Colour

[Genady]

6 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

Because of the memory

What memory? They are blind from birth.

 

6 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

And concepts

What concepts?

[iNow]

15 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

Is there difference between animal's mind and human's mind?

Which animals?

[mar_mar]

11 minutes ago, Genady said:

What memory? They are blind from birth.

 

What concepts?

Concepts with which we understand and explain the world. Concept like the name of something. Round square Jupiter tree leaf to live, these all are concepts because we can explain WHAT is this. 

[Genady]

Just now, mar_mar said:

Concepts with which we understand and explain the world. Concept like the name of something. Round square Jupiter tree leaf to live, these all are concepts because we can explain WHAT is this. 

The point is that all this is obtained without colors.

[mar_mar]

11 minutes ago, iNow said:

Which animals?

"The human brain is special when compared to the animal brain in several ways: we have developed a complex language system that allows us to communicate and express our thoughts and feelings effectively when compared to animals, we have higher cognitive abilities, such as to think on our own, being aware of ourselves." (c)

9 minutes ago, Genady said:

The point is that all this is obtained without colors.

No, with colors.

[Genady]

14 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

No, with colors.

Blind from birth people - what colors?

[mar_mar]

Just now, Genady said:

Blind from birth people - what colors?

Sorry, my mistake.  I mean that all  this is obtained due to our HUMAN mind. We have concepts. 

[Genady]

4 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

Sorry, my mistake.  I mean that all  this is obtained due to our HUMAN mind. We have concepts. 

So, contrary to the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", blind from birth people receive a shape of an item NOT thanks to a color.

 

[mar_mar]

This is my idea: the world is created. And a man is created. That's what I want to say. 

Because we don't see the world as it really is. 

7 minutes ago, Genady said:

So, contrary to the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", blind from birth people receive a shape of an item NOT thanks to a color.

 

I am not talking about blind people, but the ability of a human brain to interpret the wavelength like colour. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar

[Genady]

5 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

I am not talking about blind people

So, in the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", the blind people are not included in the WE?

[mar_mar]

12 minutes ago, Genady said:

So, in the assertion that "we do receive a shape of an item thanks to a colour", the blind people are not included in the WE?

You move away from the whole to the particular, trying to catch me up. I'm talking about the  principle of  receiving information of an item. 

Maybe a blind from birth person have a parent, or a friend, or relative, or social worker, who will give the information of an item to the person. The information obtained due to colours. 

So, it is WE always. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar

[Genady]

7 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

Maybe a blind from birth person have a parent, or a friend, or relative, or social worker, who will give the information of an item to the person.

Not necessarily. Blind people know shapes and sizes of new items by themselves, using hands, sticks, etc., without having somebody telling them.

[Phi for All]

7 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

You move away from the whole to the particular, trying to catch me up.

How can the whole be correct if the particulars aren't? Nobody is trying to "catch you up", we just want you to explain this concept, and parts of your explanation don't make sense. How can colors be a factor to someone who's never seen them? How could someone explain what colors are to someone who's never seen them?

[Bufofrog]

19 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

This is my idea: the world is created. And a man is created. That's what I want to say. 

The earth and the solar system were created about 4.5 billion years ago when a molecular cloud collapsed due to gravity.

Man evolved to his current form (homo sapiens sapiens) about 150,000 years ago.

29 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

Because we don't see the world as it really is. 

We sense the universe based on how our brain interprets various inputs (color, sound, touch)...  Hard to define how the universe 'really' is.

[mar_mar]

3 minutes ago, Genady said:

Not necessarily. Blind people know shapes and sizes of new items by themselves, using hands, sticks, etc., without having somebody telling them.

But blind people live in the social world. We have to socialize for making living. 

Once I helped a blind man to get to the bus. The bus came, people moved to the bus, and the man didn't know where to go, because bus arrived not right to the bus stop. He took my hand like a lifebuoy. I wanted to cry at that moment, because he was so helpless. Then moment changed, he got to the bus, began talking to the driver. It was some relief.  But at that moment I knew that I had to be greatfull for the things, which I took for granted: ability to see, to hear, to walk, to feel, etc.

