Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 4:43 PM, mar_mar said: Because of the memory Expand What memory? They are blind from birth. On 12/3/2023 at 4:43 PM, mar_mar said: And concepts Expand What concepts?
iNow Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 4:43 PM, mar_mar said: Is there difference between animal's mind and human's mind? Expand Which animals?
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 4:50 PM, Genady said: What memory? They are blind from birth. What concepts? Expand Concepts with which we understand and explain the world. Concept like the name of something. Round square Jupiter tree leaf to live, these all are concepts because we can explain WHAT is this.
Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:07 PM, mar_mar said: Concepts with which we understand and explain the world. Concept like the name of something. Round square Jupiter tree leaf to live, these all are concepts because we can explain WHAT is this. Expand The point is that all this is obtained without colors.
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 4:58 PM, iNow said: Which animals? Expand "The human brain is special when compared to the animal brain in several ways: we have developed a complex language system that allows us to communicate and express our thoughts and feelings effectively when compared to animals, we have higher cognitive abilities, such as to think on our own, being aware of ourselves." (c) On 12/3/2023 at 5:09 PM, Genady said: The point is that all this is obtained without colors. Expand No, with colors.
Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:11 PM, mar_mar said: No, with colors. Expand Blind from birth people - what colors?
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:26 PM, Genady said: Blind from birth people - what colors? Expand Sorry, my mistake. I mean that all this is obtained due to our HUMAN mind. We have concepts.
Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:29 PM, mar_mar said: Sorry, my mistake. I mean that all this is obtained due to our HUMAN mind. We have concepts. Expand So, contrary to the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", blind from birth people receive a shape of an item NOT thanks to a color.
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) This is my idea: the world is created. And a man is created. That's what I want to say. Because we don't see the world as it really is. On 12/3/2023 at 5:38 PM, Genady said: So, contrary to the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", blind from birth people receive a shape of an item NOT thanks to a color. Expand I am not talking about blind people, but the ability of a human brain to interpret the wavelength like colour. Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar
Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:45 PM, mar_mar said: I am not talking about blind people Expand So, in the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", the blind people are not included in the WE?
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) On 12/3/2023 at 5:51 PM, Genady said: So, in the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", the blind people are not included in the WE? Expand You move away from the whole to the particular, trying to catch me up. I'm talking about the principle of receiving information of an item. Maybe a blind from birth person have a parent, or a friend, or relative, or social worker, who will give the information of an item to the person. The information obtained due to colours. So, it is WE always. Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar -1
Genady Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:04 PM, mar_mar said: Maybe a blind from birth person have a parent, or a friend, or relative, or social worker, who will give the information of an item to the person. Expand Not necessarily. Blind people know shapes and sizes of new items by themselves, using hands, sticks, etc., without having somebody telling them.
Phi for All Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:04 PM, mar_mar said: You move away from the whole to the particular, trying to catch me up. Expand How can the whole be correct if the particulars aren't? Nobody is trying to "catch you up", we just want you to explain this concept, and parts of your explanation don't make sense. How can colors be a factor to someone who's never seen them? How could someone explain what colors are to someone who's never seen them?
Bufofrog Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 5:45 PM, mar_mar said: This is my idea: the world is created. And a man is created. That's what I want to say. Expand The earth and the solar system were created about 4.5 billion years ago when a molecular cloud collapsed due to gravity. Man evolved to his current form (homo sapiens sapiens) about 150,000 years ago. On 12/3/2023 at 5:45 PM, mar_mar said: Because we don't see the world as it really is. Expand We sense the universe based on how our brain interprets various inputs (color, sound, touch)... Hard to define how the universe 'really' is.
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:14 PM, Genady said: Not necessarily. Blind people know shapes and sizes of new items by themselves, using hands, sticks, etc., without having somebody telling them. Expand But blind people live in the social world. We have to socialize for making living. Once I helped a blind man to get to the bus. The bus came, people moved to the bus, and the man didn't know where to go, because bus arrived not right to the bus stop. He took my hand like a lifebuoy. I wanted to cry at that moment, because he was so helpless. Then moment changed, he got to the bus, began talking to the driver. It was some relief. But at that moment I knew that I had to be greatfull for the things, which I took for granted: ability to see, to hear, to walk, to feel, etc.
