Psychology of Gender - I am hearing/reading conflicting information.

[MathHelp]

When I studied Psychology, I learned that there is very little difference between men and women psychologically. The differences that psychologists do see often disappear when controls are put in place.

However, at the same time there are people who identify as the opposite gender (or no gender at all). Doesn't that imply that there are psychological differences between the male and females? What am I missing here?

Perhaps I am misremembering what I learned - could it be that there are no differences intellectually between males and females but that there are other differences?

The other thing that confused me is that my understanding is that hormones effect our mental states - but males and females have different levels of hormones so shouldn't that mean there is a difference?

Apologies if anything I have said implies something offensive. I am not trying to be offensive and psychology/humanities/gender is not my area of expertise. So I don't know if I am making assumptions I shouldn't or if I have fundamentally misunderstood what I am hearing/learning etc etc

[iNow]

I see it more as an issue of identity. I may identify as a baseball player, or as an artist, or as a father. As I approach the world, I am just being myself as who I am. 

The world then tries to impose other labels on me. Those labels aren’t always ideal. Gender is more of a spectrum than a binary set of two, and sometimes trying to force ourselves into just one of those two buckets feels like smashing a square peg through a round hole. 

Likely in part due to how little gender matters when interacting online and how many hours of our existence are now spent online, more and more people are simply being authentic, less concerned about ostracization, and saying “I no longer feel like smashing myself every day to fit your arbitrary outdated shape.”

So, maybe being born with a penis isn’t what makes the male, or being born with a vagina isn’t what makes the female. Maybe hormones are weird and not black and white. Maybe we can just start being ourselves as humans and stop giving a shit if someone else fits into MY rigid categories. 

Apologies if this isn’t the type of answer you’d hoped for.  Definitions change all the time. What’s weird is how people seem to get so spun around the axle on this particular one. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by iNow

[MathHelp]

The psychology textbook I studied said sex (I understand sex is different to gender) has four dimensions - hormonal, gonadal, genetic, and genitals. That might be relevant to what you are saying (that there are not just two - you can have all kinds of variations among the four dimensions).

However, the main point of confusion for me is the psychological aspect of things - where there seems to be conflicting information. Because some people are telling me there is no difference between male and females psychologically while others feel and difference within themselves - and want to identify consistent with that difference.

[zapatos]

9 minutes ago, MathHelp said:

Because some people are telling me there is no difference between male and females psychologically

Perhaps you can supply us with a citation that you found indicating no psychological difference between males and females. That way we will know the details of what they are saying and can give you a more meaningful reply. 

[MathHelp]

7 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Perhaps you can supply us with a citation that you found indicating no psychological difference between males and females. That way we will know the details of what they are saying and can give you a more meaningful reply. 

I can't because they were real life people that told me that there is no difference psychologically between males/females. One is a friend from the past (no longer in contact with them) who is a counsellor, and the other was a university professor who taught feminism. 

I also remember from my old Psychology textbook (I no longer own) that gave a graph with two bell curves close together that said that research into the differences between men and woman usually result in a graph that looks similar (two bell curves very close together) and that differences that are observed between the two bell curves often disappear when controls are put in place for education, age groups, etc etc

The two bell curves were generic and looked like this but were slightly closer together:

 

Obviously, no one I have met has suggested that males and females are not physically different. 

I hear people say "there is no difference between men and women psychologically speaking" frequently enough that I was actually expecting not to actual need to cite any source. I was actually expecting responses to be something along the lines of "it is true that psychological studies have not found a difference but that does not mean there is not difference, it just means we have not done the right studies yet".

Edited December 16, 2023 by MathHelp

[iNow]

17 minutes ago, MathHelp said:

some people are telling me there is no difference between male and females psychologically

Differences psychologically can be from, biology, upbringing, social norms and expectations, impact of puberty, etc. Since even two identical twin siblings will from each other, it’s not surprise than differences can be found across populations of males and females. 

 

20 minutes ago, MathHelp said:

while others feel and difference within themselves - and want to identify consistent with that difference.

What matters most is what you think and feel. Life becomes a lot less stressful when you stop worrying about what others think of you. 
 

[MathHelp]

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What matters most is what you think and feel. Life becomes a lot less stressful when you stop worrying about what others think of you. 

I think your not understanding the nature of my question. 

I am trying to understand whether there is a recognised psychological difference between men and women and if there isn't, then how does psychologically explain that there are people who specifically feel like they are members of the opposite sex.

I understand that there is a gender spectrum but it is not quite the answer I am looking for and I am concerned that this will result in answers to questions that I am not asking about. 

[iNow]

I reject your framing of the question.

Psychological differences are everywhere. They come from many sources. Biology, culture, parents, nutrition even.

Since even identical twins have psychological differences, and even males have differences from other males / females have differences from other females, yes. You can also find differences between males and females… but are those just from society? The way parents buy dolls for girls and trucks for boys? The way the math teacher shows a soft bigotry of low expectations to girls in their classroom?

Or is it biology… something about having that extra X chromosome or less testosterone that changes psychology… or is it a combination of those things?

This isn’t math. Nobody can give you a simple answer and tell you 2+2 = 4. It’s far more complicated than that. If the world doesn’t fit neatly into your mental framework, the problem isn’t with the world. 

When people identify one way or the other, it’s usually because that’s what the doctor told them and what their parents and family and community have told them all their lives. When they reject that it’s generally because they feel differently from how they’ve been told to feel and they decided to do something about it. 

Each and every one of us has a slightly different version of what gender means to us. Sometimes 2+2=4, and other times 2+2= banana. Humans are weird. 

[MathHelp]

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I reject your framing of the question.

That's fine, but can I ask that you simply don't answer and let others make a decision on whether they want to answer my question or not?

Not trying to be rude, but your responses are not clearing up the point of confusion for me and I don't want my topic derailed.

I am asking a question about two competing pieces of information that I am receiving and your answers are not helping me to make sense of those competing bits of information.

I would add, that the information that you have provided is information I am already familiar with - but it is not assisting me with my question.

[zapatos]

58 minutes ago, MathHelp said:

I hear people say "there is no difference between men and women psychologically speaking" frequently enough that I was actually expecting not to actual need to cite any source.

I would suggest it is self-evident that there are psychological differences between men and women. On average, women cry more than men, men are more aggressive, women are more social, men have higher self esteem, women are more extroverted, women are have more anxiety, women are more nurturing. Anyone who has spent time with  both men and women will have recognized many differences.

A simple Google search seems to suggest there are well known and obvious psychological differences as iNow pointed out due to biology, culture, etc.

Quote

Sex differences in psychology are differences in the mental functions and behaviors of the sexes and are due to a complex interplay of biological, developmental, and cultural factors. Differences have been found in a variety of fields such as mental health, cognitive abilities, personality, emotion, sexuality, and tendency towards aggression. Such variation may be innate, learned, or both.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_differences_in_psychology#:~:text=Males on average are more,mindedness (e.g.%2C nurturance).

[CharonY]

I think it is an issue of perspective and it is tricky to figure theinterface between Biology, inner perception, outward presentation (both of which are heavilyinfluend by culture and learning) and what psychological measures we use. As mentioned, most things are gradual, rather than categorical. That is zaoatos' mentioning of averages is exactly. In a given context we can find differences in the means, but some measures overlap more than others.

So you could say men are more likely more aggressive than women, but if you could not state with certainty that the woman in front of you is certainly going to be more aggressive (right now) than her male counterparts, if that makes sense.

Even social attraction is not 100% sexually coded (as homo- bi- an asexuality exists, but most are heterosexual).