Quantum gravity simplified.

[Mordred]

1 hour ago, MJ kihara said:

From the Wikipedia geodesic article.......

 

For a space-like geodesic through two events, there are always nearby curves which go through the two events that have either a longer or a shorter proper length than the geodesic, even in Minkowski space. In Minkowski space, the geodesic will be a straight line. Any curve that differs from the geodesic purely spatially (i.e. does not change the time coordinate) in any inertial frame of reference will have a longer proper length than the geodesic, but a curve that differs from the geodesic purely temporally (i.e. does not change the space coordinates) in such a frame of reference will have a shorter proper length.....

In my case it's proper length as distance  and co-ordinate time(across metric tensor line as per the diagram) as time...for every unit of time there is increase of proper length towards mass.

If you apply the Klein Gordon equation you will be Lorentz invariant regardless of geometry changes of spacetime. That is the primary reason why the Klein Gordon equation was developed. The equation directly applies the 4 momentum and four velocity.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mordred

[MJ kihara]

2 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

Any curve that differs from the geodesic purely spatially (i.e. does not change the time coordinate) in any inertial frame of reference will have a longer proper length than the geodesic,

From the same Wikipedia article,

2 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

...Any curve that differs from the geodesic purely spatially (i.e. does not change the time coordinate) in any inertial frame of reference will have a longer proper length than the geodesic,....

Anyway I mean the length as outlined on the diagram...I settle with the following explanation for simplicity sake,

4 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

Thanks for the corrections.

 let me correct on that by dropping geodesic therefore it becomes..... indicating the path followed by the object as indicated in the diagram.....

I mean literally someone to put units of time from point B to A using metric tensor line as time axis then literally measure the arc length,then let the object to freefall from point A to B near source of mass...it's obvious that speed will be increasing towards mass, since per unit time length/distance is increasing...as indicated on the diagram.

The arc length in this case is the surface of wave that becomes world line of the object as it free fall towards mass.

Remember its simple explanation using the minimum possible detail.

 

5 hours ago, Mordred said:

Under GR all events are inertial. The geodesic equations include this detail.  The Euler Langranian equations are capable of handling wave equations with particle paths. The entire body of QFT incorporate that.

 

58 minutes ago, Mordred said:

If you apply the Klein Gordon equation you will be Lorentz invariant regardless of geometry changes of spacetime. That is the primary reason why the Klein Gordon equation was developed. The equation directly applies the 4 momentum and four velocity.

🤔 You see too far...just looking for the easiest explanation...to be palatable to the majority without strong scientific background...+1.

[Mordred]

Funny part is the specific QFT equation I'm referring to is very rudimentary. QFT uses normalized units and directly applies the energy momentum equation E^2=P^2+m^2. (In normalized units) For field position you apply the coordinate in x^4 which breaks down to x^0=t, ×^1=x, x^2=y, x^3=z. Nice thing about that is it works well with time derivatives as well.

 Where the complexity starts to develop is when you add probability for the principle of least action (path taken) and quantum harmonic oscillator. That's where the Euler-Langrangian gets incorporated.

Geometry related details gets detailed under the Poincare group. While particle details are under  their Lorentz invariant gauge group.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mordred

[MJ kihara]

18 minutes ago, Mordred said:

 Where the complexity starts to develop is when you add probability

What about if you take momentum density,energy flux and energy density,momentum flux to be complex conjugate  and that their probability always equals one indicating position with certainty of an object moving towards mass?

[Genady]

1 hour ago, MJ kihara said:

an object moving towards mass?

What about the objects which don't move toward mass? For example, the Moon does not move toward the Earth. Moreover, the Moon slowly drifts away from the Earth.

[Mordred]

4 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

What about if you take momentum density,energy flux and energy density,momentum flux to be complex conjugate  and that their probability always equals one indicating position with certainty of an object moving towards mass?

Likely the easiest way to answer the above is to recognize that in QFT. You don't think of particles as little billiard balls. In QFT all particles are field excitations. An excitation is a waveform however it is not a sinusoidal waveform as you have in your pictures. It would look more like a momentary spike. That momentary spike can be localized with definable boundaries whereas you cannot do the same with a sinusoidal.

As all particles are states that encompass the particles wavefunctions you will require the complex conjugates you do in QM. Also you will invariably will applying density functions. You listed two of them but another extremely important one is the probability density functions 

In the Langrangian you apply any field related details under the potential energy term (coupling constants etc) the momentum terms is the kinetic energy terms. Both of these will vary uncertainty, flux, harmonic oscillator, field variations etc can be and usually is factored in. There is no single langrene formula, one can arbitrarily apply their own Langrene to anything involving kinematic motion. This includes scatterings aka Feymann Integrals as one example.

