How Wrong Are You.

[disobey]

  I have been to many other forums.  Mostly what i run up against is stunning stupidity.  I hope things will be different around here.  Seeing how this is a science forum.  But being good in scientific matters doesn't necessarily mean that there aren't things that even you are wrong about.  For one thing, if you are well educated, that means that you have a lot invested in your education.  Your education isn't much use without a "stable" society in which to practice it.  With that being the case, you are probably more prone to not want to "rock the boat."  Even if the boat of society needs rocking.  So instead, apart from science, you may choose ignorance.  After all, they do say that ignorance is bliss.

  There is much that most people are wrong about.  To which Samuel Clemens had something wise to say.  He said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.  It is what you are sure of that just isn't so."  Also, somebody wrote a couple books about what people don't know.  They are called, "The Book Of General Ignorance:  Everything You Think You Know Is Wrong."  I have never read them.  But then again, I don't need to.  Because I know exactly where the author is coming from.

  Obviously, our government is behind this stupidity.  Probably because the stupid are easier to rule.  Or to put it more precisely, easier to abuse.  Also, one of the things that most people are wrong about is in thinking that our system of government is a Democracy.  It isn't.  It is a Plutocracy.  Which is rule by the rich.  But to put it more precisely, our system of government is a Kakistocracy.  Which is rule by the incompetent and corrupt.

  To help prove my point, I will post a meme of something said by a former director of the CIA named William Casey.  What he said isn't something that started with him and probably still goes on.  No doubt with the help of the NSA, FBI and other such government agencies.  When you read what he said, keep in mind that what he said isn't something one American would do to other Americans.  It is what an enemy of America would do to Americans.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[iNow]

41 minutes ago, disobey said:

Obviously, our government is behind this stupidity. 

I heard it was aliens with help from the Illuminati and woke mob. 

None of this is philosophy. It’s just muck raking and soapboxxing, really. 

[swansont]

1 hour ago, disobey said:

There is much that most people are wrong about.  To which Samuel Clemens had something wise to say.  He said, "It isn't what you don't know that gets you into trouble.  It is what you are sure of that just isn't so." 

The irony here is it’s not his, it may be a Josh Billing saying. 

https://marktwainstudies.com/the-apocryphal-twain-things-we-know-that-just-aint-so/

“In his Quote Verifier, Ralph Keynes notes that some variation of the “just ain’t so” quip has been attributed not only to Twain, but also Yogi Berra, Eubie Blake, Frank “Kin” Hubbard, Charles Kettering, Will Rogers, and Artemus Ward. Keynes speculates that several of them may have borrowed the punchline from another 19th-century American humorist, Josh Billings. Among the “affurisms” listed in the 1886 edition of Billings’s complete work is the one-liner, “I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so.””

see also https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/11/18/know-trouble/?amp=1

 

1 hour ago, disobey said:

Obviously, our government is behind this stupidity.

Which one is “our” government?

[disobey]

24 minutes ago, iNow said:

I heard it was aliens with help from the Illuminati and woke mob. 

None of this is philosophy. It’s just muck raking and soapboxxing, really. 

 

  Somebody else being wrong.  How interesting.  If it isn't philosophy, what is it.  Obviously William Casey must have has some "philosophical" reasoning for saying what he did.  The question is, and you can consider it a philosophical question, do you agree with what he said or not.

[iNow]

57 minutes ago, disobey said:

If it isn't philosophy, what is it.

My current conjecture for most probable and most accurate explanation here is trolling of an uber boring variety. 

Edited August 3, 2023 by iNow

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, disobey said:

To help prove my point, I will post a meme of something said by a former director of the CIA named William Casey. 

We 'willfully ignorant' forum members love when we are presented with "proof" in the form of a meme. 

[TheVat]

5 hours ago, disobey said:

Also, one of the things that most people are wrong about is in thinking that our system of government is a Democracy.  It isn't.  It is a Plutocracy.  Which is rule by the rich.  But to put it more precisely, our system of government is a Kakistocracy.  Which is rule by the incompetent and corrupt.

