Roger Waters: Fascist-Nazi

[StringJunky]

Quote

BERLIN/LONDON, May 27 (Reuters) - Pink Floyd co-founder Roger Waters said he was opposing fascism and bigotry when he wore a Nazi-style uniform on stage at a concert in Berlin that led German police to launch an investigation into the British musician.

The 79-year-old said aspects of his performance at Berlin's Mercedes-Benz Arena that have been questioned were "quite clearly" a statement against fascism, injustice and bigotry.

"Attempts to portray those elements as something else are disingenuous and politically motivated," he tweeted.

Images from a May 17 concert showed the famed singer and bass player in a long black trench coat with bright red arm bands, aiming an imitation machine gun into the audience.

The outfit included a swastika-like emblem made of two crossed hammers - iconography that also appeared on costumes in a film based on Pink Floyd's hit 1979 album "The Wall", a critique of fascism.

Waters said the depiction of "an unhinged fascist demagogue" had been a feature of his shows since "The Wall".

Social media users defended Waters, saying the performance was a recreation of satirical scenes from the film starring rock star turned campaigner Bob Geldof and that Waters had worn the same costume in past concerts.

Nazi symbols, flags and uniforms are prohibited in Germany. Waters is being investigated under a separate law on suspicion of "incitement of the people", police said.

The costume worn by Waters "is deemed capable of violating the dignity of the victims, as well as approving, glorifying or justifying the violent and arbitrary rule of the Nazi regime in a way that disrupts public peace," a police spokesperson said.

Given that he  is using 'Nazi-like' symbolism, but only really alludes to it as a fascist example, is Germany going over the top? Waters album has been around since '79. Rogers is many things, but I don't think he's fascist. It's obvious to me as a long time fan of PF, but may look different to others. 

It's ironic that they let him hold a massive concert near the Brandenberg Gate (Ithink) when it toppled. He wasn't seen as a fascist then, when he used the same work.

Edited May 27, 2023 by StringJunky

[CharonY]

Once allegations have been made, the police has to investigate. My guess is he made enemies due to his anti-Israeli stance. Most likely it won't result in anything.

[StringJunky]

14 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Once allegations have been made, the police has to investigate. My guess is he made enemies due to his anti-Israeli stance. Most likely it won't result in anything.

Yes, that's a point. I'm right with him on Israel, but that's just a coincidence because most of his politics I don't align with. 

[MigL]

He has been a bit out to lunch with his political opinions lately.
Maybe all entertainers should stick to what they do best, and leave the political commentary to those whose job it is.
( not that they shouldn't have an opinion, but their often misguided opinions can be too influential )

Above all, an entertainer should know his audience.
Germany is still trying to live down the shame of Nazism; that kind of imagery might be too much for a German audience.

[Sensei]

(Some/most) people are prostitutes. Will do everything for money.. Some wear nice suits to steal your money (e.g. how much money do they need to get elected as POTUS?), others wear the weirdest costumes to get your money..

If you put something controversial, or say something controversial on your channel, you'll get free ads from people like @StringJunky all over the world.. for free.. The entire social media will be flooded with this..

https://www.google.com/search?q=Roger+Waters+russian

 That guy has something with head and/or is supporter of V.P. ..

Anonymous etc. should be on his PC, laptop and smartphone to investigate what is the case..

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by Sensei

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

He has been a bit out to lunch with his political opinions lately.
Maybe all entertainers should stick to what they do best, and leave the political commentary to those whose job it is.
( not that they shouldn't have an opinion, but their often misguided opinions can be too influential )

So they should be more politically correct ;)?

But yes there has always been a risk if one wades into public discussions especially if one is not trained to navigate public opinion. That being said, I think we are still struggling how to navigate the whole social media landscape, which expands these types of issues from celebrities to regular folks (who definitely don't have PR folks working for them).

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

He has been a bit out to lunch with his political opinions lately.
Maybe all entertainers should stick to what they do best, and leave the political commentary to those whose job it is.
( not that they shouldn't have an opinion, but their often misguided opinions can be too influential )

Above all, an entertainer should know his audience.
Germany is still trying to live down the shame of Nazism; that kind of imagery might be too much for a German audience.

I agree. I can understand with Germany. RW should just shut up and let his work speak for itself. 

