Not Science, we are told

[timokay]

Tim,

 

I am telling you that these are ultramolecular drugs;

 

Albert,

 

The problem is that an "ultramolecular" mode of action is not known anywhere else in Science...yes, the Physicists have identified many enigmatic and elusive particles, but only under the most extreme experimental conditions which have no "real applications" or known interactions with Biological systems (unless you have some evidence for some). You would expect such interactions to crop up somewhere in areas other than in Homeopathy.

 

People with a Scientific background find such a mechanism very hard to swallow because it sounds so unusual and obscure...they would have been told something about it during their years of Science & General education.

 

...you cannot think of them having chemical effects.

So long as you do, you will find zero.

 

Hahnemann said that about the chemistry of life, but he could not have predicted the rise of Civilization and Science which occurred in the 20th Century.

 

You could also ask him, "How do you know that?" and "How do you know what the future holds?"

 

However, he cracked the problem of disease without knowing the physiological/biochemical processes of life, but how they behave as a whole.

 

If we take Syphilis as an example (and I'll tell you why later), we know that Mercury was found to be medicinal before Hahnemann's time (i.e., first treated in 1496)...but it had serious toxic effects because its a poison and they were administering far too much of it. (They didn't know how little they needed - as long as it reached the site of action).

 

Hahnemann diluted and potentized the Mercury, and it cured the disease completely with a single dose (so long as the Syphilis was not complicated with other diseases). This sounds simple, but it was after Hahnemann had done a hell of a lot of work experimenting to find the best preparations and doses of Mercury.

 

You know all this of course, Albert, (so this is directed at other readers) but my point is that, regarding this disease with an obvious diagnosis we can set the "Law of Similars" aside. Syphilis is a known disease to both Homeopathy and Science.

 

The mercury is selectively interfering with the bacterium (Treponema pallidum) which causes Syphilis, enabling the Immune System to easily conquer it. These days, Syphilis is cured with antibiotics. In Hahnemann's time, antibiotics did not exist.

 

http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/s/syphilis/causes.htm

 

Bacteria have a different kind of cell structure to multicellular animals. It is called the "Prokaryote" cell - it has no membrane covering the nucleus. This, and other differences in these cells can be exploited to target the bacterium without significantly affecting the animal's cells. But Mercury is so deadly, getting the dose right is essential.

 

"Mercury compounds: They are highly toxic to bacteria, plants, fungi and animals. Mercuric salts, e.g. HgCl2, is a severe irritant as well. Organo mercury compounds are less irritating, but still toxic. Examples include penotrane and thimersol. These were used as 'wound disinfectants' in a 0.1% solution. Organomercury compounds still had limited uses up to the 1950s as plant fungicides and for the preservation of leather, textiles and timber. Obviously not used nowadays due to the toxicity of the mercury."

 

Hahnemann explained how Syphilis is a chronic disease that continues throughout the patient's life until death, though it can cause death itself, unless it is cured.

 

The body's defences cannot usually destroy this bacterium, so they use a strategy of containment - effectively pushing the disease out to the skin where it remains. But, it is still a systemic (whole body) disease, and surgical removal or burning away of the skin symptoms does not eliminate the disease...instead, it becomes a more serious systemic disease, targeting other organs, as Hahnemann pointed out.

 

So, antibiotics and mercury both cure Syphilis. Both kill the bacterium, so that the Immune System can eradicate it.

 

My point is: When Hahnemann diluted and succussed mercury to make the very successful potentized mercury medicine, he made something that, when it entered the body's tissues, was able to move quickly through the body and affect the bacterium, WITHOUT UPSETTING significantly any of the many other processes going on. But, its action MUST be at the chemical level. All Hahnemann did was greatly improve the delivery system.

 

This is the full story of Syphilis, by Hahnemann.

 

http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?threadid=26528&perpage=20&pagenumber=20

 

OR, select Syphilis on this site:

 

http://www.homeoint.org/books/hahchrdi/

 

As subAvogadrean, ultramolecular drugs, they are etheric medicines.

 

It appears that they hold dimensional space on the Physical Plane by doing something to water and alcohol molecules, but it could only be the etheric particles of the original substance that act on us, just as we have always said.

 

They must interact with the chemical level somewhere?

Science has already proven conclusively that Mercury acts on the bacterium causing Syphilis, to destroy it.

 

Are you saying potentised Mercury acts in a completely different way on Syphilis?

This is why I chose Syphilis as an example.

 

I am certainly not excluding subAvogadrean, ultramolecular drugs simply because we don't yet know the way such dilute solutions carry the medicine.

