What are the benefits of God?

[dimreepr]

I put this topic here instead of the lounge, because it's a pseudo-joke...

I'll start:

I get a warm feeling, when I think about the horrendous things Jimmy Saville did to children, by imagining what the god of his victims did to him, when he died before he faced true justice...

[Intoscience]

22 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I get a warm feeling, when I think about the horrendous things Jimmy Saville did to children, by imagining what the god of his victims did to him, when he died before he faced true justice..

I would have structured the sentence differently, because when I read the first part it came across as though you condoned Jimmy Saville's actions. Any person/s who abuse children deserve something!

[dimreepr]

46 minutes ago, Intoscience said:

I would have structured the sentence differently, because when I read the first part it came across as though you condoned Jimmy Saville's actions. Any person/s who abuse children deserve something!

So, in a way being an atheist condones his actions, because he died before he got punished, we all know he deserved to be punished, and the only way that that can happen, is in the imagination of a believer...

[Sensei]

To paraphrase you,

"What are the benefits of the existence of an A.I creator, asked by an A.I?"

"What are the benefits of a parent's existence, asked by a child?

Edited September 14, 2023 by Sensei

[Sensei]

On 9/13/2023 at 4:11 PM, dimreepr said:

I get a warm feeling, when I think about the horrendous things Jimmy Saville did to children, by imagining what the god of his victims did to him, when he died before he faced true justice...

Isn't death the ultimate punishment for an atheist?

 

[TheVat]

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

Isn't death the ultimate punishment for an atheist?

 

There is no logical requirement that a universe without a god must also have no afterlife.  One could disbelieve in a god but still believe in some information structure of spacetime, or connectedness throughout a biosphere, which gives continuity to personal consciousness.  Or one could believe that personal consciousness is an illusion and all consciousness is connected but not through a deity.  There are literally thousands of metaphysical belief systems which require no deity.  

[mistermack]

On 9/13/2023 at 3:11 PM, dimreepr said:

I get a warm feeling, when I think about the horrendous things Jimmy Saville did to children, by imagining what the god of his victims did to him, when he died before he faced true justice...

Back in reality, Jimmy Saville died an innocent man. But that's the advantage of an imaginary god, you can make him do whatever you like. 

[Intoscience]

14 hours ago, Sensei said:

Isn't death the ultimate punishment for an atheist?

 

Or the ultimate escape.

Depending on your beliefs. If a person is an atheist who doesn't believe in any form of after life or transcendence, or reincarnation then death means full stop, the end in every sense. 

But you can be an atheist and believe in some form of continuum. (as per what The Vat stated) 

18 hours ago, dimreepr said:

So, in a way being an atheist condones his actions, because he died before he got punished, we all know he deserved to be punished, and the only way that that can happen, is in the imagination of a believer...

For a person to be be punished then they need to be judged. 

[Peterkin]

On 9/13/2023 at 10:11 AM, dimreepr said:

I get a warm feeling, when I think about the horrendous things Jimmy Saville did to children, by imagining what the god of his victims did to him, when he died before he faced true justice...

What's 'true justice'? A concept; something we imagine to be possible, but never bring about to everyone's satisfaction. 

Just as there might be some form of continued existence in the absence of deity, there is also no guarantee that a god or even God metes out justice in a conscious personal afterlife, or by what standards of right and wrong it operates. We only have the words of interpreters of old text - who have been mistaken and downright mendacious on many subjects. 

So, the benefits you're asking about are of faith - a castle in the clouds. Those benefits are real for many people - far too often at the detriment of many other people.

Edited September 15, 2023 by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

38 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

What's 'true justice'? A concept; something we imagine to be possible, but never bring about to everyone's satisfaction.

Indeed, but not everyone needs to be satisfied, just you.

 

7 hours ago, Intoscience said:

For a person to be be punished then they need to be judged. 

If I make a judgement, that you're different from me; what is the punishment for that????

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

Indeed, but not everyone needs to be satisfied, just you.

I don't need top think a god will extract revenge or bestow rewards on my behalf, so that's a moot point.

If there is a benefit to be had in imaginary justice, it's from the imagined application, not the imagined agency. 

[dimreepr]

18 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I don't need top think a god will extract revenge or bestow rewards on my behalf, so that's a moot point.

It's not moot to those that do need the solice.

18 hours ago, Peterkin said:

If there is a benefit to be had in imaginary justice, it's from the imagined application, not the imagined agency.

When people can see that justice has been served, then no imagination is required; but the reason people think revenge is justified, is because they didn't get too see the little scrote be remorseful.

