The Philosophy Of Freedom Of Speech.

[Steve81]

4 hours ago, disobey said:

  Too bad freedom of speech didn't remind you of freedom of speech.  Let a thing be said.  Then, if you have a problem with it, speak it.  If you are right, the matter will be settled.

 

Oddly enough, my post was meant to be in support of free speech. Of course judging by your post about the holocaust, I’d have you judge you as falling into the “noise” category of my post.

[Phi for All]

4 hours ago, disobey said:

I could tell you MANY true things.  But I'm just not allowed to, here.

I can tell you're just going to be turning people's stomachs with your "truth". I'm very sorry for the hurtful things that were done to you as a child. Please get some help.

[Sensei]

6 hours ago, disobey said:

  Did you even read those quotes?  Apparently not.

..should I care about quotes from slave owners.. ? misogynists.. ? racists.. ?

 

They treated people of other races, women, children as slaves..

 

 

"Passed by Congress February 26, 1869, and ratified February 3, 1870, the 15th Amendment granted African American men the right to vote."

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/15th-amendment

 

Meanwhile, white (and all other) women..

"Passed by Congress June 4, 1919, and ratified on August 18, 1920, the 19th amendment granted women the right to vote."

https://www.archives.gov/milestone-documents/19th-amendment

 

(50 years later, after black men gained the right to vote, white/black/whatever women gained the right to vote)

 

Edited August 5, 2023 by Sensei

[mistermack]

11 hours ago, disobey said:

In my experience, the only way for somebody at any forum to refute what I said is to do so after I've been banned.

This reminds me of the people who think that they are Napoleon. You can refute it perfectly, using excellent evidence, and all of the rational people will agree, but the deluded one will still be perfectly happy and convinced that they are Napoleon. 

You delusion appears to be that you are supremely logical, and the rest of the world are idiots.  But so long as it makes you happy . . . . . .

[Phi for All]

14 hours ago, disobey said:

Define "fuck off."  Then do it.  As in stop wasting my time with your delusional lunacy. 

!

Moderator Note

It's called discussion, and we do it civilly here. It requires that people question what you say, and it requires your good faith in response. You need to leave here and never come back. Go hate the world from your own frame of reference.

 

[TheVat]

12 hours ago, zapatos said:

Quit keeping us in suspense. Tell us just one. Please.

I suppose, for zoological purposes, we could have one thread that temporarily suspends the SFN ban on holocaust denial or Jewish replacement theory or whatever his mind-blowing ideas are, let Diso present his purported truths and evidence, and then see how he handles rebuttal.   When I suggested some rebutting lines of evidence earlier, he told me to "fuck off," which seemed like he was...um....trying to silence me.  It was almost like that cancel culture he's so upset about had taken him onboard.

[swansont]

10 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I suppose, for zoological purposes, we could have one thread that temporarily suspends the SFN ban on holocaust denial or Jewish replacement theory or whatever his mind-blowing ideas are, let Diso present his purported truths and evidence, and then see how he handles rebuttal.   When I suggested some rebutting lines of evidence earlier, he told me to "fuck off," which seemed like he was...um....trying to silence me.  It was almost like that cancel culture he's so upset about had taken him onboard.

I know that this is one approach, but another is to not give such tripe any oxygen. The problem here is the assumption that one is dealing with people truly interested in rational discourse, rather than trying to appeal to emotion, and also the assumption that they will argue in good faith.

We have too many examples of this not being the case.

Diso had many of the hallmarks of someone showing up to stir the pot until they got banned, so they can tell themselves they were persecuted for telling the truth instead of the reality that they were being insufferably boorish, and also boring, and it’s just not worth having them around. The “I am a legend in my mind” folks are a dime a dozen.

[StringJunky]

Pseudo-Galileo's live on. Narcissism is everywhere.

Edited August 5, 2023 by StringJunky

[mistermack]

When they first posted, I was hoping that nobody would post a reply at all, it was so obvious what they were at.

But once replies came in, I was tempted to give my own two pence worth. 

