is RFID blocking wallet a gimmick?

[iNow]

8 hours ago, Sensei said:

.professionals do it from your current IP address..

This IMO oversimplifies what's actually happening to the point of making it inaccurate. Your computer knowledge absolutely surpasses my own, but I do have some familiarity with the ways AI tools are being applied in finance to identify and address fraud and it's about more than just IP matching.

8 hours ago, Sensei said:

People here started to say that it is unneeded fake for paranoid people, so I objected.

In some ways, you actually reinforced the point that faraday wallets are a bit gimmicky because you pointed out just how many several other (much easier) ways exist to pilfer the credit card data of consumers... easier, at least, than picking up RFID info while the card is still stored in ones wallet within ones pocket.

[StringJunky]

1 minute ago, iNow said:

This IMO oversimplifies what's actually happening to the point of making it inaccurate. Your computer knowledge absolutely surpasses my own, but I do have some familiarity with the ways AI tools are being applied in finance to identify and address fraud and it's about more than just IP matching.

Also, one should note that a technique that is at 'proof of concept', doesn't mean it can necessarily be applied substantively  in the wild. Not saying this instance is so, but it's something to be aware of.

[Sensei]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

In some ways, you actually reinforced the point that faraday wallets are a bit gimmicky because you pointed out just how many several other (much easier) ways exist to pilfer the credit card data of consumers... easier, at least, than picking up RFID info while the card is still stored in ones wallet within ones pocket.

..so, you apparently spent literally zero time watching youtube videos with queries I gave which shows "how they did it".. and "how".. or you did not understand..

Giving exact links would be like "tutorial how to steal your money"..

In 5 minutes after I wrote my initial post about it, I found video, were they showing device which does NFC from "meters" around them, because they used so large antenna in the bag (50 cm+)..

 

 

ps. I know an IT multimillionaire here who told me 10 years ago that he cut the connections from his VISA debit cards to RFID/NFC to disable the connections..

ps2. If someone takes your wallet with your cards, you know they are lost. So you turn everything off and you're done. If someone takes your wallet, debit/credit cards, takes pictures, you still have them on hand and nothing happens, you have no idea that your data was stolen. Until "doomsday."

Then you are not able to say how it all happened, because it could have happened several months ago.

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Also, one should note that a technique that is at 'proof of concept', doesn't mean it can necessarily be applied substantively  in the wild. Not saying this instance is so, but it's something to be aware of.

..5 mins and you have a video of a people selling RFID/NFC antennas.. recording stuff from your device from meters (due to the size of their antenna in the bag)..

 

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Sensei

[swansont]

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

ps2. If someone takes your wallet with your cards, you know they are lost. So you turn everything off and you're done. If someone takes your wallet, debit/credit cards, takes pictures, you still have them on hand and nothing happens, you have no idea that your data was stolen. Until "doomsday."

And you aren’t liable for most of it, in the US. You’d owe at most $50 per card, and some cards have zero liability.

That puts the burden on the credit card companies to have decent security measures. One card I have texts me for approval if the purchase breaks a pattern

[Sensei]

6 minutes ago, swansont said:

Quote

 If someone takes your wallet, debit/credit cards, takes pictures, you still have them on hand and nothing happens, you have no idea that your data was stolen. Until "doomsday."

And you aren’t liable for most of it, in the US. You’d owe at most $50 per card, and some cards have zero liability.

That puts the burden on the credit card companies to have decent security measures. One card I have texts me for approval if the purchase breaks a pattern

..in the real world (except for commercials) it doesn't look like that..

 

10 minutes ago, swansont said:

One card I have texts me for approval if the purchase breaks a pattern

Lucky you. I never had unauthorized attempt of transaction..

 

Edited June 30, 2023 by Sensei

[swansont]

5 minutes ago, Sensei said:

..in the real world (except for commercials) it doesn't look like that..

 

IIRC, I had no liability when someone stole my credit card info (waiter at a restaurant was the likely culprit)

[Sensei]

Just now, swansont said:

IIRC, I had no liability when someone stole my credit card info (waiter at a restaurant was the likely culprit)

How can they differ from legal or illegal access?

It is word from you vs word of bartender, where you get drunk..
 

4 minutes ago, swansont said:

I had no liability when someone stole my credit card info (waiter at a restaurant was the likely culprit)

...you have no idea when and where somebody will make photo of your cards..

 

[swansont]

10 minutes ago, Sensei said:

How can they differ from legal or illegal access?

It is word from you vs word of bartender, where you get drunk..
 

I know I didn’t make the charges, and reported them to the card issuer. They investigated, and refunded the money.