Flux, density and mass are unavoidable terms when your talking field excitations. Mass is simply resistance to inertia change or acceleration. In essence QFT literally describes how the field varies (perturbs) where particles are localized field variations.

Edited May 18, 2023 by Mordred

[Genady]

4 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

if you take momentum density,energy flux and energy density,momentum flux to be complex conjugate

All four of the above are complex conjugates of themselves by the virtue of being real numbers or Hermitian operators.

[MJ kihara]

6 hours ago, Genady said:

What about the objects which don't move toward mass? For example, the Moon does not move toward the Earth. Moreover, the Moon slowly drifts away from the Earth.

You will take the two diagram and let them meet in this case one mass will be Earth(with it's EFE components) the other mass will be  Moon....where their respective wave meet their will be a wave function collapse that point becomes barycenter of the two object,at such a point a new wave I will be generated containing the EFE component describing the two system...in case of Earth and moon they are not the only two in space...they are part of the solar system , therefore, other objects sun, Venus,Mercury, Mars e.t.c thier EFE components as indicated on diagram collapses at the solar system barycenter where new wave with its EFE components is generated that describes the solar system...taking all that into consideration it will be clear why the moon goes around the Earth at the same time it's drifting away from it.

3 hours ago, Genady said:

All four of the above are complex conjugates of themselves by the virtue of being real numbers or Hermitian operators.

Am considering them as indicated on the diagram...in pairs.. putting in mind that the diagrams indicates a smooth transition from source of mass itself,quantum realm..( elementary particle,Higgs field,graviton, gravitational wave.. ) to massive objects, classical realm where either an object is on a certain position or it's not there.

[Genady]

6 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

You will take the two diagram and let them meet in this case one mass will be Earth(with it's EFE components) the other mass will be  Moon....where their respective wave meet their will be a wave function collapse that point becomes barycenter of the two object,at such a point a new wave I will be generated containing the EFE component describing the two system...in case of Earth and moon they are not the only two in space...they are part of the solar system , therefore, other objects sun, Venus,Mercury, Mars e.t.c thier EFE components as indicated on diagram collapses at the solar system barycenter where new wave with its EFE components is generated that describes the solar system...taking all that into consideration it will be clear why the moon goes around the Earth at the same time it's drifting away from it.

You're looking for simple explanations,

16 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

just looking for the easiest explanation...to be palatable to the majority without strong scientific background

but the explanation above is not simple at all.

Can you explain simply, what makes the Moon drift away from the Earth?

[Bufofrog]

18 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

.just looking for the easiest explanation...to be palatable to the majority without strong scientific background...

Simple but wrong is not helpful.  Several members have pointed out to you that this simple explanation of yours is full of errors.  

[MJ kihara]

37 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

Simple but wrong is not helpful.  Several members have pointed out to you that this simple explanation of yours is full of errors.  

You can't dismiss it as wrong....your not aware of what am doing or am not getting what you are saying...like for instance tell me the error your talking about..there is a big difference between being incorrect and being wrong...there are a lot of original concepts am bringing e.g saturation of Higgs field ....the concept you want to dismiss unites strong force,weak force, electromagnetic force and gravitation...it's unfortunate to dismiss concepts for the mere fact of being incomprehensible.

 

[MJ kihara]

3 hours ago, Genady said:

You're looking for simple explanations,

but the explanation above is not simple at all.

Am going a long with the questions your are asking me otherwise I could have stuck with the diagrams....another point to earlier discussion the wave also represent normalizing constant.

3 hours ago, Genady said:

Can you explain simply, what makes the Moon drift away from the Earth?

As per the concept in the diagram, remember that moon- is not hypothetical object- is mass source, therefore it will free fall towards Earth and Earth free fall towards it in an ideal situation...as their two waves forms collapse at the barycenter of their  system generating a new wave form with it's EFE component of the system (Earth-moon system).

However,the barycenter of the system wobbles alot due to the fluidity of Earth oceans inducing slight movements of mass(of course ocean mass which is part of Earth Mass)..these instabilities in the barycenter causes the wave function not to collapse perfectly,inducing delays in collapse,that time delay, creates a window that leads to constructive interference between moon g waves(as indicated in the diagram) and Earth g waves(as indicated in the diagram) leading to transfer of energy to the moon increasing it's energy density.
 

From the diagram, energy density is conjugate variable of momentum density which inturn is conjugate to momentum flux,therefore,increase in moons energy density leads to decrease in its momentum density leading to increase in momentum flux of the moon making moon to drift away from the Earth.

 

 

[Genady]

56 minutes ago, MJ kihara said:

Am going a long with the questions your are asking me otherwise I could have stuck with the diagrams....another point to earlier discussion the wave also represent normalizing constant.

As per the concept in the diagram, remember that moon- is not hypothetical object- is mass source, therefore it will free fall towards Earth and Earth free fall towards it in an ideal situation...as their two waves forms collapse at the barycenter of their  system generating a new wave form with it's EFE component of the system (Earth-moon system).