The above categories aren't mutually exclusive.  

[exchemist]

5 hours ago, disobey said:

 

  Somebody else being wrong.  How interesting.  If it isn't philosophy, what is it.  Obviously William Casey must have has some "philosophical" reasoning for saying what he did.  The question is, and you can consider it a philosophical question, do you agree with what he said or not.

How can we agree or disagree with an out of context statement, relating to an unknown subject, from over 40 years ago?

[John Cuthber]

8 hours ago, disobey said:

I have never read them.  But then again, I don't need to.  Because I know...

LOL

8 hours ago, disobey said:

  It is a Plutocracy.  Which is rule by the rich.  But to put it more precisely, our system of government is a Kakistocracy.  Which is rule by the incompetent and corrupt.

It's an interesting point.
Almost any government decision is good from someone's point of view.
The current UK government is clearly plutocratic.
But within that context, the politicians arevery competent.
They are doing a fine job of making sure the rich get richer.

They aren't " incompetent and corrupt"; they are very competent in their corruption. They get away with it.

 

[Phi for All]

19 hours ago, disobey said:

Obviously, our government is behind this stupidity.

This is like saying, "Obviously, my hammer is behind all these nails being driven in". 

19 hours ago, disobey said:

Your education isn't much use without a "stable" society in which to practice it.

On the contrary, it helps even more to be educated and informed in an unstable society. Forewarned is forearmed in just about every situation.

19 hours ago, disobey said:

With that being the case, you are probably more prone to not want to "rock the boat."  Even if the boat of society needs rocking.  So instead, apart from science, you may choose ignorance.  After all, they do say that ignorance is bliss.

There's no boat. It's a system, and it's broken in many different ways. Most of those are readily identifiable, and capable of analysis and improvement. 

As science-minded folks, we'd never choose ignorance. We're here to banish as much of our own personal ignorance as possible.

I agree that society needs rocking. In the US, we have a very bad problem with racism that's been eroding quality of life ever since the country was founded. It keeps us being the world's largest jailor, a first world country that allows slavery, and a first world country without universal healthcare. We claim all people are created equal, then allow extremists to warp the system so many aren't treated as equals.

Is this the kind of ignorance you're talking about?

[disobey]

21 hours ago, swansont said:

The irony here is it’s not his, it may be a Josh Billing saying. 

https://marktwainstudies.com/the-apocryphal-twain-things-we-know-that-just-aint-so/

“In his Quote Verifier, Ralph Keynes notes that some variation of the “just ain’t so” quip has been attributed not only to Twain, but also Yogi Berra, Eubie Blake, Frank “Kin” Hubbard, Charles Kettering, Will Rogers, and Artemus Ward. Keynes speculates that several of them may have borrowed the punchline from another 19th-century American humorist, Josh Billings. Among the “affurisms” listed in the 1886 edition of Billings’s complete work is the one-liner, “I honestly beleave it iz better tew know nothing than two know what ain’t so.””

see also https://quoteinvestigator.com/2018/11/18/know-trouble/?amp=1

 

Which one is “our” government?

 

  You may be right.  Samuel Clemens probably didn't say it.  As to "our" government, who was it that William Casey worked for. 

20 hours ago, iNow said:

My current conjecture for most probable and most accurate explanation here is trolling of an uber boring variety. 

 

  So, you follow the "full of it" philosophy.  That's interesting to know.

19 hours ago, zapatos said:

We 'willfully ignorant' forum members love when we are presented with "proof" in the form of a meme. 

 

  It may have been a meme.  But that doesn't make it untrue.  And isn't that what philosophy is all about?  Seeking truth?

17 hours ago, TheVat said:

The above categories aren't mutually exclusive.  

 

  I never said they were.  The things I mentioned are all one in the same.  Just boiled down to their basic essence.  Kakistocracy.  But even that may not be the bottom line.  Because if there is a term for rule by the criminally insane, that would be the rock bottom actually correct term for our system of government.  But if such a term exists, I'm not aware of it.

