What is the psychology assessment of neo con fascism alt right?

[Phi for All]

6 minutes ago, swansont said:

Which all of the republicans voted against (and IIRC, have vowed to repeal)

And this, more than almost anything, shows us how the fascists have taken hold in the Republican party. The need for insulin isn't a partisan issue, yet somehow Republican commandership thinks they represent only diabetics who want to pay more for it than other countries. 

[CharonY]

I will also add that Europe is not a political monolith with quite significant differences in social policies (though the US sticks out with its healthcare system). Also, especially homelessness is a poor example, in the US it is actually fairly low (0.18%). Of course, there can be issues in how homeless folks are counted and collected data can be out of date. But that being said, the US is comparable to France (0.22%). Canada is doing worse with 0.36%.

Germany has higher levels (0.41%) and UK is around 1%. However the latter countries also include folks threatened by homelessness or in extreme unsecure conditions, which will skew the levels upward.

[sethoflagos]

5 hours ago, nec209 said:

In the UK and Canada you have a conservative party that supports universal health care and more regulations of businesses and banks than the US.

Since 2010, this has been anything but true in the UK

 

[CharonY]

In Canada that has also been a bit of an push (provincially) to dismantle the single-payer system.

[nec209]

When it comes to homeless the government has given up you have states like California that has large tent city populations like in San Francisco, Los Angeles San Diego. Not only would it cost billions of say billions of dollars but San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego are running out of land to build because of the water and mountains. Well place like Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoman being less populated and still lots of land to build are still enjoying cheaper housing cost for now even though the government is doing nothing there it seems.

If I was poor person or someone from China or Mexico why would I vote for any party it not like any thing is going to get better.

If Biden wants to build houses for the poor in the Sacramento area I’m all intrested but no I have not heard any thing.

Well in 40 years from now the average price of house will be 2 million or more in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego because they are running out of land to build because of the mountains in the way.

Not sure about Boston, New York or New Jersey but it big on sprawl now not sure how much more they can sprawl out to.

And Philadelphian is strange one.

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by nec209

[swansont]

26 minutes ago, nec209 said:

When it comes to homeless the government has given up you have states like California that has large tent city populations like in San Francisco, Los Angeles San Diego. Not only would it cost billions of say billions of dollars but San Francisco, Los Angeles, San Diego are running out of land to build because of the water and mountains. Well place like Kentucky, Missouri, Oklahoman being less populated and still lots of land to build are still enjoying cheaper housing cost for now even though the government is doing nothing there it seems.

If I was poor person or someone from China or Mexico why would I vote for any party it not like any thing is going to get better.

If Biden wants to build houses for the poor in the Sacramento area I’m all intrested but no I have not heard any thing.

Well in 40 years from now the average price of house will be 2 million or more in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego because they are running out of land to build because of the mountains in the way.

Not sure about Boston, New York or New Jersey but it big on sprawl now not sure how much more they can sprawl out to.

And Philadelphian is strange one.

 

Do poor people tend to buy houses (can they get a mortgage?), or do they rent?

After stalling under Trump, apartment construction has increased dramatically under Biden.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNDCON5MUSA

“jurisdictions participating in the American Rescue Plan’s (ARP) HOME program will produce at least 20,000 units of affordable housing and support an additional 23,000 households with rental assistance, non-congregate shelter, or supportive services”

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2023/07/27/biden-harris-administration-announces-actions-to-lower-housing-costs-and-boost-supply/

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

When it comes to homeless the government has given up

I have a hard time with these generalizations of yours. I know you're referencing specific areas or populations, but you blame "the government" and claim every bit of it has "given up". It's not accurate, it's not objective, and it's not helping anyone solve real problems.

Housing is only part of the homelessness problem, and the current government understands that. Biden's approach to the mental health crisis that's fueled so much homelessness has a lot of potential to help millions.

Quote

This is the first time since the Carter administration that the federal government has taken such significant leadership in addressing mental health, says Dr. Thomas Insel, a psychiatrist and the former director of the National Institute of Mental Health.

 

[nec209]

The problem is in the UK, Canada and Europe with neoliberalism now and when they are in power and have put little money into the healthcare with there neoliberalism goals and when the conservatives get in power it is still very bad as they put in well even less.

There some more left groups but they are mostly don’t get enough votes at lest in Canada and the UK on a federal level.

At the time when the healthcare system was set up there was lot more younger people and now there is problem of aging population. The Fox News and the republicans keep pointing jabs at Canada and the UK but do not understand the problem of aging population there and when neoliberalism took roots

With out left workers party fixing the healthcare system or people having more kids and younger immigrants the healthcare system will most likely be privatized with some state run healthcare in Canada and the UK and Europe may be not the Nordic countries at the way things are going.

