How can a jumbuck fit in a tucker bag?

[TheVat]

It's a reasonable question, I think.

These are jumbucks:

 

This is a tucker bag (carried in front):

This seems a problem, in terms of fit.  I feel there are limited possible explanations for the jolly swagman's achievement of jumbuck insertion.

1.  19th century sheep in Australia were miniaturized, in an amazing secret leap forward of GM technology. 

2.  Tucker bags were capable of massive elastic stretching.

3.  Lyricist Banjo Paterson reported falsified data when he wrote the line,

And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker bag

Are there other possible means of jumbuck insertion and containment that have been overlooked?

 

[swansont]

Not an adult, or not the whole thing goes in the bag?

https://trishansoz.com/trishansoz/waltzing-matilda/waltz.html

“The swagman is starving. He hasn't eaten in days. So he catches the sheep, kills it, eats what he can, and stows the rest in his backpack (tucker bag).”

[Phi for All]

If you only keep the parts you can eat, then the buck might tuck if there's no other swag in the bag.

Or what if it's really a TARDIS bag?

[mistermack]

There's a clue in the word "Jumbuck". It means "Jumping Buck". 

In sheep, it's generally little lambs that jump, so maybe the Jumbuck was tiny. And there's not much to them, once you've skinned them. 

Australia's a big empty place. The swagman seems to have been extremely unlucky, for a squatter and three troopers to come across him like that. I think they must have been hunting him, and maybe they just framed him about the jolly jumbuck in his tucker bag, and the whole story of him drowning seems a bit suspicious to me. Dead men tell no tales. But the fact that his ghost haunts the billabong points to foul play. 

But they're all dead now, so none of it matters. 

[Phi for All]

If we're looking into the engineering behind certain verses, can we figure out how one could become a pinball wizard playing by sense of smell?

[mistermack]

It goes back a long way. Were there ever blue birds over the White Cliffs of Dover? Since bluebirds are an American group of species, I would think that anyone who "waited to see" was probably disappointed. 

I expect they had to make do with common Barn Swallows, which do have a bit of blue here and there. 

[Ken Fabian]

I think the uncertainty of meaning has been part of the song's allure - lots of Australians have spent time pondering and arguing over it. Slang terms no longer used, that no-one is really sure the meaning of, suggestive of an age (already) passed. Not sure it ever fully made sense and what was comprehensible in it was kinda depressing.

I do suspect if the lyrics were not by an already very popular poet who wrote mostly about and popularised Australian "outback" settler society and recent history it probably would not have been widely sung or known.

[swansont]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

If we're looking into the engineering behind certain verses, can we figure out how one could become a pinball wizard playing by sense of smell?

Can music save your mortal soul?

[mistermack]

38 minutes ago, swansont said:

Can music save your mortal soul?

Of course not. 

The music died years ago. 

To change the subject, why has the Sundowner in the picture got string tied round his trouser legs, just below the knees? Is that an Australian fashion statement?

[swansont]

Does he have an onion tied to his belt, (which was the style at the time in some places)?

[mistermack]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

Does he have an onion tied to his belt, (which was the style at the time in some places)?

Can't see any sign of that. The string round the knees is called a Bowyang down under, I just discovered. It's to aid squatting on your haunches in long trousers, apparently. They all wear shorts these days. 

I don't think the picture is accurate though. If I was a sundowner, I'd carry the tucker bag on a stick over the shoulder, like Dick Whittington. 

[LaurieAG]

14 hours ago, swansont said:

“The swagman is starving. He hasn't eaten in days. So he catches the sheep, kills it, eats what he can, and stows the rest in his backpack (tucker bag).”

"Matilda" is his swag or backpack, i.e. a rolled blanket that contains his possessions, which rests on his back, and is tied in 2 places by a strap that goes over his right shoulder.

His Tucker bag is at the front so that the food doesn't taint his swag and vs vs.

10 hours ago, Ken Fabian said:

I think the uncertainty of meaning has been part of the song's allure - lots of Australians have spent time pondering and arguing over it. Slang terms no longer used, that no-one is really sure the meaning of, suggestive of an age (already) passed. Not sure it ever fully made sense and what was comprehensible in it was kinda depressing.

I do suspect if the lyrics were not by an already very popular poet who wrote mostly about and popularised Australian "outback" settler society and recent history it probably would not have been widely sung or known.

If you are under 50, maybe, but for the wrong reasons. Back in these unenlightened 'colonial' times, first nations people were considered to be possessions of the UK monarch, while poor white itinerant bush workers were considered fair game.

https://www.nla.gov.au/digital-classroom/year-6/documenting-federation/themes/national-identity#

Quote

The meaning of the song’s lyrics is the subject of much discussion and speculation. While Paterson never confirmed its meaning, it is widely accepted that the song is linked to the turbulence generated by the 1894 shearer’s strike and the violence that erupted at Dagworth Station in September of that year.

The swagman hero of the song is thought to be modelled on Samuel ‘Frenchy’ Hoffmeister, a shearer who took part in the Dagworth riots and who was found dead near a billabong in mysterious circumstances. Paterson’s song quickly spread around the district and the country. It came to represent the independence of the itinerant bush workers and, consequently, the spirit of Australian independence and a growing sense of national identity.

 

[Sensei]

15 hours ago, Phi for All said:

Or what if it's really a TARDIS bag?