 

The easiest explanation is that the Q-potencies of Hahnemann are not subAvogadrean at all. Don't forget that each step uses poppy seed sized sucrose globules..these are participating in carrying the signal...they could be the sole carriers...water/ethanol dilution occurs, but there is always a soaked sucrose globule carried through the process, whether solid or dissolved.

 

As for the immune response, there are lots of activities asside from it that homeopathic medicines affect and cure.

 

How would the immune system be involved in psychiatric cases or broken bones and repair of wounds, or in diabetes or strokes, or in genetic diseases and ingrown toenails?

 

Know what I mean, Gene?

 

Yes Sir, this was one direction I followed because the "lead time" between administering the drug and the appearance of symptoms matches some immune system processes.

 

The diseased tissues or processes involved are the target, whether directly or indirectly.

 

Re. repair of wounds & broken bones, the immune system is certainly involved but acute inflammatory processes are more prominent. It is difficult to separate these from each other, and from Homeostasis. Let's get these in perspective:

 

A. IMMUNE RESPONSE

 

The immune response, briefly, has three phases:

 

1. Afferent Loop: recognition system for antigens (e.g., microorganisms) and conveys the antigen or antigen-presenting cell to the sites which deal with it. Cells called macrophages do this.

 

2. Lymphoid tissues: where immune system cells (lymphocytes) react with the antigen.

 

3. Efferent Loop: the triggered biological effects of the immune response, i.e., how the body deals with the antigen.

We are focused here.

 

B. INFLAMMATORY RESPONSE

 

The (acute) inflammatory response is something different from the immune response, but they usually work together in the body.

 

C. HOMEOSTASIS

 

Homeostasis is so entwined, you could say the above are homeostatic processes (separated only to facilitate understanding).

 

You had some other points, but I would prefer to wait until the above are discussed.

 

Tim

[timokay]

Albert,

 

This is the second part of the answers to your last post.

 

It appears that the immune system forms the most aggressive and organism-wide system that reflects the correction of the etheric pattern, but you have to think more deeply about the human organism to grasp this construct.[/Quote]

 

The meaning of "that reflects the correction" confuses me, and the rest of the sentence.

 

There seems to be some interaction between the ether and the (chemical) immune system. (?)

 

Ether is a word that bothers Scientists because, at school, we were told it doesn't exist. The closest I can manage is "synergy" in complicated systems, mentioned before.

 

Every physical particle of matter has an etheric counterpart, and that collective of etheric particles constitute an etheric pattern.[/Quote]

 

A very large pill for someone with a Science background to swallow. I would like to learn more about it before forming an opinion.

 

Re. the Ether, this direction seems to have been the only alternative available in those days when Homeopathic medicines were believed to be subAvogadrean. They had to find an explanation - a carrier for the medicine.

 

That is probably unnecessary today.

Prove that the medicines are subAvogadrean. Are sterile conditions used during preparation? 1000's of molecules of the medicine are flying around in the air. It certainly needs to be proved that the Q-potencies are subAvogadrean because of the sucrose globules after each step.

They also believed the ethanol/water to be just passive dilutants, and that may not be the case.

 

In the human and animal organism, it is called the Vital Body.

 

That is not the same thing as Hahnemann's generic vital force or vital principle of life, for it also includes the other two levels of man and the other plane of animals.[/Quote]

 

I sense something mystical...like a theory becoming a firm belief...but is there anything solid...any evidence?

 

In the plant world, that etheric pattern is sometimes called the vegetable spark of life; and in minerals or inorganic matter, it is called the etheric pattern.

 

So there are trillions of them comprising our etheric pattern.[/Quote]

 

Who is the originator/author of this?

 

The homeopathic medicine logically somehow sets that in order, remembering that arcane sources speak of it going out of kilter by being "no longer integral."

 

It is therefore reintegrated, per se.[/Quote]

 

Yikes! I'm lost again. Not surprising, since I know nothing about it.

 

Whatever happens, it occurs at that level since they are ultramolecular drugs.

 

The physical body takes shape according to the etheric pattern, so we see cures occuring like magic according to absolutes called natural laws because these are field effects of the whole organism because the whole etheric pattern is corrected.

 

Do dat mak sens?[/Quote]

 

Nope. Tell me where I can learn more.

 

Off to France...back Sunday.

 

Tim

[Hahnemannian444]

Tim says:

 

But, its action MUST be at the chemical level.

 

Why?

 

They must interact with the chemical level somewhere?

 

I don't think you understand what is meant by etheric substance and etheric pattern.

 

Everything has an etheric counterpart because every subatomic particle of matter and every quantum particle of electromagnetic radiation also exists as an etheric particle.

