Steve81 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Genady said: Thank you. However, it is significantly different from the topic of our discussion, because they actually presented the processes in question, i.e., oxidation-reduction and electrolysis, rather than demonstrated them with a fake imitation, like a trampoline demonstration of black hole: Well I doubt I’m going to find a study quite that specific. But, as @Janusjust noted, the trampoline is an analogy that’s easier to visualize. Perfect, perhaps not. But students clearly like demonstration based learning based on the survey results, and it does drive interest. Edited August 13, 2023 by Steve81 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Steve81 said: Well I doubt I’m going to find a study quite that specific. But, as @Janusjust noted, the trampoline is an analogy that’s easier to visualize. Perfect, perhaps not. But students clearly like demonstrative learning based on the survey results. My point is presentation vs imitation. Trampoline is not an analogy, but an actual presentation of a non-Euclidean geometry. But not of a black hole. For one, trampoline presents a non-Euclidean geometry of space, but for GR it is essential that the geometry has to be that of spacetime. BTW, for visual presentation of non-Euclidean geometry I recommend the following book - many examples and good illustrations: Visual Differential Geometry and Forms: A Mathematical Drama in Five Acts: Needham, Tristan: 9780691203706: Amazon.com: Books 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve81 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 2 minutes ago, Genady said: My point is presentation vs imitation. Trampoline is not an analogy, but an actual presentation of a non-Euclidean geometry. But not of a black hole. For one, trampoline presents a non-Euclidean geometry of space, but for GR it is essential that the geometry has to be that of spacetime. BTW, for visual presentation of non-Euclidean geometry I recommend the following book - many examples and good illustrations: Visual Differential Geometry and Forms: A Mathematical Drama in Five Acts: Needham, Tristan: 9780691203706: Amazon.com: Books My point is imitation may be the best demonstration we can do, unless you have another idea to represent a black hole for students in a classroom? Thanks for the book recommendation. I’ll put it on my list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Steve81 said: My point is imitation may be the best demonstration we can do, unless you have another idea to represent a black hole for students in a classroom? Thanks for the book recommendation. I’ll put it on my list. The only idea I have so far is a good computer animation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve81 Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Just now, Genady said: The only idea I have so far is a good computer animation. Maybe a side project for you some day to help the students of the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genady Posted August 13, 2023 Author Share Posted August 13, 2023 6 minutes ago, Steve81 said: Maybe a side project for you some day to help the students of the future. Maybe... But for now, have a good night. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 13 hours ago, Genady said: My point is presentation vs imitation. Trampoline is not an analogy, but an actual presentation of a non-Euclidean geometry. But not of a black hole. For one, trampoline presents a non-Euclidean geometry of space, but for GR it is essential that the geometry has to be that of spacetime. BTW, for visual presentation of non-Euclidean geometry I recommend the following book - many examples and good illustrations: Visual Differential Geometry and Forms: A Mathematical Drama in Five Acts: Needham, Tristan: 9780691203706: Amazon.com: Books Thanks for both your comments about the trampoline and reminding me og that book. I looked it up again and this time found a sensibly priced version. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Four good books on geometry, curvature and gravity Norman Johnson : Geometries and Transformations - Cambridge https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Geometries_and_Transformations/adBVDwAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&printsec=frontcover Frankel : The Geometry of Physics : Cambridge https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/The_Geometry_of_Physics/2iq2EGNgX24C?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA4&printsec=frontcover Frankel : Gravitational Curvature : Freeman https://books.google.co.uk/books/about/Gravitational_Curvature.html?id=ryPyfLsgmhsC&redir_esc=y Sternberg : Curvature in Mathematics and Physics : Dover https://www.google.co.uk/books/edition/Curvature_in_Mathematics_and_Physics/CUDDAgAAQBAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&pg=PA19&printsec=frontcover Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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