16 hours ago, exchemist said:

How can we agree or disagree with an out of context statement, relating to an unknown subject, from over 40 years ago?

 

  Everything in my thread couldn't have been any more in context.  The mutual context being the ignorance of the vast majority of people.  And that truthful fact is the current state of affairs.  Not an "unknown subject."

14 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

LOL

It's an interesting point.
Almost any government decision is good from someone's point of view.
The current UK government is clearly plutocratic.
But within that context, the politicians arevery competent.
They are doing a fine job of making sure the rich get richer.

They aren't " incompetent and corrupt"; they are very competent in their corruption. They get away with it.

 

 

  When it gets right down to it, every government is probably a plutocratic one.  Also, the very act of being corrupt by itself shows incompetence.  

[swansont]

27 minutes ago, disobey said:

As to "our" government, who was it that William Casey worked for. 

You said “our government” before referencing Casey, and didn’t exactly make a direct connection.

Protip: we can’t read your mind, so you need to do better (much better) in providing context and making rigorous arguments.

[disobey]

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

This is like saying, "Obviously, my hammer is behind all these nails being driven in". 

On the contrary, it helps even more to be educated and informed in an unstable society. Forewarned is forearmed in just about every situation.

There's no boat. It's a system, and it's broken in many different ways. Most of those are readily identifiable, and capable of analysis and improvement. 

As science-minded folks, we'd never choose ignorance. We're here to banish as much of our own personal ignorance as possible.

I agree that society needs rocking. In the US, we have a very bad problem with racism that's been eroding quality of life ever since the country was founded. It keeps us being the world's largest jailor, a first world country that allows slavery, and a first world country without universal healthcare. We claim all people are created equal, then allow extremists to warp the system so many aren't treated as equals.

Is this the kind of ignorance you're talking about?

 

  1.  For everything bad in our society, the buck stops with our government.  If the vast majority of people are ignorant, our government is to blame. 

  2.  Next, being educated and informed are two different things.  Education often means knowing enough to be a useful tool to society.  Also, as I said, being educated likely means being invested in the status quo society.  As such, the educated are less likely to want to see change to that system.

  3.  As for rocking the boat, it appears that you have missed the whole point of my thread.  Chances are, (despite any educatuon you may have) for most of everything you think is right or true, the exact opposite is almost certainly the case.  And as for the solution to any problem goes, just think of whatever this or any other forum won't allow you to say.  That is the answer!

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, disobey said:

It may have been a meme.  But that doesn't make it untrue.  And isn't that what philosophy is all about?  Seeking truth?

I remember using that argument with my mom when I was a kid.

"But mom, why can't I have cake for breakfast? Cake is made from milk, eggs, and wheat which are all healthy foods. Don't you want me to be healthy?"

1 hour ago, disobey said:

  1.  For everything bad in our society, the buck stops with our government.  If the vast majority of people are ignorant, our government is to blame. 

 

Wow. What a massive abdication of personal responsibility. I'm speechless. I'm without speech.

1 hour ago, disobey said:

for most of everything you think is right or true, the exact opposite is almost certainly the case.

Could you please provide a handful of examples?

[exchemist]

12 hours ago, disobey said:

 

 

 

  Everything in my thread couldn't have been any more in context.  The mutual context being the ignorance of the vast majority of people.  And that truthful fact is the current state of affairs.  Not an "unknown subject."

 

  

You have misunderstood me. I am referring to the lack of context for the quoted remark of Casey. Without context, we have no way to know what CIA programme he may have been referring to, whether it was a joke, or intended ironically, whether he was being sarcastic, or what.

This is the trouble with quote-mining.

So, in the absence of such further information, it makes little sense to ask us whether we agree or disagree with what Casey is reported to have said, 40 years ago.  

[John Cuthber]

17 hours ago, disobey said:

Also, the very act of being corrupt by itself shows incompetence.  

No.
That's my point.
It shows that they are competent criminals.