 

Our medicines are ultramolecular and therefore etheric, which means they do something to the etheric pattern.

 

Making it once again integral would be a logical general assumption.

 

The physical body takes shape according to the etheric pattern, which DNA and RNA are only mechanisms for, so our curing of the etheric pattern sets aright the chemical level of being as a whole.

 

It does it indirectly by permitting the organism to do what it is supposed to do if it had been functioning optimally.

 

That's how I understand it.

 

If you want to make ultramolecular, subAvogadrean drugs act physical, I think you have some insoluble problems ahead of you.

 

The fact that materialists have problems with these concepts is not my problem, but they are the ones who cannot cure so it doesn't matter to me what they think of me or homeopathy since quacks are hardly in the position to make evaluations of us.

 

I'm not going to stand in your way, though, if you want to pursue this line of reasoning, for there are a great many like you who have produced a lot of literature in the process.

 

I always found it hokum because they ignore the fact that we use ultramolecular drugs.

 

To me, this is a simple thing that cannot be ignored.

 

And I don't know why you want to make this medicinal activity a mechanism since it would be an etheric mechanism forever indecernible to physical apparatus and senses.

 

What you are talking about is the mechanism of the Law of Similars.

 

That is completely different than figuring out the mechanism of homeopathic pharmacology, for this does seem to lend itself to a physical mechanism since aggitation of half-full vials (succussion) through serial dilutions is a physical process.

 

Something therefore must occur that's measurable.

 

The result would be these crystals Lo discovered.

 

I think you're wanting to make them act physically and chemically, thinking that a mechanism is involved, instead of realizing that they're the result of what we're looking for.

 

Is that clear?

 

dilute solutions carry the medicine.

 

This terminology may confuse you into thinking of a mechanism.

 

We sometimes hear that the globules, granules, powders, tablets and liquid medium is the "carrier medium" of/for the medicine.

 

Those people seem to properly understand what's involved, for it essentially says the same thing I did when I invoked the notion of the etheric pattern of the medicine holding dimensional space via the crystalization of water and alcohol molecules Lo discovered.

 

If, on the other hand, you are thinking of something being carried piggyback like an invisible chemical, OOps! try again.

 

I understand the difficulty of this conceptualization, but stick with it.

 

The easiest explanation is that the Q-potencies of Hahnemann are not subAvogadrean at all. Don't forget that each step uses poppy seed sized sucrose globules..these are participating in carrying the signal...they could be the sole carriers...water/ethanol dilution occurs, but there is always a soaked sucrose globule carried through the process, whether solid or dissolved.

 

OOps! You seem to have a misconception about this scale of potentization.

 

They are diluted at 1:50k rather than 1:100 or 1:10, but they do become subAvogadrean at either Q3 or Q5.

 

I don't understand why you think there is a difference.

 

What Hahnemann overcame with the Q-potencies was the adverse effects of centesimals.

 

For unknown reasons they cannot be repeated without adverse effects, sometimes not even after a month.

 

Those problems went poof with Q-potencies.

 

Hering gave Hahnemann the idea for this.

 

the "lead time" between administering the drug and the appearance of symptoms matches some immune system processes.

 

I beg to differ with you.

 

In cases of malposition of the fetus, I've administered the drug with a stethoscope positioned over the abdomen because I'd heard it is instantaneous.

 

I've confirmed it is instantaneous commotion, for lack of a better word for whatever happens, followed by rapid innervation to proper position in a few minutes.

 

These are field effects, sir.

 

I touched one etheric pattern with another one that closely matches it, and the effect was thus instantaneous.

 

I don't know what happens or how, but I do know it is not chemically mediated.

 

We essentially touch the Soul (in the parlance of most people) with the person's simillimum and create magical results like snapping our fingers and saying, "poof! you're cured!"

 

The drug does this, though.

 

Rather, the person's etheric pattern cures itself once the drug touches it for a nanosecond.

 

Robert M. Schore, M.D., gave me that thought of it acting for a nanosecond.

 

Ask him what he meant; it might help you understand what I'm trying to say.

 

The meaning of "that reflects the correction" confuses me, and the rest of the sentence.

 

What happens in the physical organism after we administer the simillimum could only be effects precipitated at the etheric level of being, so I used the word "reflect" to represent that.

 

As for the "rest of the sentence," I suspect you mean what I said about the immune system being the most aggressive and organism-wide system reflecting this process.

 

This is mentioned because lots of chronic diseases are foul ups of the immune system as autoimmune diseases.

 

Lupus, arthritic, scleroderma, Hodgkin's, any number of systemic diseases appear to be autoimmune diseases and are thus ones of the immune system being directly involved.