Well both parties have shifted more to the right.

32 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I have a hard time with these generalizations of yours. I know you're referencing specific areas or populations, but you blame "the government" and claim every bit of it has "given up". It's not accurate, it's not objective, and it's not helping anyone solve real problems.

Housing is only part of the homelessness problem, and the current government understands that. Biden's approach to the mental health crisis that's fueled so much homelessness has a lot of potential to help millions.

 

Can you point me to cite where a government has done away of homeless population in a city?

And you right in terms the US homeless problem is more noticeable in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego and specific areas and other areas not so noticeable but at the same time if a city, county and state votes liberal party in power is it even okay for the federal government to come in and clean up the mess the city, county and state government can’t fix.

AND that if one believes in top town approach from strong centralized government.Well libertarians, anarchist and some people on left appose a very strong centralized government. Believe in strong centralized government over state.

Other thing is it okay with sky high out of control small middle class home costing million dollars now and going up every year in San Francisco, Los Angeles and San Diego with very little land to build, than how do you fix that problem. With only than two options of taking down homes and building high rise apartments or option two building new cities across the other side of the mountain.
 

Edited November 22, 2023 by nec209

[Alysdexic]

"Neocon" is a US philosophy; American force to spread democracy and protect national interests; pretends to morals, challenges global governanty (if hard left is big government and hard riht is morals, then hard centre must be society).

"Fascism" is a farriht political wave from 20th century Europe; defined by dictatorial power, accuses, shuts up, crushes opposition, dictates over society and economy.

"Altriht" is a loose farriht, white nationalist group, starting around 2014 and the 2016 US election; distanced from mainstream conservatism; racist; white supremacist.

"Neocon fascism altriht" defines an authoritarian, warlike, ethnonationalist trend in rihtist politics.

Common characteristics: authoritarianism, social dominanty orientation, outgroup bias; often, conspiratorial thinking (fabrication, misrepresentation, misreading, projection, paranoia, pareidolia, reification), cognitive inflexibility (and dissonanty), moral absolutism.

These characteristics are rooted in inflexible social hierarchies, a bias against social "others," a cognitive style that resists change, preferring uncomplicated, binary explanations. Conspiratorial thinking may be a mekanism to simplify complex social realities by attributing events to powerful, usually malicious forces. Moral absolutism often pairs with this cognitive style, fostering an us-against-them mentality.

One must be cautious of psýkologhists, who steal words from other languages, twisting and perverting them to fit preconceptions or societal "norms." Also, what makes modern psýkologhy a fraud is that delusional disorder, folie à deux, mass hysteria depend on the population fraction who disagree with a belief; therefore whether the APA classify a condition a disorder depends on social climate, much of whom include conservative prudes, breeders, and cretins who are slow to learn scienty and evidence-based ideas.

Politics is in the brain, like everything else. In liberals, the anterior cingulate cortex is greater; in conservatives, the amygdala is greater. The latter is more primitive. These are not mere tendencies, but ingrained cognitive structures that shape political beliefs.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Alysdexic

[nec209]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:50 AM, Phi for All said:

These are old tactics being employed using modern techniques. Hold up a strawman, tell the people that the strawman is responsible for all their woes, and let the people beat the crap out of the strawman. It's all to take focus off the real problem, the uber wealthy and their unearned, unethical, and unbelievably selfish manipulation of our society.

Did not see this post. But how different is it than Bush? The only difference is the GOP and Trump is embracing it with  QAnon and deep state conspiracy.

[John Cuthber]

14 hours ago, nec209 said:

There some more left groups but they are mostly don’t get enough votes at lest in Canada and the UK on a federal level.

There are plenty of Left wing votes. The current government only got about 40% and you can assume they included pretty much all the Right wing.
The problem is our electoral system.
The biggest minority becomes an elected dictatorship.

[Phi for All]

19 hours ago, nec209 said:

Can you point me to cite where a government has done away of homeless population in a city?

Are you saying that, if the government hasn't fixed a problem, it means they've done nothing about it? 

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

Are you saying that, if the government hasn't fixed a problem, it means they've done nothing about it? 

This notion seems to underlie some of the bad faith arguments we see in politics: “if you can’t 100% fix a problem then I won’t support it” followed by standing/voting against incremental improvements.

Poverty (for example) will always be with us, but that’s not a valid excuse for doing nothing to improve the situation.

