The West has no ability to win now.

[PeterBushMan]

The West  just cant not win, it lost all wars and all trade wars, and will lose all tech wars.

1) in WWII, Russia killed 5 million Nazi soldiers and took 4.5 Nazi soldiers as POWs. --- East Front, WW2, wiki.

France last 6 weeks and lost 2.2 million soldiers.

2) In WWII, Russia defeated 600,000 Japanese soldiers in Manchuria and lost 10,000 soldiers.

The battle of Singapore, The battle of Hong Kong, The battle of Philippines,

the battle of Indonesia are jokes.

 

3) The West lost all trade wars,  if you talk about the really GDP - buying power, China is No 1, India will be No 2 in 2050, Indonesia will be one of the top 5, Japan is No 3 now on paper. No European country will be in the top 5.

if BRICS drop the USD, the USA will be world 4th largest economy

 

The entire West cant crash Russia's economy.

 

4) Just watch the videos of those Chinese cities, have a look at their train stations, shopping centers, the USA looks like a third country.

 

 

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by PeterBushMan

[StringJunky]

Oh dear... time for me to get out the razor blade.

[PeterBushMan]

7 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Oh dear... time for me to get out the razor blade.

just watch those YouTube videos, I cant believe my eyes, if I did not see those videos,

just search "Chinese metro stations - videos",  the big mouth USA may still believe it is better.

Edited July 28, 2023 by PeterBushMan

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, PeterBushMan said:

1) in WWII, Russia killed 5 million Nazi soldiers and took 4.5 Nazi soldiers as POWs. --- East Front, WW2, wiki.

Why are you lying?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, PeterBushMan said:

The West  just cant not win, it lost all wars and all trade wars, and will lose all tech wars.

1) in WWII, Russia killed 5 million Nazi soldiers and took 4.5 Nazi soldiers as POWs. --- East Front, WW2, wiki.

France last 6 weeks and lost 2.2 million soldiers.

2) In WWII, Russia defeated 600,000 Japanese soldiers in Manchuria and lost 10,000 soldiers.

The battle of Singapore, The battle of Hong Kong, The battle of Philippines,

the battle of Indonesia are jokes.

 

3) The West lost all trade wars,  if you talk about the really GDP - buying power, China is No 1, India will be No 2 in 2050, Indonesia will be one of the top 5, Japan is No 3 now on paper. No European country will be in the top 5.

if BRICS drop the USD, the USA will be world 4th largest economy

 

The entire West cant crash Russia's economy.

 

4) Just watch the videos of those Chinese cities, have a look at their train stations, shopping centers, the USA looks like a third country.

 

 

 

Not to mention their prison camps and surveillance cameras...............

[Sensei]

 

Meanwhile, the losses of the USSR (it's not Russia! Russia was only part of the USSR)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties_of_the_Soviet_Union

Quote

World War II losses of the Soviet Union were about 27,000,000, both civilian and military from all war-related causes,[1] although exact figures are disputed. A figure of 20 million was considered official during the Soviet era. The post-Soviet government of Russia puts the Soviet war losses at 26.6 million,[2] on the basis of the 1993 study by the Russian Academy of Sciences, including people dying as a result of effects of the war.[3][4][5] This includes 8,668,400 military deaths as calculated by the Russian Ministry of Defence.[2][6][7]

 

Edited July 28, 2023 by Sensei

[Sensei]

3 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

The entire West cant crash Russia's economy.

Russia's economy is a joke. It's just one big gas and oil station. It relies heavily on oil and gas equipment shipped from Western countries.

"A proportional representation of Russia exports, 2019":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia#Energy

 

 

3 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

if you talk about the really GDP - buying power, China is No 1, India will be No 2 in 2050, Indonesia will be one of the top 5, Japan is No 3 now on paper. No European country will be in the top 5.

if BRICS drop the USD, the USA will be world 4th largest economy

A country can have a huge GDP and a huge number of people, like China and India, i.e. a single person has very little of it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

Edited July 28, 2023 by Sensei

[Phi for All]

6 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

The West  just cant not win, it lost all wars and all trade wars, and will lose all tech wars.

