 sample. In this same stopper, you will need to have an outlet (second open hole in the stopper) incase some of the gas does not react for some reason like low concentration of H2O2 or similar.