If they want peace of mind, they have to forgive the lil scrote and their imagination is often the only place too look. 

[Peterkin]

30 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

If they want peace of mind, they have to forgive the lil scrote and their imagination is often the only place too look.

Yes. Therefore, the correct question is: What are the benefits of imagination?

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Yes. Therefore, the correct question is: What are the benefits of imagination?

I think the correct question is, how do we replace the benefits of imagination, with cold hard facts?

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

I think the correct question is, how do we replace the benefits of imagination, with cold hard facts?

Yes, that's also a question. Nice to see God left out of it.

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Yes, that's also a question. Nice to see God left out of it.

For you perhaps, but isn't it a bit smug to assume you know better?

Do you have what it takes to be the übermensch?

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

or you perhaps, but isn't it a bit smug to assume you know better?

Know what better than who does?

I assume that I know some things better than some people, and that I know some things imperfectly or not at all, while some other people know those other things far better or a little better than I do.

I've never met a god, and don't claim to know them at all, but I've read and heard quite a lot about many of them. I assume some people know more about them than I do and some people know less.

Edited September 18, 2023 by Peterkin

[dimreepr]

22 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Know what better than who does?

I assume that I know some things better than some people, and that I know some things imperfectly or not at all, while some other people know those other things far better or a little better than I do.

I've never met a god, and don't claim to know them at all, but I've read and heard quite a lot about many of them. I assume some people know more about them than I do and some people know less.

For me this is the difference between a tax and a tythe, people are happy to pay a tythe, even if they have no intention of being benevolent; just in case.

22 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I assume that I know some things better than some people

Perchance he for whom this bell tolls may be so ill, as that he knows not it tolls for him; and perchance I may think myself so much better than I am.... -John Donne.

[Knowledge Enthusiast]

God can be thought of as ultimate kindness. He loves all of us equally and so we should be kind to each other also. There will always be mistrust among groups but as long as the most powerful leads with the heart of ultimate kindness and then use the smartest minds to make kindness a reality, then we may have a chance to achieve heaven in this universe of ours going forward into the year three trillion and beyond. Gods may disagree with their approach to their ultimate kindness but they are all ultimately kind nonetheless because it is God who created everything after all.

[mistermack]

Since gods are imaginary beings, they can be anything you like. And have been down the ages. There's a huge range, and everybody creates their own version of their favourite. 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Knowledge Enthusiast said:

God can be thought of as ultimate kindness. He loves all of us equally and so we should be kind to each other also.

This seems so hypocritical to me, since the Abrahamic god will send you to hell for eternity while it's loving all of us equally. But this is the number one benefit to god imo; one can use it to manipulate the fearful and ignorant. 

[Knowledge Enthusiast]

@Phi for AllI am not an expert on religions but to me, if God created everything, God should only want to condemn things that God could not help but introduce that destroy the very thing that he built.

[Phi for All]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:03 AM, Knowledge Enthusiast said:

@Phi for AllI am not an expert on religions but to me, if God created everything, God should only want to condemn things that God could not help but introduce that destroy the very thing that he built.

I perceive this as an anti-benefit. Your god is supposed to be all-powerful, all-knowing, yet it makes us imperfectly and condemns us for not overcoming these imperfections?! That doesn't seem like a wise, benevolent demeanor. It seems like what a child would do when it's not getting enough attention.

[dimreepr]

On 11/15/2023 at 12:58 PM, Knowledge Enthusiast said:

God can be thought of as ultimate kindness. He loves all of us equally and so we should be kind to each other also. There will always be mistrust among groups but as long as the most powerful leads with the heart of ultimate kindness and then use the smartest minds to make kindness a reality, then we may have a chance to achieve heaven in this universe of ours going forward into the year three trillion and beyond. Gods may disagree with their approach to their ultimate kindness but they are all ultimately kind nonetheless because it is God who created everything after all.

You seem very confused, as to what benefits us.

It's perfectly possible to kill with kindness; for instance, it would seem to be very kind to feed a hungry child, but if a ten year old is twice your weight, maybe you need to be cruel to be kind.

Heaven isn't a future thing, it's what benefits us, now...

Besides, "it doesn't matter who created killed who, look at those vast tract's of land". 😉

On 11/15/2023 at 1:59 PM, mistermack said:

Since gods are imaginary beings, they can be anything you like. And have been down the ages. There's a huge range, and everybody creates their own version of their favourite. 

The placebo effect is just as imaginary, but believe it or not, can be just as real... 

[mistermack]

5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

The placebo effect is just as imaginary

No it isn't.