One of the easiest ways to spot propaganda BS is to look for the hasty generalizations. I don't know whether you're just parroting things you've heard or if you really believe this, but it's clear you've biased yourself pretty badly to be able to make such ludicrous, all-encompassing statements like this. The West lost ALL wars?! What makes you think an opinion like this, something that can SO easily be debunked, is worth the time it takes to read it?

[PeterBushMan]

On 7/28/2023 at 7:14 PM, Sensei said:

Russia's economy is a joke. It's just one big gas and oil station. It relies heavily on oil and gas equipment shipped from Western countries.

"A proportional representation of Russia exports, 2019":

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia#Energy

 

 

A country can have a huge GDP and a huge number of people, like China and India, i.e. a single person has very little of it..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

You get nothing more than an average Russian, a house and a car,

you only get a big mouth.

You can have a look at those homeless people in America,

those American make $12,000 per year, their living standard is lower than those South Americans who make $1/day.  Your GDP is a fake number.

 

On 7/28/2023 at 10:42 PM, Phi for All said:

One of the easiest ways to spot propaganda BS is to look for the hasty generalizations. I don't know whether you're just parroting things you've heard or if you really believe this, but it's clear you've biased yourself pretty badly to be able to make such ludicrous, all-encompassing statements like this. The West lost ALL wars?! What makes you think an opinion like this, something that can SO easily be debunked, is worth the time it takes to read it?

I think you are the big mouth, not others.

1) The West laughs Russia lost a war to Japan, you must forget  the battle of Singapore, and the battle of Hong Kong, Two biggest jokes in history.

 

2) Muscovy was not ruled by Mongols. Please google the map of the Mongol Empire.

But Spain was ruled by Moors for 750 years.

And Europe was invaded by Mongol long ago, Huns came form Mongolia.

Later when Mongols arrived the Danube, the European Army ran away.

 

 

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by PeterBushMan

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

You get nothing more than an average Russian, a house and a car,

you only get a big mouth.

You can have a look at those homeless people in America,

those American make $12,000 per year, their living standard is lower than those South Americans who make $1/day.  Your GDP is a fake number.

 

I think you are the big mouth, not others.

1) The West laughs Russia lost a war to Japan, you must forget  the battle of Singapore, and the battle of Hong Kong, Two biggest jokes in history.

 

2) Muscovy was not ruled by Mongols. Please google the map of the Mongol Empire.

But Spain was ruled by Moors for 750 years.

And Europe was invaded by Mongol long ago, Huns came form Mongolia.

Later when Mongols arrived the Danube, the European Army ran away.

 

 

 

Your inferiority complex is showing. I remember similar stuff from the USSR when I was a child. They were taught that Russians had invented just about every modern appliance. Their government felt the need to boost national pride by changing history. In your case, you seem preoccupied with some kind of competition that a nation "wins" or "loses". That may be how China, or Malaysia, say, is being taught to see itself, because of an uneasy awareness that it has spent the last 30 years "catching up".  But don't try to change history. Nobody "laughs" at Russia because of the war with Japan. You are imagining that. Spain - in the form of Al Andalus - was mostly under Moorish rule from about 700 to 1250, 550 years, not 750.  But why pick on that? All manner of parts of Europe and the Middle East were ruled from elsewhere for considerable periods. That's what happens in history. Nobody but you thinks in terms of "Europe" or "The West" versus everyone else. It's simplistic, childish and divisive.  

Edited August 1, 2023 by exchemist

[Genady]

The West has already won.

[Phi for All]

6 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

I think you are the big mouth, not others.

And I think your arguments are unfocused and don't address the specific points others are making in this thread, but our opinions aren't that interesting, are they? If you had any evidence to support your claims, THAT would be interesting.

[Phi for All]

On 7/28/2023 at 12:30 AM, PeterBushMan said:

The West  just cant not win,

Because you didn't bother to explain this in your opening post, what exactly are you talking about "winning"? Is there a war between Russia and "The West", or are you talking about economic competition? Please focus on one aspect of your argument at a time, because this half-assed whataboutism gets OLD very quickly.