[CharonY]

In Germany it has become more acceptable to use Nazi imagery for artistic purposes, but glorification is still a hard line.

[StringJunky]

4 hours ago, Sensei said:

 That guy has something with head and/or is supporter of V.P. ..

Also, Che Guavara, Castro and other hard Left leaders. 

 

Just now, CharonY said:

In Germany it has become more acceptable to use Nazi imagery for artistic purposes, but glorification is still a hard line.

It's only superficial and doesn't bear scrutiny. It seems that way because in his acts he personally takes on the character, and is clearly very good at it. His general artistic MO is to show the underbelly of human nature and then caricaturizes it in striking ways.

[TheVat]

America: racism = Germany: Nazism

IOW, there's that thin line between free expression (we don't need no thought control ) and possible glorification of what was atrocious.

It's a Mel Brooks quote that springs to mind, Tragedy plus time, equals comedy.  In another few decades, it will hoffentlich be easier for Germans to laugh at that era.  Perhaps Springtime for Hitler will become a hit!

[geordief]

Is RW being boorishly provocative bringing this show to Germany?

 

Aside from their victims they have suffered more than any other country at the hands of the Nazis  and perhaps they may feel that they have a deeper understanding  of the dangers of that ideology than he does.

 

It strikes me that while it is to be hoped that that belief system takes hold in no country at all it may be that the one country we would least wish to encourage it is in Germany itself.

 

If they decide that RW  is shouting fire in a crowded theatre for whatever convoluted reasons  he may have I would respect their judgement more than that of most .And ,if they decide otherwise  I would pay attention to that too.

[swansont]

He’s being investigated, so it hasn’t been determined that he broke the law.

But he had two earlier shows in Germany, so I wonder why this wasn’t an issue after the first show, or if he was warned and went ahead anyway.

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, TheVat said:

America: racism = Germany: Nazism

IOW, there's that thin line between free expression (we don't need no thought control ) and possible glorification of what was atrocious.

It's a Mel Brooks quote that springs to mind, Tragedy plus time, equals comedy.  In another few decades, it will hoffentlich be easier for Germans to laugh at that era.  Perhaps Springtime for Hitler will become a hit!

There was a German satirical comedy about 10 years ago where Hitler was the protagonist. It was rather successful, IIRC.

If anything, I am a bit worried that the new generation does not realize the horrors to the same degree, especially with political party (the AfD) repeatedly trying to downplay the horrors of Nazism.

 

19 minutes ago, swansont said:

He’s being investigated, so it hasn’t been determined that he broke the law.

But he had two earlier shows in Germany, so I wonder why this wasn’t an issue after the first show, or if he was warned and went ahead anyway.

There was already an investigation for antisemitism because of the use of balloons shaped like pigs with the Star of David. One additional issue is that the concert was located at a place (the Festhalle) where in 38 Jews were rounded up and transported to concentration camps, where they were murdered.  But the court allowed the concert to go ahead as they ruled that the performance did not glorify Nazism or identified with Nazi ideology. That being said, I assume that some critics, including the International Auschwitz committee may have continued to push different angles.

[npts2020]

I say goooo Roger. There definitely needs to be a broader discussion about control of the world's resources and how they are used, thanks for helping facilitate it. IMO nothing will come of this, it is simply harassment by those who don't like what he has to say and resent that his platform reaches so many people.

[StringJunky]

11 hours ago, npts2020 said:

I say goooo Roger. There definitely needs to be a broader discussion about control of the world's resources and how they are used, thanks for helping facilitate it. IMO nothing will come of this, it is simply harassment by those who don't like what he has to say and resent that his platform reaches so many people.

The problem is he hasn't got a coherent message. If you think he has, tell me what it is.

[MigL]

Just another angry old man.
( welcome to the club, Roger )

Only problem is, he has a 'platform' that reaches many.

[StringJunky]

7 minutes ago, MigL said:

Just another angry old man.

"...Just another sad old man

All alone

And dying of cancer."

Dogs, Animals 1977

Roger is probably realizing his own past musings... as happens to everyone.

[npts2020]

12 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The problem is he hasn't got a coherent message. If you think he has, tell me what it is.

I suppose coherency is in the eye of the beholder but Roger is pretty consistent in condemning violence (especially wars), promoting civil rights and trying to alleviate poverty among other things