However,the barycenter of the system wobbles alot due to the fluidity of Earth oceans inducing slight movements of mass(of course ocean mass which is part of Earth Mass)..these instabilities in the barycenter causes the wave function not to collapse perfectly,inducing delays in collapse,that time delay, creates a window that leads to constructive interference between moon g waves(as indicated in the diagram) and Earth g waves(as indicated in the diagram) leading to transfer of energy to the moon increasing it's energy density.
 

From the diagram, energy density is conjugate variable of momentum density which inturn is conjugate to momentum flux,therefore,increase in moons energy density leads to decrease in its momentum density leading to increase in momentum flux of the moon making moon to drift away from the Earth.

 

 

Well, you've asked earlier to point to something in your explanation that is wrong:

 

2 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

You can't dismiss it as wrong....your not aware of what am doing or am not getting what you are saying...like for instance tell me the error your talking about..there is a big difference between being incorrect and being wrong...there are a lot of original concepts am bringing e.g saturation of Higgs field ....the concept you want to dismiss unites strong force,weak force, electromagnetic force and gravitation...it's unfortunate to dismiss concepts for the mere fact of being incomprehensible.

 

So, here you are. Your explanation above of the Moon drifting away from the Earth is wrong. And it doesn't matter if we comprehend it or not. It is wrong because it omits crucial ingredients. Without these ingredients the drift would not happen.

[MJ kihara]

11 minutes ago, Genady said:

Without these ingredients the drift would not happen.

I welcome you to tell me about the ingredients..what are they?

[Genady]

10 minutes ago, MJ kihara said:

I welcome you to tell me about the ingredients..what are they?

Tidal bulges.

The Earth spinning in the same sense as rotation of the Moon around it.

Forces between the Earth crust and the ocean water.

The bulges staying ahead of the Moon's position relative to the Earth.

Slowing of the Earth spinning.

Angular momentum conservation.

Take away any one of these, and the Moon does not drift away.

[MJ kihara]

26 minutes ago, Genady said:

Tidal bulges.

The Earth spinning in the same sense as rotation of the Moon around it.

Forces between the Earth crust and the ocean water.

The bulges staying ahead of the Moon's position relative to the Earth.

Slowing of the Earth spinning.

Angular momentum conservation.

Take away any one of these, and the Moon does not drift away.

😎.....that is the explanation,very correct.....I have just explained exactly about that according to the concepts that are outlined in the diagrams.....just look at my answer again, it's even going deeper by answering the Why? Why? Why? questions.

 

And for verification purposes and showing prediction power of the concept outlined......at barycenter or it's periphery of massive bodies e.g blackholes,neutron star system e.t.c particles are expected to be formed that should be detectable,also mini blackholes can form in extreme cases...in this era of JWT telescope I expect with time data will become available that will verify the concept.

[Genady]

11 minutes ago, MJ kihara said:

😎.....that is the explanation,very correct.....I have just explained exactly about that according to the concepts that are outlined in the diagrams.....just look at my answer again, it's even going deeper by answering the Why? Why? Why? questions.

 

And for verification purposes and showing prediction power of the concept outlined......at barycenter or it's periphery of massive bodies e.g blackholes,neutron star system e.t.c particles are expected to be formed that should be detectable,also mini blackholes can form in extreme cases...in this era of JWT telescope I expect with time data will become available that will verify the concept.

What can I say without being banned? Ha-ha.

[MJ kihara]

The concept here in is critical in understanding of blackhole formation.

[MJ kihara]

ILet have a thought experiment,the simplest gravitational wave after graviton decays/decouples from elementary particles will consist of single virtual particles aka spacetime particles interwoven through entanglement via their eigen space... remember this entanglement reduces with reduction of concentration of interwoven virtual particles aka spacetime particles and increase in degree of freedom away from emissions source, where eventually after reaching the highest degree of freedom the virtual particles dilutes to become spacetime fabric.

On 5/14/2023 at 12:29 PM, MJ kihara said:

Let's take the basic gravitational wave formed initially as a thread( fibre consisting of interwoven virtual particles aka spacetime particles).

Therefore,on top of elementary particles there will be 'threads' spinning out  at to less than Planck's time...when elementary particles aggragate(through strong force and other mechanism) the standing waves will undergo constructive interference i.e the 'threads' will get interwoven and entangle more...this happens in tandem with increase in mass.

From earlier discussions this 'thread' will become the worldline that the hypothetical object(object without gravitational influence) will follow as it free fall towards mass.

Let have a massive body at the verge of collapsing into a blackhole,As the mass was additively becoming massive so were the 'threads' (weak gravitational waves) entangling and getting interwoven to become 'ropes'(strong gravitational waves)...these 'Ropes' entangled to give the event horizon....while under the influence of the massive gravitational forces forming the 'ropes' collapses on themselves to form knot/knots.