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

PeterBushMan, you’ve been asked for clarification, and have not addressed issues that were raised. Do so, or this will be closed

 

[PeterBushMan]

On 7/28/2023 at 5:31 PM, Sensei said:

Why are you lying?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_casualties_in_World_War_II

Here are the real figures.

 

1) Russia defeated Nazis.

Russia killed 5 million Nazi soldiers, and took 4.5 million Nazi soldiers as POWs.

Eastern Front (World War II), Wikipedia

 

2) In the Battle of Stalingrad, Nazis lost 800,000 soldiers.

Battle of Stalingrad, Wikipedia

 

In the battle of Berlin, Nazis lost 600,000 soldiers.

Battle of Berlin , Wikipedia

 

In the Battle of Moscow, Russia defeat 1.9 million Nazi soldiers.

Battle of Moscow, Wikipedia

 

3) In WWII, France last 6 weeks.

France lost 2.2 Million soldiers in 6 weeks.

Nazi lost 50,000 soldiers.

Battle of France,  Wikipedia

 

4) In the Normandy Landings, Nazi lost 4000-9000 soldiers.

Normandy landings,  Wikipedia

 

 

 

Edited August 8, 2023 by PeterBushMan

[StringJunky]

12 hours ago, PeterBushMan said:

Here are the real figures.

 

1) Russia defeated Nazis.

Russia killed 5 million Nazi soldiers, and took 4.5 million Nazi soldiers as POWs.

Eastern Front (World War II), Wikipedia

 

2) In the Battle of Stalingrad, Nazis lost 800,000 soldiers.

Battle of Stalingrad, Wikipedia

 

In the battle of Berlin, Nazis lost 600,000 soldiers.

Battle of Berlin , Wikipedia

 

In the Battle of Moscow, Russia defeat 1.9 million Nazi soldiers.

Battle of Moscow, Wikipedia

 

3) In WWII, France last 6 weeks.

France lost 2.2 Million soldiers in 6 weeks.

Nazi lost 50,000 soldiers.

Battle of France,  Wikipedia

 

4) In the Normandy Landings, Nazi lost 4000-9000 soldiers.

Normandy landings,  Wikipedia

 

 

 

So what, we aren't keeping count. Each conflict is tragedy for everyone. The involved local  populations rarely have a say whether they will fight. I'm sure nobody here is enjoying reading of the deaths of conscripted and regular Russian soldiers, who are dying for the vanity project of a powerful few. Military personnel do as they are told. A fighting unit cannot be effective unless everyone is precisely on the same page. Unfortunately, this can mean doing bad things if the commanders are bad. This is the case with Russia.

e2a Let's not forget that only a very few, counting on one hand few, knew what was happening in the lead up to the war. Most of the Russian personnel thought the mobilisation  was an exercise.

Edited August 8, 2023 by StringJunky

[CharonY]

On 8/1/2023 at 12:30 AM, PeterBushMan said:

2) Muscovy was not ruled by Mongols. Please google the map of the Mongol Empire.

I think the whole discussion here is a bit on the ridiculous side, but unless one wants to apply semantic tricks (e.g. in terms of which stage of the Muscovy we talk about and/or whether being a vassal is the same as being ruled over), this is not quite accurate.

I am pretty sure you are familiar with the phrase of the Tatar-Mongol yoke, and there is a reason for that. In the early conquests of the 13th century most major cities found in the now Russian sphere were conquered and/or razed (including Moscow). The invasion also famously came to an end due to the death of Ögedei Khan. Most Rus' principalities  then became vassals. There were varying conflicts (in-fighting, but to a large part also actions against the waning power of the Mongol empire) and Moscow got burned again towards the end of the 14th century. But Mongol rule is often marked after the defeat in 1480 at the Ugra river (though tributes continued for quite a while thereafter). 

As such, the original Muscovy principality was a vassal of the Golden Horde, even as it increased its power from the mid 13th century to the end of the 15th century. One could argue that the rise of Muscovy was eventually a response to Mongol rulership and ultimately united feuding principalities. But again, none of that really matters as trying to extrapolate history to presence is really silly. 

There is a reason why seemingly almighty empires ultimately crumbled. But as others have stated, it is not even clear what a win is supposed to be. Not fighting a war would be a huge win, for example.