And I said waiter, not bartender. It was at a restaurant.

—-

“There has still to this day not been a report of a single real-world crime that an RFID blocking product would have stopped.”

https://www.digitaltrends.com/cool-tech/are-rfid-blocking-products-worth-your-money-we-asked-an-expert/

 

—-

I just read that zero liability is now US federal law. Not sure when that was enacted.

Also, RFID transactions are encrypted, so you’d need to use your skimmed info quickly, or the code wouldn’t be correct.

11 minutes ago, Sensei said:

...you have no idea when and where somebody will make photo of your cards..

Right. Which is why a method that doesn’t require you to hand over your card to someone was developed.

[Sensei]

15 minutes ago, swansont said:

I know I didn’t make the charges, and reported them to the card issuer. They investigated, and refunded the money.

And I said waiter, not bartender. It was at a restaurant.

Ok.

Now imagine.

Hackers break to your smartphone,

so their IP address, is equal to your IP address.

And you complain about unauthorized transaction, is laughable.

It happens from 1) your device 2) from your IP address 3) from your GPS.. 4) you were there at the time of dinner..

 

True investigation that you're not the real purchaser but fake would require taking monitoring data and comparison of data.

 

If they have such..

 

Most people will just give up and become their loss....

ps. I see your reply was adjusted while I was in the middle.. so excuse me to not taking account your further thoughts..

Edited June 30, 2023 by Sensei

[Genady]

Over the years, I had five unauthorized transactions. Every time the bank caught it before me, and I was never charged. Three times the bank system flagged a "suspicious" transaction and they waited for me to confirm it.

I know that this is not a representative statistic. Just data.

[iNow]

10 hours ago, Sensei said:

you apparently spent literally zero time watching youtube videos with queries I gave

Yes, that’s correct. However, you appear to assume in parallel that my existing baseline knowledge on this topic is null. That is not correct. 

10 hours ago, Sensei said:

If someone takes your wallet, debit/credit cards, takes pictures, you still have them on hand and nothing happens, you have no idea that your data was stolen. Until "doomsday."

Or, until the algorithm detects a break in the pattern, in which case I’m alerted and the workflow I’ve already laid out above gets executed. 

Even if that fails, I can also see transactions myself at any time and manually challenge any not from us. Banking institutions will tend to reverse any financial liability previously associated with me (and potentially issue new card) and end result is same. 

7 hours ago, swansont said:

I had no liability when someone stole my credit card info

For me it was a gas station attendant when refueling the vehicle prior to entering Yellowstone with my family. Card was deactivated before I even got to the hotel. Had to call them to unlock the hold. 

[StringJunky]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

Yes, that’s correct. However, you appear to assume in parallel that my existing baseline knowledge on this topic is null. That is not correct. 

Or, until the algorithm detects a break in the pattern, in which case I’m alerted and the workflow I’ve already laid out above gets executed. 

Even if that fails, I can also see transactions myself at any time and manually challenge any not from us. Banking institutions will tend to reverse any financial liability previously associated with me (and potentially issue new card) and end result is same. 

For me it was a gas station attendant when refueling the vehicle prior to entering Yellowstone with my family. Card was deactivated before I even got to the hotel. Had to call them to unlock the hold. 

You've also got a paper and video trail to follow. I can also arbitrarily block my card at my convenience, which I do when I misplace it.  I got robbed last week or two, including my card; no losses apart from losing the card, my wallet, a few quid and covid card... which I found on a path near my abode a day or so later.  I do notice a sizable number of people using some sort of contactless phone app nowadays more and more.

Edited July 1, 2023 by StringJunky

[MigL]

Not sure about the rest of the World, but my Debit Card allows forwithdrawls up to $1000 ( even multiple times per day ), and payments up to $5000; always prompted to provide a PIN.
My credit Card also always prompts me for a PIN.

Both cards were used in Switzerland, Germany and Italy, and aleays prompted for a PIN.
Not sure about the US, as it's been maybe 20 years since I've had to use a Debit Card there; I usually have some American cash on hand to use if going for drinks/dinner in the weatern New York area.

[StringJunky]

Online, every transaction I do brings up the bank page and I'm required to enter the number they send as well the cvv number. Dual authentication every time.

[John Cuthber]

On 6/29/2023 at 9:22 PM, Sensei said:

Losing money from a credit/debit card that has a magnetic stripe (which one doesn't?) is as easy as this guy shows:

About 12 seconds into the video, they guy explains that he says you should keep your cards in sight- which is sensible advice.
But it has nothing to do with RFID, has it?

If someone has your card, it's no longer in the "protective" wallet.

Why did you post that video in this thread?