Therefore,the blackhole becomes a Knot.

 

Remember it's a thought experiments....where imagination matters.

[Bufofrog]

6 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

Let's take the basic gravitational wave formed initially as a thread( fibre consisting of interwoven virtual particles aka spacetime particles).

Therefore,on top of elementary particles there will be 'threads' spinning out  at to less than Planck's time...when elementary particles aggragate(through strong force and other mechanism) the standing waves will undergo constructive interference i.e the 'threads' will get interwoven and entangle more...this happens in tandem with increase in mass.

From earlier discussions this 'thread' will become the worldline that the hypothetical object(object without gravitational influence) will follow as it free fall towards mass.

Let have a massive body at the verge of collapsing into a blackhole,As the mass was additively becoming massive so were the 'threads' (weak gravitational waves) entangling and getting interwoven to become 'ropes'(strong gravitational waves)...these 'Ropes' entangled to give the event horizon....while under the influence of the massive gravitational forces forming the 'ropes' collapses on themselves to form knot/knots.

Therefore,the blackhole becomes a Knot.

Word salad.

[MJ kihara]

Therefore,when an object/particle goes past the event horizon it will follow a knot worldline and be trapped in these endless worldline...as the pressure  and gravitation energy increases towards the blackhole singularity the knot tighten more....leading to formation of gravitons....since the standing wave on elementary particles no longer decays/decouples...moving forward as the knot tightens more it start fusing(the knot merges) ,then the reverse of universe expansion takes place...as illustrated in the the following diagram inwardly;

 

the collapse will happen in reverse whereby higgs fields collapses to top quark...then to leptons.... then to neutrinos to photons...then up to dark photons and dark matter...these will then stabilise the blackhole at the centre,however, as the pressure overwhelmingly increases...the spacetime particles aka virtual particles will start to disintergrate and fall back to singularity as consciousness as illustrated in the diagram;

disintergration of spacetime particles aka virtual particles back to consciousness will be favoured towards the core of blackhole.... THEREFORE AT BLACKHOLE SINGULARITY ITS JUST CONSCIOUSNESS PRESENT.

6 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

Word salad

Semantics.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://meetings.aps.org/Meeting/APR23/Session/M08.1&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwizn4ybkoz_AhXQdqQEHfAEBzMQFnoECAcQAg&usg=AOvVaw3TiEqrUfw7vxue_raPUeJ1

If you doubt my concepts follow the link...🤩... blackhole is observing.

[Bufofrog]

3 hours ago, MJ kihara said:

blackhole is observing.

Unless blackhole is the name of your cat or something, it ain't observing nothing.

[MJ kihara]

4 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

it ain't observing nothing.

😂 ....i can't fully dismiss your statement.. 'observing nothing'...Just follow the link...isn't that incomprehensible....it's science.

[Mordred]

34 minutes ago, MJ kihara said:

😂 ....i can't fully dismiss your statement.. 'observing nothing'...Just follow the link...isn't that incomprehensible....it's science.

science isn't pictures and verbal descriptions. It is making testable predictions using mathematics of cause and effect. At least in any physics related topic. A picture or verbal description doesn't make a testable prediction.

a very simple example I have a mass if I accelerate that mass to such and such it will deliver a measurable force.

\[f=ma\]

it is testable it makes predictions used in nearly every aspect of modern engineering as well as applying in every modern theory in physics.

Edited May 24, 2023 by Mordred

[MJ kihara]

The diagrams and descriptions is for the illustration purposes...otherwise the majority of mathematical aspects have already been developed....the math from the diagram that I have, just reproduces Newton laws of gravity then I try relating it to entanglement and relating it to information exchange,deriving E=MC^2 in easiest way for a layman,simple Fourier transformation to relate weak boson with the structures shown in diagram that leads to  Mexican hat shaped structure for higgs boson and graviton as standing wave on elementary particles...the other math is introducing EFE components as shown in the initial diagrams in this thread....am not well versed with other complicated math concepts.

Those diagrams were derived from simple mathematics of beta emissions, using Feynman diagrams for beta emissions for guidance purposes.

I have just those simple math and illustrations...it's only that I saw what am doing to be able to explain all these concepts to a layman before  The AI develops to the level of making human intelligence trivial is leading to something wonderful....thats why i entered to this forum.

Not to be rude...i think we should just accept our brains are limited to the extended to which we can carry out mathematical operations...some of which require infinite time on human level,that should be carried out by quantum supercomputers...let us and especially in this forum be on the right side of history,that we are entering into an era where pure human reasoning and imagination are importantly required and that the supercomputers are there to crunch the data and do formulations and simulations to sieve our reasoning and imaginations to identify the most viable and useful ones for the exploration of the Universe.