How does the TARDIS bag summarize the weight contained in the bag? (volume vs mass problem)

 

17 hours ago, TheVat said:

It's a reasonable question, I think.

If this is really a reasonable question, you should start by creating an algorithm, e.g. by searching out Internet what the weight (and the volume) of the animal is, what percentage is bone, fur, head and other dispensable parts. The real meat is then dried (i.e. even further reduction of mass, i.e. water in it).

https://www.google.com/search?q=drying+salt+meat

https://www.google.com/search?q=dried+meat

"To dry cure meat with salt, cover it entirely in salt for a full day. In order to make sure the meat is completely covered, fill a container with salt, place the meat on top, and pour more salt over until it's buried."

https://www.google.com/search?q=cured+meat+weight+loss

"The meat should lose 35-40% of its weight by the end of the process, and the only way to tell when the meat is finished curing is to weigh it."

The weight of human bones is 14%. (Measure the weight of the jumbuck by yourself, before and after)

So, if we assume a similar bone mass, out of a 50 kg animal - 50x14% = 43 kg x 60% (due to drying) = 26 kg.

The head and fur go off first, as do the internal organs (they would go bad first).

At least 50% of mass, and even more volume, is gone.

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=lowland+sheep+lamb

"The animals' body weights were monitored from birth to day 180, when they were slaughtered. At slaughter, the lambs reached an average body weight of 38.82 kg. The percentage of slaughtered parts, slaughter yield and the proportion of cutouts in the half-carcass were tabulated."

 

[John Cuthber]

Mary had a little lamb.
Her father shot it; dead.
But still it goes to school with her
Between two bits of bread.

[mistermack]

Mary had a little pig

You should have heard it grunt

She took it down the garden path 

And shot it in the abdomen 

[Phi for All]

5 hours ago, Sensei said:

How does the TARDIS bag summarize the weight contained in the bag? (volume vs mass problem)

It's bigger on the inside.

[TheVat]

Appreciate how everyone has caught the whimsical tone of the thread and run with it.  The TARDIS hypothesis was one I had considered.  But rejected, due to the limited technology of 19th century swagpersons.  TARDIS circuitry was not widely available until the 1960s.

For me (tongue still firmly in cheek) the word choice requires us to discard the pre-butchering hypothesis (in which the animal is reduced to edible cuts of meat, which would only be around a third of its original hanging weight)....

And he sang as he shoved that jumbuck in his tucker bag

Why is this the case?  Because the disarticulation of an animal results in a nomenclature change, viz. from being designated a jumbuck to being designated as the meat of said animal.  What goes into the bag is mutton.  As far as my careful and years long investigation has determined, the meat of a jumbuck is not called "jumbuck."   Also note the lyric refers to "that jumbuck," which further suggests the unfortunate creature is still a complete unit, rather than components. 

On these matters the lambs remain silent.  

18 hours ago, swansont said:

Can music save your mortal soul?

Can one person be both the Egg Man and the walrus?

17 hours ago, mistermack said:

To change the subject, why has the Sundowner in the picture got string tied round his trouser legs, just below the knees?

This prevented the infiltration of insects or small reptiles up the legs and into more sensitive areas of the anatomy.  

[Sensei]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

It's bigger on the inside.

Unfortunately, you did not pay enough attention to the discussion..

As big as something is, the discussion of volume..

When I was asking about the mass..

 

ps. Phi apparently not for everyone..

 

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Can one person be both the Egg Man and the walrus?

In which parallel Universe?

 

[geordief]

58 minutes ago, Sensei said:

 

 

In which parallel Universe?

 

In the Concentric Universe.

[mistermack]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Can one person be both the Egg Man and the walrus?

John Lennon could. In fact, three persons in one is not without precedent. And Lennon at one point was more popular than Jesus. 

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

This prevented the infiltration of insects or small reptiles up the legs and into more sensitive areas of the anatomy. 

Sounds superficially a worthy hypothesis. But against it is the fact that most Ozzies wear shorts in the outback these days. And wikipedia actually has a page on the Bowyang, and they say it's to save you hitching up your trousers when you kneel or squat, to prevent them going tight round the knees or gradually slipping down. They do give your hypothesis credit as a second benefit though, but if that's the case, life must be murder in those baggy shorts.  

[Sensei]

6 minutes ago, geordief said:

1 hour ago, Sensei said:

In which parallel Universe?

In the Concentric Universe.

but parallel means that there is independent variable with the same x,y,z,t..

How does it fit into your "Concentric Universe" theory.. ?

 

[swansont]

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

Can one person be both the Egg Man and the walrus?

Goo goo g’joob

17 minutes ago, mistermack said:

John Lennon could. In fact, three persons in one is not without precedent. And Lennon at one point was more popular than Jesus. 

But the walrus was Paul (citation: Glass Onion, The White Album)

[geordief]

40 minutes ago, Sensei said:

but parallel means that there is independent variable with the same x,y,z,t..

How does it fit into your "Concentric Universe" theory.. ?

 

Back to the drawing board

(you are running rings around me)

Unless we are talking about a Glass Onion class of the Concentric Universe.

Edited November 17, 2023 by geordief

[Sensei]

21 minutes ago, geordief said:

Back to the drawing board

Are you praying for a reboot?

 

[geordief]

10 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Are you praying for a reboot?

 

Was he wearing boots? Could be why he drowned .