Free will or Predestined

[Trurl]

My Pastor said last Sunday that Google estimates that 4 to 10 thousand advertisements are seen by a person on a given day. That seems high, but I wonder if it factors the data tracing the user by computers like surf history and phone usage.

 

I was taught that you design your according to the target audience. But this rule does not work backwards because I don’t always know who has me as their target audience. So we are subject to thousands of messages a day and we don’t know who created them or how they are trying to influence us. We don’t know what it is that they are trying to make as act.

 

I hope free will exists in that we could make choices and not be controlled by ads. But it still has an effect of some sort that we are probably unaware of.

 

My question is: “Are these ads a byproduct of communication or are the ads controlled to influence behavior?

 

This topic was the theme of the Matrix. Neo is offered candy by the Oracle and replies, Do I have a choice?”

 

That is does he make a choice or does the fact that he thinks a certain way means his choice is  already determined.

[swansont]

23 minutes ago, Trurl said:

My question is: “Are these ads a byproduct of communication or are the ads controlled to influence behavior?

Targeted ads are based on information that’s been collected. Ads in general are meant to influence behavior.

[mistermack]

2 hours ago, Trurl said:

My Pastor said last Sunday that Google estimates that 4 to 10 thousand advertisements are seen by a person on a given day.

That's an example of how statistics and lies can be interchangeable. The critical word is "seen". Nobody is likely to see 10,000 ads in a day, or even 4,000. Because you see with your brain. Your eyes might encounter a lot of ads, but how many does your brain actually see? 

[Genady]

I suspect that the critical word is "Pastor."

[mistermack]

5 minutes ago, Genady said:

I suspect that the critical word is "Pastor."

I think the Pastor might be telling the truth, but Google might be bending it. After all, you seeing ads is their bread and butter. 

[Genady]

6 minutes ago, mistermack said:

I think the Pastor might be telling the truth

This is not my default assumption.

To start with, it is not true that "Google estimates that 4 to 10 thousand advertisements are seen by a person on a given day." The truth is that if one googles this question, then one gets this answer.

Where these numbers come from? Here is an interesting story, How Many Ads Do We Really See In A Day? Spoiler: It’s Not 10,000 | The Drum.

[mistermack]

What I would say to the pastor is, how much influence do advertisers have, compared to pastors? Pastors get little children, and DEMAND their attention, they don't invite it, like an advert. And they REQUIRE that little children accept and believe their message, they drill that message into them as the absolute truth. It's religious pastors, in combination with parents, who are the biggest robbers of free will today. Because they forcibly indoctrinate defenceless children, whereas adverts just try to tempt you. 

Of course, advertising works, but compared to religious indoctrination, it's puny.

[Trurl]

It is important to note that my Pastor brought up the advertisements we are exposed to. It is me that compared it to external influences.

 

But my question can be answered by those who prefer Faith or strictly science.

 

We could say everyone has their own beliefs. But what influenced these beliefs?

 

My estimate of how many ads we saw a day was around 500. But I think 4+ thousand is probably right. If someone or something is influencing how you surf the web than everything you see is causing a decision reaction in your mind.

 

I know you think that fool believes in God. The scientific method determines my decisions. But the influencers already know what you believe.

 

So it comes down to did you mindfully make that decision or did some web content specifically geared to you help you make up your mind?

 

And I am no different than you.

 

I hope we have free will and can work together even if we don’t share the same views. I have been reading on this subject and I think people are now seeing the bad of social media. But it is not my idea behind this. This was known before in what Bruce Schneider writes.

 

So you say your brain sees not what you’re eyes see. But this is subconscious isn’t it? If 4000 was legitimate Google should know. How do we test this scientifically in a practical way? I mean is there any way to count average ads per hour? What would you say is the minimal speed in that a news story or ad could make you “think” about it?

 

I’m guessing milliseconds but that’s just a guess.

[iNow]

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

My estimate of how many ads we saw a day was around 500. But I think 4+ thousand is probably right

It’s not. 

[joigus]

Exactly.

Subtract 8 from 24

24-8=16 (waking hours)

Multiply by 3600 (seconds per hour)

16*3600=57600

Divide by 10000 (ads per day)

57600/10000=5.76 seconds per day available to see an ad

with the minimum estimate of 4000 ads you get 14.4 seconds. Still not very believable.

There wouldn't be time for anything else.

Your screen or interface might "see" those ads. You don't. That's why they hire so-called attention-engineers.

 

 

[TheVat]

14 hours ago, mistermack said:

That's an example of how statistics and lies can be interchangeable. The critical word is "seen". Nobody is likely to see 10,000 ads in a day, or even 4,000. Because you see with your brain. Your eyes might encounter a lot of ads, but how many does your brain actually see? 

Indeed.  And of those how many does your brain register as of the slightest importance?  My answer, on any given day:  0.  The primary function of the mind is pruning out irrelevant stimuli.  Most of us engage with ads online anout as much as we engage with street noise filtering into our houses.   A dog started barking down the road, a toddler cried at the daycare across the street, a heavy trailer rattled over the bump at the intersection....my day and outlook is not transformed.  It's just another day with normal ambient noises.   

@Trurl, would it be possible to post in the default font of this forum?  Yours seems microscopic on this tablet.

[dimreepr]

On 9/28/2023 at 9:57 PM, Trurl said:

My Pastor said last Sunday that Google estimates that 4 to 10 thousand advertisements are seen by a person on a given day. That seems high, but I wonder if it factors the data tracing the user by computers like surf history and phone usage.

