Natural of dog food, which is better?

[grayson]

I don't do this to my dog. But I wander if cooked meat is better for your dog than dog food. We all know processed meats are "bad" And if you think in a technical sense, dog food is processed. So, I was thinking, why not read them meat instead of dog food? Obviously cook it first to get rid of dangerous bacteria. and give them a blend of veggies. And give them some variety so they don't eat bacon every day. So the question is, Dog food, or meat?

[iNow]

Not all dog foods are the same, but essentially all have meat. All you’re proposing is subtracting balance from a diet, not improving it. 

[grayson]

All proccesed meats are meats. Are you saying spam is good for you?

[iNow]

Yep. Exactly. It’s so nice being understood. /snark

[raphaelh42]

shouldn't dogs eat like wolfs?

Edited September 4, 2023 by raphaelh42

[Bufofrog]

18 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

shouldn't dogs eat like wolfs?

No, dogs have evolved to have a different diet than a wolf due to their association with people.

[iNow]

48 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

shouldn't dogs eat like wolfs?

Why stop there? Feed them kelp. We all evolved from fish, after all. 

[geordief]

I think vets prefer dogs are given dry food (in biscuit form).

But dogs themselves generally like whatever you are having.

I refuse to accommodate this  behaviour but other family members feed them at the table like performing seals.

I don't think it does too much harm if it is not overdone and ,anyway once the excitement of the human meal is over they will head off to finish it off with their own food from the bag and the bowl of water.

They seem to have the eating arrangements down to a fine art.

[Peterkin]

Read the ingredients. Canned dogfood is some meat, maybe some 'meat byproducts' - which may be anything from pigs' ears to chicken beaks to fish meal to floor-sweepings in a slaughterhouse - and there might be vegetables (carrots, turnips, peanuts), artificial flavour, maybe some vitamins, and lots of water. The proportions depend on the brand - more meat in the really expensive ones.

Dry dogfood is mostly cornmeal, rice, beet pulp, meat byproducts, maybe soy.

There is nothing wrong with including vegetables in a dog's diet; they need some fibre - especially if they're not very active - and most dogs also like celery, carrots and broccoli. Wolves also eat berries, carrots and apples. You just have to make sure they get enough protein, fat, calcium and vitamins. Ground bones would be fine, and chewing on a large bone or sinew is good for their teeth, thin bones, like chicken legs or pork ribs, especially if cooked, can be deadly: they break into sharp points that can puncture a dog's intestines. Raw bones are less likely to splinter, but can still cause trouble. 

Domestic dogs are fine with cooked meat and broth. There is some suggestion that feeding them raw meat might promote aggression or at least a craving for the hunt - which could be really unfortunate in a city setting and downright lethal to a dog in the country - but I don't know how whether it's true. Some butchers do cater to the raw dogfood trade.

I used to make my own dogfood -  meat, cereal, vegetable and supplements - which cost about the same as canned food at the time. Now I cook chicken for the cats, to serve alongside dry food - and it's way cheaper than whatever is in the tiny cans.  

If you feed your dogs human food, that's fine, as long as you avoid giving them onion &garlic, chocolate or anything with caffeine, anything alcoholic or fermented and xylitol. It's a good idea to avoid real sugar, too, and dairy products. They love ice cream and cheese but large amounts of either can wreak havoc on their digestive system.

(I once gave the remainder of the cottage cheese and sour cream in my fridge to the dogs before we left a house and packed them into the truck. Two of them were okay; the third had galloping diarrhea all the way across California and Nevada. Really no fun for any of us!)  

Edited September 4, 2023 by Peterkin

[geordief]

6 hours ago, Peterkin said:

(not to give them) onion &garlic, chocolate or anything with caffeine,

Plus leeks and anything from the onion family?

Is wine in sauces also bad?

[Steve81]

I usually used high quality dry food with a bit of gravy mixed in for additional flavor. Never had complaints from the doggie. AFAIK, dry food is preferred for dental health.

[Peterkin]

8 hours ago, geordief said:

Plus leeks and anything from the onion family?

Is wine in sauces also bad?