Maybe when the next one descends on the place, we could resist the temptation, and let it stew? 

Wishful thinking probably. 

[Genady]

Good. I can empty my ignore list again. My wishful thinking agrees with the previous post.

[Phi for All]

21 minutes ago, swansont said:

I know that this is one approach, but another is to not give such tripe any oxygen.

What folks like that don't understand is that we've heard, debunked, reheard, and redebunked everything they keep on about. They don't listen when their ideas are picked apart, because they lack the critical thinking skills required. It does no good to explain it to them because they don't understand and don't want to. So depriving the tripe of oxygen isn't trying to silence them, it's more like trying to shut them up because they won't stop yelling ignorant filth at the top of lungs while visiting our study group.

4 minutes ago, mistermack said:

Maybe when the next one descends on the place, we could resist the temptation, and let it stew? 

I'd love it if the next overt racist was met with a wall of indifference. 

 

[iNow]

2 hours ago, swansont said:

many of the hallmarks of someone showing up to stir the pot until they got banned, so they can tell themselves they were persecuted for telling the truth instead of the reality that they were being insufferably boorish, and also boring, and it’s just not worth having them around.

All of this above, and also sometimes these “poop on the doorstep” and “toilet paper your front yard” hit and run posters have something to prove… literally.

Sometimes, these wastes of pot stirring bandwidth are attempting to meet acceptance criteria and gain access to various blackhat style groups elsewhere; private “l33t!” communities where darker less legal things are discussed.

Much like the greek college system of pledging fraternities and sororities, sad lonely incel souls like these must first prove they’ve been banned from at least X diff sites like these before being granted entry. 

So, they come rush through the open front door, shit on the carpet, yell at all the guests and call them dumb, then get told “k-bai.” Voila. Mission accomplished.

Sadly, another aspect is trolls and bots being paid by state and nefarious other actors to simply keep everyone mad at each other agitated… regardless of the topic. We’re easier to control and rob from when we’re mad scared and yelling at each other. 

Also, some just want attention. Probably bc mommy didn’t give them enough as infants. It’s really very… infantile. 

Edited August 5, 2023 by iNow

[TheVat]

4 hours ago, mistermack said:

When they first posted, I was hoping that nobody would post a reply at all, it was so obvious what they were at.

But once replies came in, I was tempted to give my own two pence worth. 

Maybe when the next one descends on the place, we could resist the temptation, and let it stew? 

Wishful thinking probably. 

Some merit to the cold shoulder approach.  Though confrontation did elicit the responses from him that led to prompt banning.  So maybe offer them enough rope to hang themselves can be viable, too.   

 

2 hours ago, iNow said:

Sometimes, these wastes of pot stirring bandwidth are attempting to meet acceptance criteria and gain access to various blackhat style groups elsewhere; private “l33t!” communities where darker less legal things are discussed.

Much like the greek college system of pledging fraternities and sororities, sad lonely incel souls like these must first prove they’ve been banned from at least X diff sites like these before being granted entry.

 Disturbingly plausible.  On reflection, there was something kind of self-immolating about him.  

 

[iNow]

5 minutes ago, TheVat said:

confrontation did elicit the responses from him that led to prompt banning.  So maybe offer them enough rope to hang themselves can be viable, too. 

Much merit found along this path, as well ✌🏼

[TheVat]

Because I had recently read about the Far Right web personality, Bronze Age Pervert, in The Atlantic....

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/09/bronze-age-pervert-costin-alamariu/674762/

....it did cross my mind that our recent vorpal sword swinging manxome foe seeking visitor seemed to share some of that lunatic energy.  

BAP interests me among other reasons because we both passed through the stellar Newton, Massachusetts school system.  Though at different times and with different outcomes.  (and our family was there for only three years before returning to a more Midwest locale)

 

[richards1]

It's free, in your own room, on your own, if you keep your voice down please.

[TheVat]

19 hours ago, TheVat said:

Because I had recently read about the Far Right web personality, Bronze Age Pervert, in The Atlantic....

