earth science

[Guest brat_the_rat]

This new thread is basically about the earth and all the things that are screwing it up.. post your replies please.. I just wanna read your opinions...thanks

 

The main problem that is present in the world is mainly due to attitude. While I must agree that much of my present lifestyle is extremely comfortable, I must say that much of it isn't exactly what can be called as resource conscious. In fact, much of it is very resource consuming, despite the fact that I do know that.

 

It seems very difficult to find that motivation to become more resource conscious and change my way of living. It means that I have to bid adieu to many of the comfortable things that I have taken for granted and I have been made aware of all these shortcomings due to the acute water shortage experienced by my city (Chennai, in India).

 

It is because of this water shortage that I have had to look at the way that I live. And I have always thought that I have been conscious about the way I live and have always taken a sense of pride from it. But not any more.

 

So, it is abvious that it is from the attitude level htat a change has to take place.

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This topic is about the topic of nature...and this is not some sad old sentimental thing.. this is mainly about what YOU feel about the topic.. I will make my initial thoughts known and please respond.

 

I feel that nature is full of complex relationships. It is and always will be an intrical part of our lives unless we find some mechanism by which we become totaly self dependant and do not rely on any other species for survival.

 

Because it is becoming increasingly possible that we may have to survive without any nature, as we are directly and indirectly destroying everythign on this planet. While there is a lot of talk about conservation, it is extremely difficult and costly. The maintanence of one gene bank is exorbitant and so, may not be viable for a long time.

 

Hence, we may have to look for some other alternative. For example, there is the example of the movie Matrix, which shows how people do not depend on any environmental factors. While nothing so dramatic may happen, it is possible that we may have to think of one very soon.

 

But there is the other alternative of conservation. It may take some time to become effective, as nothing is mended quickly. However, with a little bit of dedication and the use of modern day technology, this is possible. But it may require the total revamp of our lives. For example, the flush toilet flushes 10 litres of water per flush, which is an amazingly high amount.

 

But modern breakthroughs are allowing for different kinds of toilets, or otherwise called green toilets.

 

While this is just one example, there are many more, on which I will not elaborate on at this moment. I would ask you to kindly make any statements about this paragraph. Thank you.

[NSX]

That's cool what you said. I agree with you in the part that it may actually hurt nature more if we try to help it, ie. the resources & time consumed.

 

Well, I feel strongly for nature; like you say, if everyone helped a little, it would go a long way. As for a total reformation of the way we operate, I do'nt think it's possible right now. ie. look @ the Kyoto Protocol, it's still taking time.

 

I like being able to venture into the woods camping, while at the same time, driving sportscars around gas-draining speeds. What a hypocrite eh? hehe

 

I suppose like you say, we (humans) could end up surviving indpendent of nature, but I think that's awfully selfish (ie. all the biotic things perishing), but then again, I'm an omnivore, so I know, I'm a big hypocrite

 

[Skye]

I think it will be alot easier to maintain the natural environment than to create and maintain an artificial one. An artificial envirironment would also require a complex series of interacting componants in order to maintain fairly constant conditions. Designing, building, maintaining, correcting, etc something like this would be a very difficult task, and if it goes wrong we're screwed.

 

Maintaining the natural environment isn't so hard, it has maintained itself in the past, with gradual changes. We only have limit our impact on it so as not to push it beyond certain threshholds that cause undesirable changes.

[spottedlizard20]

I completely agree that maintaining the environment is that hard because in a sense it has always been able to maintain itself, but it is hard because the environment adapts to changes slower than we want it to. We are in essence almost pushing the environment to the extreme by demanding so much of it's limited resources. But I guess I am also a hypocrite because for as much as it is nice being in the forest, it is still nice to be in the city and to have all the things that we do have. I guess maybe it's a bit different in Ontario and such, no one really lives in the north. You can go up there and it's virtually untouched by people, and then you come south, like where I am living, and there are barely any trees and it is the saddest thing ever.

But despite all that, I think that one thing that really destroys the earth are disrespectful people. People who don't respect the preservation of what we have and who don't respect other people enough to care that in a couple of decades this might not be here for our children and their children. There are too many people out there who just care that they have this and to hell with the fact that if WE don't take care of this, no one else is going to be able to enjoy it either. Personally, I think venturing into a perfect untouched piece of forested land is one of the most exhilirating things in the world. I want as many people to enjoy that as possible. I just think people need to have a lot more respect, and take the time to listen to people and learn from them before judging them. I guess that's my rant for today

[AO_champion]

I'm a *gasp* Christian... *waits for people to stop gasping* And what I believe about anything, including conservation, has to have a root in the Bible, which I believe to be completely true inside and out. As such, when it says that it's God's word... I can't help but consider it something very important in how I live and what I believe. Anyways, here are excerpts from two articles I found online. They're having to do with ecology and conservationism and whatnot, and how this should tie into the Bible. Since this thread is about opinions and whatnot, I suppose nobody will mind if I post mine on the matter from a Biblical standpoint.

 

 

 

"Who owns the world?

 

 

'In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.' The fact that God created the world means He owns it. In light of this, surely we can hardly claim ownership of anything. Psalm 95:5 states, 'The sea is his, and he made it'. In Psalm 24:1, we read, 'The earth is the Lord's, and the fulness thereof '. Everything we have has come from God, who created all things. Because we don't own the creation, this also means we have no right to exploit it--for example, use it to make a profit for pure greed, without considering the glory of God, the good of the creation, and the needs of our fellow man.

