English?

[Genady]

As a non-native English speaker, I'd like to understand why so many native English speakers so often misuse words like their/ there/ they're? 

[geordief]

23 minutes ago, Genady said:

As a non-native English speaker, I'd like to understand why so many native English speakers so often misuse words like their/ there/ they're? 

Is autospell making it worse ?Too much hassle to correct and you can count on readers to understand what you were trying to write.

 

"its"  vs "it's"  gets my goat (computer knows best)

[Genady]

Reading such texts causes mental dissonance sometimes. For example, you read "who think their female ..." and you mentally construct a meaning, and then comes the next word and ruins it: "who think their female enough".

[iNow]

2 hours ago, Genady said:

As a non-native English speaker, I'd like to understand why so many native English speakers so often misuse words like their/ there/ they're? 

English is weird and it's two hard too remember witch homonym is wich. 

Also, spellcheck is an asshole sometimes.

[Externet]

Laziness, yes, mental laziness is the factor. 

And whoever says that English is evolving :  NO, languages do not evolve.  Languages are degenerated and contaminated by lazy ignorants.  Spell check ?  Wait until A.I. takes over.

[geordief]

2 hours ago, Genady said:

"who think their female enough".

Seems a fairly archaic/litterary expression.Kind of the thing Atreides might have said in Dune.

 

I know you made it up ,but it doesn't show up as a complete phrase in Google .

 

"their female"

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, Genady said:

As a non-native English speaker, I'd like to understand why so many native English speakers so often misuse words like their/ there/ they're? 

Lax pedagogy. Children are not taught the reason for grammatical rules - if they're even taught the rules at all - and students who should already have learned are not held to a standard of adherence. Add to the poor grasp of written English with which children grow up the fact that they're* not required to write anything on their own, without electronic assistance, and that they are bombarded from all sides with other people's faulty grammar.

*they [a]re   

[Genady]

4 minutes ago, geordief said:

I know you made it up

But I did not. It is right here, a bit down the list:

[iNow]

removed

Edited July 12, 2023 by iNow

[geordief]

10 minutes ago, Genady said:

But I did not. It is right here, a bit down the list:

Ah,I see.Did you find that on the internet?

If you did, then either it was not cached or even Google could see it was a misspelling (which I very much doubt)

I agree with @Externet that AI will have us for breakfast in this area.

 

Edit:Oh ,you found it this this thread.(I mean on this forum)Like when I look for my specs or other things,  they are often right beside me after I have searched nigh and low everywhere else.

Edited July 12, 2023 by geordief

[Peterkin]

13 minutes ago, geordief said:

"who think their female enough".

"Who think they are not female enough" presumably refers to one group of people's low opinion of another group's femininity, quoted from one of the many North Americans who are not in the habit of reading literate printed material, and choose their words by ear.

edit - I was slow with that response.

Most of our examples of English usage now come from the internet and the workplace - which for many people are/is the same place. And most of my errors are due to clumsy fingers on the keyboard.

Edited July 12, 2023 by Peterkin

[iNow]

1 minute ago, Peterkin said:

quoted from one of the many North Americans who are not in the habit of reading literate printed material

The example here is NOT from North America

[geordief]

17 minutes ago, Externet said:

Laziness, yes, mental laziness is the factor. 

And whoever says that English is evolving :  NO, languages do not evolve.  Languages are degenerated and contaminated by lazy ignorants.  Spell check ?  Wait until A.I. takes over.

Normally they evolve but this is uncharted territory.

[Genady]

So, people who regularly make these word substitutions,

(a) never knew the proper way,

(b) forgot the proper way,

(c) don't care

?

Edited July 12, 2023 by Genady

[geordief]

7 minutes ago, Genady said:

So, the people who regularly make these word substitutions,

(a) never knew the proper way,

(b) forgot the proper way,

(c) don't care

?

They can also have poor computer skills. Lots of oldies  can't be bothered to learn the computer and I know one whose written output is appalling 

(almost as bad as this f/ing  computer I am  trying to use.)