Yes, leeks are included: 

Quote

Onions contain a toxic principle known as N-propyl disulfide. This compound causes a breakdown of red blood cells, leading to anemia in dogs. The toxin causes oxidative damage to your dog's red blood cells by attaching to the oxygen molecules in those cells.  - ACC

The wine in a sauce probably doesn't amount to much, and if it's cooked, the alcohol will have boiled off anyway. I've heard of dogs getting drunk (some people think that's a joke), so it's not directly toxic, but it depresses their respiration and body temperature, so an older dog, or one with other health issues, could actually die.   

7 hours ago, Steve81 said:

dry food is preferred for dental health.

Hard bisquits and tendon chews are better; some kibbles dissolve and add to plaque formation - according a vet we used to see.

You can also bake your own dog bisquits quite cheaply.

[Ayass Researc]

 

Choosing between natural and non-natural dog food depends on your budget, your dog's specific dietary needs, ingredient quality, and personal preferences. Consult your veterinarian for tailored advice and consider what aligns best with your dog's health and your values as a pet owner.

[LuckyR]

In the dog food world, there are micro nutrient requirements (vitamins and minerals) that every dog food must have. Just giving meat isn't going to supply that. However when choosing between dog foods (since all of them meet the micro nutrient requirements), you should choose on the macro nutrients. Basically the higher the protein content (excluding pea protein), the better the food.

Edited September 14 by LuckyR

[TheVat]

8 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Basically the higher the protein content (excluding pea protein), the better the food.

Not necessarily.  Dogs, unlike cats, or their ancestors wolves, are not obligate carnivores and are more omnivorous.  Their GI tract will benefit more from roughage and some plant nutrients, so protein levels are just one part of the equation.  

One example is that dogs have the genes that produce amylase. Wolves do not produce amylase, which breaks down starch in the diet; modern dogs do, suggesting an adaptation to process plant-based foods as would be found in a scavenger diet.

While a wolf or a cat can get all it needs from animal muscle meat and organ meats, plants provide dogs with beneficial fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, enzymes and phytonutrients not found in meat.  They help it maintain a gut biome that it needs for optimal nutrition.  So rather than rely on protein content, you should look at the overall balance and type of plant materials in the dog food.  When I was researching this for my dog (RIP), for example, I found that oats, millet and brown rice were better for him, while wheat and corn were best avoided.  Of course, cheap dog foods tend to have a lot of corn and wheat (we used to call it "corn stink").  

[geordief]

On 9/4/2023 at 8:32 PM, Peterkin said:

You can also bake your own dog bisquits quite cheaply.

I missed that  last year . Do you have a recipe?

This fairly recent  thread I found on reddit  argues against expecting to achieve results that would save money and that it could be unhealthy  if done without expertise.

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/14esy2w/how_do_i_make_dog_food_on_the_cheap/

 

 

 

[LuckyR]

15 hours ago, TheVat said:

Not necessarily.  Dogs, unlike cats, or their ancestors wolves, are not obligate carnivores and are more omnivorous.  Their GI tract will benefit more from roughage and some plant nutrients, so protein levels are just one part of the equation.  

One example is that dogs have the genes that produce amylase. Wolves do not produce amylase, which breaks down starch in the diet; modern dogs do, suggesting an adaptation to process plant-based foods as would be found in a scavenger diet.

While a wolf or a cat can get all it needs from animal muscle meat and organ meats, plants provide dogs with beneficial fiber, vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, enzymes and phytonutrients not found in meat.  They help it maintain a gut biome that it needs for optimal nutrition.  So rather than rely on protein content, you should look at the overall balance and type of plant materials in the dog food.  When I was researching this for my dog (RIP), for example, I found that oats, millet and brown rice were better for him, while wheat and corn were best avoided.  Of course, cheap dog foods tend to have a lot of corn and wheat (we used to call it "corn stink").  

True, it's possible to concoct a high protein/low quality dog food. But in the marketplace protein is expensive, plants are (relatively) cheap. So high protein (excluding pea protein) dog foods are generally expensive, boutique and made by companies who are trying to make the best quality food they can. It's a simple way of weeding out the crap brands.