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2023/09/bronze-age-pervert-costin-alamariu/674762/

....it did cross my mind that our recent vorpal sword swinging manxome foe seeking visitor seemed to share some of that lunatic energy.  

Sorry, that link just gives a teaser paragraph.  Here's an archived screenshot of the entire article...

https://archive.li/dwBnz

[MSC]

On 8/5/2023 at 10:25 AM, Phi for All said:

I'd love it if the next overt racist was met with a wall of indifference. 

I don't know if indifference is what I want any racist to be met with. There is a fine line between turning the other cheek and tolerating intolerance, which leads to the remission of tolerance. 

On 8/5/2023 at 10:25 AM, Phi for All said:

What folks like that don't understand is that we've heard, debunked, reheard, and redebunked everything they keep on about. They don't listen when their ideas are picked apart, because they lack the critical thinking skills required. It does no good to explain it to them because they don't understand and don't want to. So depriving the tripe of oxygen isn't trying to silence them, it's more like trying to shut them up because they won't stop yelling ignorant filth at the top of lungs while visiting our study group

Exactly, not tolerating intolerance. That said, and this is the reason I wouldn't be a good moderator, and not having the power to ban people... or stop myself from being banned when I let people push buttons and get myself confused... I just go full polemical. 

But reading Diso, it was clear to see he was referring to the rules about bigotry not being tolerated here, so banning was the right choice. 

I just don't understand why everyone that talks about free speech like this on the forum, doesn't see how the forum banning them, is also an exercise of free speech. Fuck off is speech. Falling asleep because someone is boring af is communicating. Actions speak louder than words, but louder doesn't mean words are not loud.

What the dude really meant, was that he thought his right to free speech superseded everyone elses right to it too. 

@iNowbtw you're not gonna be able to push my buttons again lmao. My next door neighbor for the past year and a half was Nick Fucking Fuentes and he's still my ex wife and daughters neighbour-.- so yeah, that has developed a lot more self control. I'm sorry for what I said to you last we spoke. Was just angry and confused and you can admit that you enjoy provoking me just a bit lol

[mistermack]

48 minutes ago, MSC said:

I don't know if indifference is what I want any racist to be met with. There is a fine line between turning the other cheek and tolerating intolerance, which leads to the remission of tolerance. 

In this case, it was pretty obvious that the guy wanted to be shouted down, wanted to be banned, and to portray it as big brother silencing the brave little guy. I just thought, "what would disappoint him the most?" and that was being ignored. I don't think it would play out though, it would take all readers to be on the same wavelength which is very unlikely. 

[MSC]

10 minutes ago, mistermack said:

In this case, it was pretty obvious that the guy wanted to be shouted down, wanted to be banned, and to portray it as big brother silencing the brave little guy. I just thought, "what would disappoint him the most?" and that was being ignored. I don't think it would play out though, it would take all readers to be on the same wavelength which is very unlikely. 

This is true, although ignoring them might have a different effect, making this mf thinking it's safe to invite all their creepy alt-right chatroom friends here to grief the place. Kicking them out asap keeps reinforcing the message, when they go to their echo chambers to bitch, that the views won't be tolerated. 

I mean don't get me wrong; if there was the venue, the time, and the patience for it, somebody, but not me, should give unbrainwashing these people a try. Preferably someone that knows them that gives a shit. These people tire me though. I got enough problems. 

[studiot]

44 minutes ago, mistermack said:

and that was being ignored. I don't think it would play out though, it would take all readers to be on the same wavelength which is very unlikely. 

I rather thought that I was doing a pretty good job of ignoring.

🙂

[iNow]

17 hours ago, MSC said:

@iNowbtw you're not gonna be able to push my buttons again lmao.  <…> I'm sorry for what I said to you last we spoke. Was just angry and confused and you can admit that you enjoy provoking me just a bit lol

Sorry, but who are you again? Can’t say I recall any exchanges with you nor anything else about you nor your posting history really, but appreciate the apology all the same. Peace to you and yours