Edited July 12, 2023 by geordief

[Peterkin]

23 minutes ago, iNow said:

The example here is NOT from North America

Incorrect assumption on my part. I apologize to all North Americans for the mistake.

7 minutes ago, Genady said:

So, the people who regularly make these word substitutions,

(a) never knew the proper way,

(b) forgot the proper way,

(c) don't care

?

Yes to all, if "the people" includes everyone, on all continents.

[Genady]

6 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

includes everyone, on all continents.

only native English speakers. Still

 

7 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

Yes to all

?

10 minutes ago, geordief said:

poor computer skills

I'm not sure how computer skills play into it.

[zapatos]

My son will occasionally use the incorrect spelling when texting. I once called him out on it and he said he knows the correct word. It is just that when communicating with certain people (parents, friends) it is easier to not switch screens to find the apostrophe, so he knowingly spells it wrong. He also stated that he would never do such a thing when inappropriate, such as at work.

Thus I believe a bit of sloppiness is acceptable, whether in dress, cleanliness of house, use of expletives, or spelling, depending on your relationship with your audience.

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, iNow said:

English is weird and it's two hard too remember witch homonym is wich. 

Also, spellcheck is an asshole sometimes.

Especially if it's American.  The 'correct' English is the one people use... it's always in flux. I've noticed American often uses archaic spellings from a UK perspective.

[swansont]

16 minutes ago, zapatos said:

My son will occasionally use the incorrect spelling when texting

u r joking.

[Genady]

3 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Especially if it's American.  The 'correct' English is the one people use... it's always in flux. I've noticed American often uses archaic spellings from a UK perspective.

 

57 minutes ago, iNow said:

The example here is NOT from North America

 

[geordief]

2 minutes ago, swansont said:

u r joking.

Thought "ur joking" was correcter

[StringJunky]

3 minutes ago, Genady said:

 

 

People can't be bothered correcting spellcheck would be the main one, I think. I do it myself if it's on. Not so much on here because people generally make the effort.

Edited July 12, 2023 by StringJunky

[iNow]

46 minutes ago, Genady said:

So, people who regularly make these word substitutions,

(a) never knew the proper way,

(b) forgot the proper way,

(c) don't care

?

That "(c) don't care" part does a lot of the heavy lifting here. The author is maybe in a rush or using a tiny keyboard so prioritizes speed over accuracy and perfection.

The author maybe doesn't care about the audience reading it, doesn't respect them or doesn't feel their ( )worth the effort, or DOES respect them and just feels it's "good enough and they'll understand what I mean."  

The author maybe doesn't care enough to improve themselves, or to bother trying to be better, or to learn new things... "I don't care about there, they're, and their..."

But not knowing the proper way is the one that I find sticks in my craw. It suggests to me the person doesn't read.

NOTE: I've had some extremely intelligent friends who suffered from a bit of dyslexia. They seemed to struggle a bit with using the correct homonym, as well. Anecdotal, and correlation isn't causation, but possibly connected. 

Edited July 12, 2023 by iNow

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, Genady said:

So, people who regularly make these word substitutions,

(a) never knew the proper way,

(b) forgot the proper way,

(c) don't care

?

In my head, I always break down words I think need an apostrophe. If I start to write "they're", I say the sentence and substitute "they are" and see if that makes sense. I think people forget the proper way, but pretend they don't care, or that it doesn't matter ("You know what I meant!").

My personal rule about "their" and "there"? Decide if it's a person or a place that's being talked about.

Spelling and grammar rules for me seem to be about memorization and patterns. A word misspelled JUMPS out at me, so "the proper way" is the ONLY way. 

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Especially if it's American.  The 'correct' English is the one people use... it's always in flux. I've noticed American often uses archaic spellings from a UK perspective.

Archaic? We think you're using too many letters in your spelling, like the extra "i" you put in "aluminum". What's archaic is words that are longer than they need to be. 

And don't get me started on pronunciation. You cook with "Bah-zil" and "or-eh-GAHN-o", eat your "VITT-a-mins" and "YOGG-urt" while watching "ad-VERT-iz-ments" about "vawzes" for your "GAIR-udj".