[Peterkin]

20 hours ago, geordief said:

Do you have a recipe?

I don't even have a dog. Not for many years now. I recall the bisquits were mainly oatmeal and shredded carrot, some kind of fat - ?chicken - nutritional yeast and flax seed. Nothing very complicated.

In that discussion, they were talking about making your own dogfood. I don't see how it could be any more harmful than table scraps, which is what all dogs used to eat in the several thousand years before we had everything manufactured.

I did cook for our dog at one time, because she had health issues and the specially formulated commercial stuff was wildly expensive.

[geordief]

44 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

I don't even have a dog. Not for many years now. I recall the bisquits were mainly oatmeal and shredded carrot, some kind of fat - ?chicken - nutritional yeast and flax seed. Nothing very complicated.

In that discussion, they were talking about making your own dogfood. I don't see how it could be any more harmful than table scraps, which is what all dogs used to eat in the several thousand years before we had everything manufactured.

I did cook for our dog at one time, because she had health issues and the specially formulated commercial stuff was wildly expensive.

Yes I make him up something if we run out of biscuits. It would be bread and butter with milk  and  a little bit of chicken pieces.

He also gets the scraps from our dinner plates.

 

But the biscuits are popular (he waits until there is no more  really good stuff before  heading off there) and I understand that the stinky smell is attractive to them. 

[Peterkin]

Some dogs also think a stick of raw celery or a carrot are treats. A neighbour's dog used to bring mine apples as a gift, because he liked apple. She didn't eat them, but she'd play with them, so the besotted pup was happy.

[TheVat]

1 hour ago, geordief said:

Yes I make him up something if we run out of biscuits. It would be bread and butter with milk  and  a little bit of chicken pieces.

He also gets the scraps from our dinner plates.

OK as treats though I'd add that dogs don't digest milk well, and it can also lead to kidney stones.  Bread and butter is good with a bit of roughage, like green peas or the vegs @Peterkin mentioned.  I've noticed dogs, like humans, can have a sweet tooth so carrots and peas are appealing due to their slight sweetness.  

[geordief]

25 minutes ago, TheVat said:

dogs don't digest milk well, and it can also lead to kidney stones. 

OK , so watery milk next time with the bread.

 

I see something similar applies to  butter -not toxic but not good.

 

.....I think this is a good argument for commercial biscuits  as this kind of knowledge is  hopefully  included in the product and amateur mistakes are  avoided.

[Peterkin]

8 minutes ago, geordief said:

think this is a good argument for commercial biscuits  as this kind of knowledge is  hopefully  included in the product and amateur mistakes are  avoided.

You can look up wholesome, vet-approved recipes. There are lots on the internet - most seem to feature peanut butter, which mkes sense; it's a popular taste.

For giving medicine to a dog, the best thing my mother invented was a catfood sandwich. Cats are more discriminating eaters, so their food tastes and smells better. You spread it on soft bread slices and tuck the pill into one corner. I used an extra diversionary tactic for an extra pill-phobic dog: I would share the sandwich, one bite at a time, among all three of them, reserving that last piece with a thumb on it, for the sick one.  

[geordief]

27 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

You can look up wholesome, vet-approved recipes. There are lots on the internet - most seem to feature peanut butter, which mkes sense; it's a popular taste.

For giving medicine to a dog, the best thing my mother invented was a catfood sandwich. Cats are more discriminating eaters, so their food tastes and smells better. You spread it on soft bread slices and tuck the pill into one corner. I used an extra diversionary tactic for an extra pill-phobic dog: I would share the sandwich, one bite at a time, among all three of them, reserving that last piece with a thumb on it, for the sick one.  

I had been wondering lately  if we are all competitive eaters as I have noticed that in myself-and certainly the dog.

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Some dogs also think a stick of raw celery or a carrot are treats. A neighbour's dog used to bring mine apples as a gift, because he liked apple. She didn't eat them, but she'd play with them, so the besotted pup was happy.

My son's dog eats ice cubes as treats. We've fed him as many as 15 in a row before he quit waiting for more.