making sulfuric acid

[jdurg]

You can't. You either have to buy it, or you have to set up a very expensive (I.E. in excess of 100,000 dollars) generation apparatus. If your parents won't let you buy it, then they sure as hell won't let you build the apparatus, and neither will your town.

[woelen]

I would just say, forget about making H2SO4 from NaHSO4. If you have read the thread on scimad, then I think you've seen that this is REALLY hard. I myself have quite some experience at a hobby level with chemistry, but this is one of the things which I do not even think of starting now, although SO3 is one of the reagents which I think is very interesting . Simply too dangerous and it requires too much apparatus. Don't do this.

 

The other suggestion with bubbling SO2 through H2O2 also is a nice one. If you have access to sodium or potassium metabisulfite (you can buy that at stores for making wine, as a disinfectant and preservative) and you add that to conc. HCl and heat the solution, then SO2 will be bubbling out of the solution. Pass that gas through a solution of H2O2 (preferrably appr. 10% H2O2 by weight). This yields dilute H2SO4. Next boil until the liquid gives some white fumes. At that point the excess H2O2 is decomposed and what remains is H2SO4 of high concentration. As you see, this process also is quite complicated, but for the home chemist with some simple glassware and some rubber heat-resistant tubing it is feasible. Beware, SO2 is a very pungent gas! Try not to inhale much of the gas, it has a choking smell!

 

Yet another time: please do not try the decomposition of NaHSO4, I mean this!. I would not like you to have a serious accident. Hassling around with SO3 only is for the most brave and most equipped of us (and I must admit, I'm not among them ).

[budullewraagh]

the SO2+H2O2 idea is definitely good, but i would imagine that it could get pretty scary, as peroxymonosulfuric acid could be produced if there is an excess of H2O2

[woelen]

the SO2+H2O2 idea is definitely good, but i would imagine that it could get pretty scary, as peroxymonosulfuric acid could be produced if there is an excess of H2O2

Don't worry about that. Only at very high concentrations of acid (50+ % H2SO4) this may become a risk. That's why I told to start from 10% H2O2. This does not lead to H2SO5 and on the other hand gives a solution of reasonable concentration.

[rthmjohn]

Seriously, welderman... just buy a damn bottle of sulfuric acid from the HARDWARE store. You don't have to go to a CHEMICAL store. And if you wanted it that badly, I'm sure, being as smart as you claim to be, that you could easily find a way to work around legalities... (hint hint) But I'm not suggesting that you do anything illegal... nope...

[weldermanx]

nah its just they wouldnt sell it to me and the dont sell it at our hardware store anyway ill try to use the sodium bisulfate as a subsitute ill just have to scratch the experiments using concentrated sulfuric acid thanks guys (YT discluded) youve beena great help

[akcapr]

3 ways to get it not including making:

-harcware store

-hardware/rental place- battery acid

- Or buy it online - the alchymist has some good acid

[budullewraagh]

welderman, stop being a jackass.

 

good chemists know that bisulfate is not a substitute for sulfuric acid.

 

good chemists are resourceful and know how to make/obtain chemicals and precursors. if you want sulfuric acid, find a car battery, open it and filter out the lead sulfate. also, you could ask your local hardware store owner to order rooto for you. you could also buy rooto online. you could also order it from any of a number of websites, and yes, many will send it directly to your door, no questions asked. if you need a credit card or someone over 18, ask someone. good chemists are 18+ and/or know someone 18+ years old.

 

and really, abandon the pomposity, child

[H2SO4]

Serously, weldermanx, i remember seeing some of your first post and ever since, occassionaly you can be a huge jackass. I don't get whats so hard, I made a thread on making H2SO4 long time ago, and people told me to go to the auto parts sotore and buy some pure, clean H2SO4 as battery acid. So go do it. I don.t see whats so hard about asking a parent to buy you a chemical for your chemistry needs.

 

 

And don't think im an adult telling you these remarks, Im turning 15 in a week, unlike budellwrago who i believe is 23 or something along those lines.

[budullewraagh]

hi, im 17

[Von Klemmung]

Hi, I'm 38 and three days.

 

I've had enough scathing chastisements from Budullewraaagh to have become a believer.

 

What Bud sez' goes!

 

And please don't think that YT goes "newbie-hunting". From what I've seen, he might zero in on a persons manners or somesuch, but NOT on the person, personally.