 

Who has the right to rule over the earth?

In Genesis 1:28, God told Adam and Eve to 'Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish [Hebrew: "fill"] the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth'. Genesis 2:15 states, 'And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it'.

 

God created humans different from the animals, with a superior brain and the ability to communicate information from one generation to the next, that we might subdue the earth and have dominion over it, as commanded. We therefore have a special responsibility, and are expected to care for what has been entrusted to us by our Creator.

 

How is God concerned for the creation?

In Matthew 6:28, 29, God tells us that He clothes the lilies of the field so that 'even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these'. Not even a sparrow falls without God's knowledge and permission. If God is so concerned about living things, surely man, His steward, must be similarly concerned. We should then want to eliminate or minimize needless harm to the world and its occupants.

 

Why are there 'Green' crises?

When God made the world, everything at first was 'very good', or 'perfect' (Genesis 1:31; Deuteronomy 32:4). All living things were in perfect harmony, with a sinless man tending the perfect creation.

 

However, that is not the situation now. Romans 8:22 tells us 'the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now'. Genesis 3 records the event that led to this sad state of affairs, with all living things and all world systems decaying and dying.

 

Romans 5:12 explains that man's actions (disobedience to God's command not to eat of the forbidden fruit) led to sin, which resulted in God's cursing the world with death. Genesis 3:17-19 describes some of the ways this sin affected the creation. 'Cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life; Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee . . . In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread . . .'.

 

The whole of creation is now running down and wearing out. 'The earth shall wax old like a garment' (Isaiah 51:6), and man's sinful nature has disrupted the relationship with the environment. The sin of Adam, which we all inherit, was one of rebellion against God's rules, and man, ever since, has made his own rules. This results in selfishness (and therefore exploitation), the refusal to practice love towards our fellow man and other creatures, as well as poor stewardship of God's creation, and man's desire to serve his own personal ends.

 

Benefit from wise stewardship

Deuteronomy 25:4 states: 'Thou shalt not muzzle the ox when he treadeth out the corn'. In Isaiah 5 and John 15, God shows that even He expects fruit or 'profit' from His work. In other words, there is benefit to be gained from wise stewardship.

 

But man is not a perfect steward any more. Even though the resources God created are there for our use, man often exploits these resources at the expense of his fellow man, and causes needless loss and destruction of other parts of God's creation. Surely this is wrong!

 

Conversely, much of the emphasis of the modern conservation movement is evolutionary and pantheistic, worshipping the creature rather than the Creator (Romans 1). This ignores the biblical mandate to rule over the earth and subdue it. The development of energy sources (coal, natural gas, petroleum, atomic power, etc.), the mining of mineral resources, the cutting of timber for building, etc., is not wrong. Ecclesiastes 3:1-8 states that there is a time to plant and a time to uproot, a time to kill and a time to heal, a time to tear down and a time to build, a time to keep and a time to throw away, a time for war and a time for peace. It is the abuse of these resources--the exploitation, the waste, the greed and the haste--that is wrong.

 

Proverbs 12:10 says, 'A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel'. Dominion means to rule, to administer, to work, and to take care of the creation--not to lord over it in a tyrannical manner, or to needlessly destroy it. "

 

 

That's no. 1.... and this is no. 2....

 

 

"First, the fate of the planet is, ultimately, not in the hands of mankind. While humans are responsible for caring for the Earth (as per the ‘Dominion mandate’ in Genesis 1:26–28), we are not in control of the Earth. Rather it belongs to the Creator Himself (Psalm 24:1), who has made us His earthly stewards.

 

Second, the fate of the living planet is not the most important issue facing mankind. Ultimately, this decaying system will be replaced with a New Heavens and Earth anyway (Romans 8:20–22, 2 Peter 3:13, Revelation 21:1, Hebrews 1:10–12). Rather, the most important issue facing mankind is: will the individual choose to acknowledge his Creator and be reconciled to Him? Romans 1:20 makes it clear that knowledge of God is, at least at some level, evident to all, so those who refuse to acknowledge their Maker are without excuse."

[Chaos Theory]

Make conservation profitable. Then it will catch on like wildfire.

[Morrgan]

Cynical, Chaos Theory, but quite true I fear.

 

Skye, I'd say we already have pushed nature too far. Heh, the question is whether it will/can recover or not. Will just changing our ways to more environment-friendly ones be enough anymore?

[YT2095]

I`m totaly with Chaos on this one, Profitable = Preferable.

Just a pity it seems to be the sole motivator for a good 99.99% of us.

[Peter Dunn]

Hello Brat the Rat

 

I commend you for posting this thread - living, as you do, in one of the most heavily populated countries on the planet with a per capita consumption of Mother Earth's resources way, way below that of Europeans or Americans makes your argument all the more stronger.

 

It should be us westerners that pay the price for the rape of the planet, we've taken it out, therefore its down to us to put it back in.

 

Forget terraforming Mars - we should be making plans to terraform our home planet so that we can survive (as a race) long enough to get the F!!Ck off it.

 

Yours

 

peter Dunn