Phi for All Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:39 PM, mar_mar said: But blind people live in the social world. We have to socialize for making living. Once I helped a blind man to get to the bus. The bus came, people moved to the bus, and the man didn't know where to go, because bus arrived not right to the bus stop. He took my hand like a lifebuoy. I wanted to cry at that moment, because he was so helpless. Then moment changed, he got to the bus, began talking to the driver. It was some relief. But at that moment I knew that I had to be greatfull for the things, which I took for granted: ability to see, to hear, to walk, to feel, etc. Expand How do you think you would have explained color to this man? If he'd never seen anything in his life, what could you say that to help him understand such a bizarre concept?
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 6:43 PM, Phi for All said: How do you think you would have explained color to this man? If he'd never seen anything in his life, what could you say that to help him understand such a bizarre concept? Expand That fact, that there are people who can't see, doesn't deny another fact, that there's no colour in the nature. And colour exists only in a human world. Human, because animals don't know what is colour, they don't know the word "colour", and they don't know the concept "colour". They "take" colour as it is. For animals colour is the way of survival. For humans colour is also the way survival and and it also has an aesthetic sense. All the masterpieces, pictures, books, photos, etc. are evidence of the world. Man also creates the world. -1
swansont Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 9:07 PM, mar_mar said: That fact, that there are people who can't see, doesn't deny another fact, that there's no colour in the nature. And colour exists only in a human world. Human, because animals don't know what is colour, they don't know the word "colour", and they don't know the concept "colour". They "take" colour as it is. For animals colour is the way of survival. For humans colour is also the way survival and and it also has an aesthetic sense. All the masterpieces, pictures, books, photos, etc. are evidence of the world. Man also creates the world. Expand Why does it matter if they don’t know what the word means? Some animals can perceive color. It impacts their survival.
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) I think that real world is a pure light. And there is no reality like we think of it. There are 8 billions of the different worlds. That's all. And there are things that people have agreed on: colours, time, concepts, borders, knowledge... On 12/3/2023 at 6:19 PM, Bufofrog said: The earth and the solar system were created about 4.5 billion years ago when a molecular cloud collapsed due to gravity. Expand So, how does it happen that there's no colours in the nature? But human mind have an ability to interpret it with colours? Why is that? On 12/3/2023 at 9:12 PM, swansont said: Why does it matter if they don’t know what the word means? Some animals can perceive color. It impacts their survival. Expand I think that a colour for animals is like a feeling for humans. Sometimes I can't explain what I feel, I just feel it. Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar
Bufofrog Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 9:13 PM, mar_mar said: So, how does it happen that there's no colours in the nature? Expand There are wavelengths of light that our brains interpret as green. On 12/3/2023 at 9:13 PM, mar_mar said: But human mind have an ability to interpret it with colours? Expand It is an evolutionary benefit to interpret different wavelengths of light as different colors. On 12/3/2023 at 9:13 PM, mar_mar said: I think that a colour for animals is like a feeling for humans. Sometimes I can't explain what I feel, I just feel it. Expand That doesn't really make any sense to me.
KJW Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On another now defunct science forum, there was a thread that was quite notable among forum members for being the longest thread in the history of the forum. It was titled: "What colour is an orange in the dark?"
mar_mar Posted December 3, 2023 Author Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 9:54 PM, Bufofrog said: There are wavelengths of light that our brains interpret as green. It is an evolutionary benefit to interpret different wavelengths of light as different colors. Expand And why does the light have different length of waves? If the light didn't have different length of the waves, there would be no human mind. That's why I think there's a strong connection between light and a human mind. On 12/3/2023 at 9:54 PM, Bufofrog said: That doesn't really make any sense to me. Expand How do you think animals distinguish colours?
zapatos Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 10:19 PM, mar_mar said: If the light didn't have different length of the waves, there would be no human mind. Expand Wait. What?!?! On 12/3/2023 at 10:19 PM, mar_mar said: How do you think animals distinguish colours? Expand Eyes, nerves, brains. The regular way.
Bufofrog Posted December 3, 2023 Posted December 3, 2023 (edited) On 12/3/2023 at 10:19 PM, mar_mar said: And why does the light have different length of waves? Expand Because EM radiation can have different energies. Why does EM radiation have different energies? That is the way the universe is. Edited December 3, 2023 by Bufofrog
exchemist Posted December 4, 2023 Posted December 4, 2023 On 12/3/2023 at 10:09 PM, KJW said: On another now defunct science forum, there was a thread that was quite notable among forum members for being the longest thread in the history of the forum. It was titled: "What colour is an orange in the dark?" Expand Was that one of Theorist’s?
Recommended Posts