 

I'd go for the easy way out. Battery acid! It's available in drugstores even here in Denmark.

 

Otherwise, it's available at dumps or at mechanics' scrapheaps inside car batteries. Filter and boil. Don't smell!

[jdurg]

Take a look in Wal-Mart as well. I was just looking for a good source of HCl, and while checking out the plumbing department I saw a whole bunch of drain cleaners with the ingredients as follows:

 

Active Ingredients: 98% Sulfuric Acid

Inactive Ingredients: Water.

 

So you can get some good stuff there.

[budullewraagh]

oh hot. what were they sold as? (brands, names, etc)

[H2SO4]

kinda funny how another powerful drain cleaner is NaOH. Complete oposite PH. We need to make up our minds on whats a better drain cleaner. Ill say NaOH

[rthmjohn]

I find it VERY hard to believe that youre hardware store doesn't carry any drain opener. Go anywhere where drain opener is sold... doesn't have to be a hardware store. Get an older friend to buy some for you...

[YT2095]

the NaOH will obviously be used first in serious blockages, it`ll dissolve or saponify most all organics (fat and hair mats and bits of veg that gets stuck etc...)

after that`s all washed away the main cause of this blocking will be "lime scale", it forms sharp edges that these other materials can catch on and adhere to, for lime scale very often a Phosphoric acid based cleaner is used, rarely is Sulphuric acid used as the calcium contributor is still insoluble as the Sulphate form too. Phosphoric is the prefered acid based cleaner, HCl is the next best.

 

TNT`s not too bad either, but best reserved for REALLY bad blockages and pref someone elses drain

[Hephaestus]

Try buying conc H2SO4 OTC in Australia! The rules are ever increasing each day. HCl fine, bisulfite fine, NMP fine. Acetone, methanol, permangenate, H2SO4, S, grrr! Pb imputies are not acceptable.

 

Is conc "mineral acids" H2SO4? It's the only stuff that seems close. I thought I'd ask before purchasing

[RyanJ]

Try buying conc H2SO4 OTC in Australia! The rules are ever increasing each day. HCl fine' date=' bisulfite fine, NMP fine. Acetone, methanol, permangenate, H2SO4, S, grrr! Pb imputies are not acceptable.

 

Is conc "mineral acids" H2SO4? It's the only stuff that seems close. I thought I'd ask before purchasing[/quote']

 

Go to your local car service store, buy the acid they use in car betteries - that pure [ce]H2SO4[/ce] for you

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[[w00t]]

Go to your local car service store' date=' buy the acid they use in car betteries - that pure [ce']H2SO4[/ce] for you

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

 

thats only ~33% btw (ofcourse it can be concentrated)

[RyanJ]

'']thats only ~33% btw (ofcourse it can be concentrated)

 

Yea I know, concentrating it is still much easier than trying to buy it in most places though

 

Cheers,

 

Ryan Jones

[YT2095]

actualy I get all mine at cost from a place that services Forklift truck batteries and get a 3 litre bottle for a quid (£1).

I don`t mind paying for that and concentrationg small amounts of it myself, probably costs me a few pennies to conc the whole 3 litres!

I flatly refuse to pay the prices places charge for ready conc acid!

[budullewraagh]

i think it would be interesting to make a generator using burning S and a V2O5 catalyst to form SO3, which bubbles into water

[Hephaestus]

C'mon enough of this SO3 in H2O. I want my fingers and eyes. It's as bad as acetone peroxide. I tried the synthesis of H2SO4 with sodium bisulfite, HCl and H2O2. It works a treat. Expensive though. 100mL of 98% H2SO4 cost me $AU10. Not worth it.

 

Any advances on what "mineral acid" is. I know it can be either HCl, H2SO4, H3PO4 etc. I'll check it next week if you have no ideas.

 

Thanks for the forklift idea. My cousin's a mechanic, he'll fix me up.

 

Sticking to the thread, any other means of preping H2SO4?

[raivo]

Why not buy some of that mineral acid? It should not be hard to do some tests that will show what it is.

[budullewraagh]

hephaestus, i only mentioned the S oxidation+hydrolysis because it's madly cheap. if you do it properly, the SO3+H2O won't blow up.

 

mineral acids are arrhenius acids that arent organic. this is inclusive of H2SO4, HNO3, H3PO4, HF, HCl, HMnO4, H2CrO4, HClO4, and a host of others.