[Phi for All]

41 minutes ago, swansont said:

This notion seems to underlie some of the bad faith arguments we see in politics: “if you can’t 100% fix a problem then I won’t support it” followed by standing/voting against incremental improvements.

Poverty (for example) will always be with us, but that’s not a valid excuse for doing nothing to improve the situation.

Couple the bad faith arguments with a complete rejection of the best solutions and it's a fascist one-two punch right in the liberals. I don't know of any major publicly-funded programs that haven't been tainted by private interests more focused on profit than on what the program is trying to accomplish. We need to collectively fund some solutions that are aimed at solving problems rather than making wealthier capitalist extremists, but the right clutches their pearls and rejects the attempts as "socialism".

[iNow]

3 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

but the right clutches their pearls and rejects the attempts as "socialism".

Perhaps more accurate is their view that, “government is the problem, and we’re going to use our elected positions to prove it!”

[swansont]

55 minutes ago, iNow said:

Perhaps more accurate is their view that, “government is the problem, and we’re going to use our elected positions to prove it!”

It’s too bad that the GOP’s implied declaration that they have no interest in governing is viewed as an indictment against government

[nec209]

On 11/14/2023 at 11:50 AM, Phi for All said:

These are old tactics being employed using modern techniques. Hold up a strawman, tell the people that the strawman is responsible for all their woes, and let the people beat the crap out of the strawman. It's all to take focus off the real problem, the uber wealthy and their unearned, unethical, and unbelievably selfish manipulation of our society.

I have not read all of the thread but I hear on talk radio some people saying if Trump gets in that will be the last election the US has and others say a civil war could happen.

But it seems the GOP has been moving more to the right every year.

I also don’t know if things like abortion and LGBT is really the problem or some thing else?

I don’t know if the democratic party took a more centrist or right view on LGBT and abortion if that will help or if there are some other driving factors at play here.

 

[iNow]

29 minutes ago, nec209 said:

there are some other driving factors at play here.

Focus here

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

I don’t know if the democratic party took a more centrist or right view on LGBT and abortion if that will help or if there are some other driving factors at play here.

What's the centrist view on LGBTQA rights? Do they think those folks should have rights some of the time? I know the Democrats have been suggesting that rights belong to everyone all the time, and the right thinks only a few people deserve them, but what's the centrist view?

[CharonY]

3 hours ago, Phi for All said:

What's the centrist view on LGBTQA rights? Do they think those folks should have rights some of the time? I know the Democrats have been suggesting that rights belong to everyone all the time, and the right thinks only a few people deserve them, but what's the centrist view?

Perhaps no rights for them unless they are one of the good ones? Nudge nudge wink wink?

[AIkonoklazt]

It's not what they "are" but what they use.

Here's an explanation nicely canned for you, enjoy...

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/07/30/the-connection-between-political-lies-and-conspiracy-theories-00108378

[mistermack]

8 hours ago, Phi for All said:

What's the centrist view on LGBTQA rights? Do they think those folks should have rights some of the time? I know the Democrats have been suggesting that rights belong to everyone all the time, and the right thinks only a few people deserve them, but what's the centrist view?

Well, what often happens is that one person's rights impacts adversely on another's. I would interpret the centrist view as trying to find a fair balance between the two. 

[Phi for All]

3 hours ago, mistermack said:

Well, what often happens is that one person's rights impacts adversely on another's. I would interpret the centrist view as trying to find a fair balance between the two. 

So if I think all people deserve to be treated equitably simply because they're humans, and a far-right Christian Nationalist thinks only Christians deserve equitable treatment, how is a centrist view going to find any type of fair balance? I think Centrism is misapplied when it comes to human rights and treating all equitably. If I think it's wrong to beat someone with a baseball bat all day long, and that's all the Christian Nationalist wants to do, the Centrist isn't going to appease me by suggesting we only beat people for twelve hours a day.

[mistermack]

1 minute ago, Phi for All said:

So if I think all people deserve to be treated equitably simply because they're humans, and a far-right Christian Nationalist thinks only Christians deserve equitable treatment, how is a centrist view going to find any type of fair balance?

Well, I was talking about a balance between rights, not a balance between what two different parties think. 

Rights are arbitrary to some extent, but I wasn't suggesting a balance between rights and wrongs, but between conflicting rights. 

[Phi for All]

1 minute ago, mistermack said:

Well, I was talking about a balance between rights, not a balance between what two different parties think. 

Rights are arbitrary to some extent, but I wasn't suggesting a balance between rights and wrongs, but between conflicting rights. 

Do you think a balance needs to be struck with the neoconservative fascists trying to seize power in the US, so their right to their beliefs is respected?