 

I was taught that you design your according to the target audience. But this rule does not work backwards because I don’t always know who has me as their target audience. So we are subject to thousands of messages a day and we don’t know who created them or how they are trying to influence us. We don’t know what it is that they are trying to make as act.

 

I hope free will exists in that we could make choices and not be controlled by ads. But it still has an effect of some sort that we are probably unaware of.

 

My question is: “Are these ads a byproduct of communication or are the ads controlled to influence behavior?

 

This topic was the theme of the Matrix. Neo is offered candy by the Oracle and replies, Do I have a choice?”

 

That is does he make a choice or does the fact that he thinks a certain way means his choice is  already determined.

The most interesting thing about AI, in this context, is that instead of targeting ads to the customer, AI decided that it's best option is to persuade the customer to watch the ad's.

But we still get to decide what to buy, even if it's always the same brand... 🤒 

[Trurl]

I agree that 4+ thousand are not all “seen”.

 

 

But the ads are targeted. They will guide your interest. So you do a search and get 1000 responses you wii be guided to one. It is an interactive process. Remember search engines control what is found.

 

I’m not a psychologist but when you look at a page of content you make multiple decisions and assumptions in milliseconds. Also you are not aware of all your thoughts. That is just observations on how I approach advertisements.

 

I would put effort in designing an experiment but the advertisers already know all this.

 

I wish I knew the goal of such advertising. And I wonder how it effects our decisions. And why did we allow this internet evolve this way.

 

@dimreepr

Ads to other ads. But reviews are not reliable. If Google results in a sale they should care what you buy. That should make them neutral. But are they neutral? 
 

I became interested in this because so many people are calling this out saying it is negatively effecting us. We don’t have the means to beat it, but we can defend against it waiting on the world to change.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, Trurl said:

why did we allow this internet evolve this way.

Greed, or at least a desire for easy money in a profit focused economy. 

[dimreepr]

14 hours ago, Trurl said:

I agree that 4+ thousand are not all “seen”.

 

 

But the ads are targeted. They will guide your interest. So you do a search and get 1000 responses you wii be guided to one. It is an interactive process. Remember search engines control what is found.

 

I’m not a psychologist but when you look at a page of content you make multiple decisions and assumptions in milliseconds. Also you are not aware of all your thoughts. That is just observations on how I approach advertisements.

 

I would put effort in designing an experiment but the advertisers already know all this.

 

I wish I knew the goal of such advertising. And I wonder how it effects our decisions. And why did we allow this internet evolve this way.

 

@dimreepr

Ads to other ads. But reviews are not reliable. If Google results in a sale they should care what you buy. That should make them neutral. But are they neutral? 
 

I became interested in this because so many people are calling this out saying it is negatively effecting us. We don’t have the means to beat it, but we can defend against it waiting on the world to change.

It depends on, what's easiest to believe verses a potential loss of comfort; our mistake is, we fed that into a computer/accountant and forgot to include infrastructure in the equation... 😣 

Edited October 1, 2023 by dimreepr

[Peterkin]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:22 PM, Trurl said:

My estimate of how many ads we saw a day was around 500. But I think 4+ thousand is probably right. If someone or something is influencing how you surf the web than everything you see is causing a decision reaction in your mind.

Yes: I flip past them as fast as I can, usually without registering what they want me to buy. I know I'll never go on a cruise, which is what the curtain in front of this thread invited me to do; I'll never import a beautiful Russian girl; I'll never know which five fruits to avoid for belly fat. I have, however, stopped consulting some respectable publications, because they have the text sandwiched between two giant ads and it's like reading through a mail-slot - just not worth the discomfort.

So, yes, a lot of ads slide past awareness, but the only way they influence my behaviour is to prompt evasive action - that is, the very opposite of what they hope to accomplish. Maybe someday advertisers will realize this.

I hope the same will someday be true of religious and political propaganda. 

[mistermack]

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I hope the same will someday be true of religious and political propaganda. 

I just hope that Nirvana/utopia could be true and a referendum is free to choose, but we all know one has to walk on water for the magic to happen...

[Peterkin]

13 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

we all know one has to walk on water for the magic to happen...

It didn't happen last time. "One" would just be killed again... and again.... and again

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Peterkin said:

It didn't happen last time. "One" would just be killed again... and again.... and again

The last time, the metaphor was water into wine; imagine that for a recovering alcoholic...

 

[Genady]

Free will or Predestined

Both.

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

The last time, the metaphor was water into wine; imagine that for a recovering alcoholic...

I never even knew he had a problem with drink. Oh, the apocrypha I've missed!

[dimreepr]

20 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I never even knew he had a problem with drink. Oh, the apocrypha I've missed!

Having walked a mile or two, in very similar shoes, the thesise fit's the story; ask me how, if you want, but I'm not responcible for your apocrypha. 🤒

21 hours ago, Genady said:

Free will or Predestined

Both.

For the lucky few, perhaps...

[Trurl]

Well freewill or predestined, we will find out.

 

I know this is in psychology topic, but it is just as much computer science.

 

Imagine Chat gpt learning hate speech or other crap that we have advertised, as the A.I. is being trained. Would it inspire to be an architect or academic or would it do something else?

 

I don’t think there is a thing called artificial intelligence. It is just intelligence.

[DrmDoc]

Free will is an illusion, we are all slaves to our biology and biological systems...imho.