[Phi for All]

2 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

But blind people live in the social world. We have to socialize for making living. 

Once I helped a blind man to get to the bus. The bus came, people moved to the bus, and the man didn't know where to go, because bus arrived not right to the bus stop. He took my hand like a lifebuoy. I wanted to cry at that moment, because he was so helpless. Then moment changed, he got to the bus, began talking to the driver. It was some relief.  But at that moment I knew that I had to be greatfull for the things, which I took for granted: ability to see, to hear, to walk, to feel, etc.

How do you think you would have explained color to this man? If he'd never seen anything in his life, what could you say that to help him understand such a bizarre concept?

[mar_mar]

1 hour ago, Phi for All said:

How do you think you would have explained color to this man? If he'd never seen anything in his life, what could you say that to help him understand such a bizarre concept?

That fact, that there are people who can't see, doesn't deny another fact, that there's no colour in the nature. And colour exists only in a human world. Human, because animals don't know what is colour, they don't know the word "colour", and they don't know the concept "colour". They "take" colour as it is. For animals colour is the way of survival. For humans colour is also the way survival and and it also has an aesthetic sense. All the masterpieces, pictures, books, photos, etc. are evidence of the world. Man also creates the world. 

[swansont]

1 minute ago, mar_mar said:

That fact, that there are people who can't see, doesn't deny another fact, that there's no colour in the nature. And colour exists only in a human world. Human, because animals don't know what is colour, they don't know the word "colour", and they don't know the concept "colour". They "take" colour as it is. For animals colour is the way of survival. For humans colour is also the way survival and and it also has an aesthetic sense. All the masterpieces, pictures, books, photos, etc. are evidence of the world. Man also creates the world. 

Why does it matter if they don’t know what the word means? Some animals can perceive color. It impacts their survival.

[mar_mar]

I think that real world is a pure light. And there is no reality like we think of it. There are 8 billions of the different worlds. That's all. And there are things that people have agreed on: colours, time, concepts, borders, knowledge...

3 hours ago, Bufofrog said:

The earth and the solar system were created about 4.5 billion years ago when a molecular cloud collapsed due to gravity.

 

So, how does it happen that there's no colours in the nature? But human mind have an ability to interpret it with colours? 

Why is that? 

25 minutes ago, swansont said:

Why does it matter if they don’t know what the word means? Some animals can perceive color. It impacts their survival.

I think that a colour for animals is like a feeling for humans. Sometimes I can't explain what I feel, I just feel it. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by mar_mar

[Bufofrog]

33 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

So, how does it happen that there's no colours in the nature?

There are wavelengths of light that our brains interpret as green.

35 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

But human mind have an ability to interpret it with colours?

It is an evolutionary benefit to interpret different wavelengths of light as different colors.

38 minutes ago, mar_mar said:

I think that a colour for animals is like a feeling for humans. Sometimes I can't explain what I feel, I just feel it.

That doesn't really make any sense to me.

[KJW]

On another now defunct science forum, there was a thread that was quite notable among forum members for being the longest thread in the history of the forum. It was titled: "What colour is an orange in the dark?"

 

 

[mar_mar]

12 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

There are wavelengths of light that our brains interpret as green.

It is an evolutionary benefit to interpret different wavelengths of light as different colors.

 

And why does the light have different length of waves? 

If the light didn't have different length of the waves, there would be no human mind. 

That's why I think there's a strong connection between light and a human mind. 

 

33 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

 

That doesn't really make any sense to me.

How do you think animals distinguish colours? 

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, mar_mar said:

If the light didn't have different length of the waves, there would be no human mind. 

 

Wait. What?!?!

1 hour ago, mar_mar said:

How do you think animals distinguish colours? 

Eyes, nerves, brains. The regular way.

[Bufofrog]

1 hour ago, mar_mar said:

And why does the light have different length of waves?

Because EM radiation can have different energies.  Why does EM radiation have different energies?  That is the way the universe is.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Bufofrog

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, KJW said:

On another now defunct science forum, there was a thread that was quite notable among forum members for being the longest thread in the history of the forum. It was titled: "What colour is an orange in the dark?"

 

 

Was that one of Theorist’s?