 

We thus often see it as part of the symptom picture.

 

But my point is that it is not the only one because lots of other processes we cure do not involve the immune system (IS).

 

Psychiatric patients have disordered Minds or are victims of some brain pathology, and the IS is not a player here.

 

The other examples I gave also show this.

 

If you ask me particulars, I'll probably not know the answers and doubt that anyone does, for nobody has ever looked at these things in this way.

 

Allopaths are famous for viewing effects and calling them causes, and they've been going through these gyrations of assigning causes here and then deeper causes there forever.

 

Ether is a word that bothers Scientists because, at school, we were told it doesn't exist. The closest I can manage is "synergy" in complicated systems, mentioned before.

 

Yeah, but we live in a time that they have all but admitted to it.

 

They have over 20 synonyms and major manifestations of it now.

 

For instance, of the latter we have cosmic microwave background radiation.

 

Tell me what they're talking about since cosmic rays are already particles and waves.

 

Another example arises from a question: where are all the neutrinos since they have a half-life near infinity?

 

Virtual particles and the vacuum energy of empty space are the two most visible examples.

 

Are you going to tell me that these are not etheric particles and energy?

 

Of course they are!

 

DeBroglie: the subquantic medium.

 

Einstein: the cosmological constant.

 

Chiu: the neutrino flux.

 

H.C. Dudley: the neutrino sea.

 

Quintessence from String Theory explains matter inside of black holes, and those ain't physical particles.

 

Tachyons are the only explanation for the wave phenomenon of the propogation of light.

 

Blackbody radiation is another field effect that's universe wide.

 

It's probably an unsustainable example, but I have yet to confirm its questionable status as a manifestation of the Ether.

 

How about their notion of parallel universes and dimensions?

 

What are they talking about if not the Etheric Plane?

 

Our drugs force the issue too, so they're going to have to accept the Ether; so it's their problem, not ours.

 

Somebody told them the Ether doesn't exist, but who told them to stop thinking?

 

in those days when Homeopathic medicines were believed to be subAvogadrean.

 

Ah.........what?

 

You think they're not?

 

Prove that the medicines are subAvogadrean.

 

6.023 x 10 to the 23rd power times 10 to the negative 24th power and you are improbably going to have anything of the original substance remaining, which are a 24x and 12c potencies, but at 30c and higher, they're definitely subAvogadrean.

 

Of course they're subAvogadrean.

 

What am I missing in what you said?

 

They also believed the ethanol/water to be just passive dilutants, and that may not be the case.

\

 

They believe all sorts of crap, so I don't give a damn what they believe as quacks and supporters of quackery.

 

I sense something mystical...like a theory becoming a firm belief...but is there anything solid...any evidence?

 

Only effects, but all sorts of things are accepted on the basis of effects.

 

No physical apparatus or sense can detect higher planes because their subatomic particles nutate at different rates not en rapport with each other, and that cannot be changed to give direct evidence.

 

This is the nature of the universe we are talking about.

 

These idiots think we can change the universe if they want evidence that's impossible to provide.

 

Tell them to ask God for evidence.

 

What the hell do I care what they think anyway?

 

Who is the originator/author of this?

 

It's part of the Brotherhoods' Cosmology, so there are and have been lots of people who've spoken and written on it.

 

I think Richard Kieninger was the most lucid and succinct authority, though.

 

Try THE ULTIMATE FRONTIER, or ask H. John Zitko.

 

Shakespeare was an Hermetic Initiate, and Galileo was an Initiate in legitimate Theosophy from the Athenian School of the Brahmic Brotherhood before it disappeared in the persecutions of alchemy.

 

(Don't make the mistake from that fact of thinking that the Theosophical Society of Blavatsky and Annie Bessant is legitimate because it isn't.)

 

Thomas Paine, Benj. Franklin, Geo. Clymer, Geo. Washington, the Marqui de Lafeyette, Lincoln, Geo. Lippard, Wm. Lloyd Garrison, Paracelsus, Hahnemann and many others were students in the legitimate mystery schools of the Rosicrucian Brotherhood.

 

(Incidentally, Rosicrucian is not found in the schools' names, but it is found in their legal documents establishing authority and affiliations.)

 

Burkes Hamner [sic] was the Scribe of the Essene Brotherhood.

 

Hamid Bey was the Scribe of the Coptic Brotherhood.

 

John Richardson was the Scribe of the Brahmic Brotherhood through The Great School of Natural Science.

 

Moses was a High Adept in the Hermetic Brotherhood.

 

Issaiah and Zoroaster were Adepts in the Essene Brotherhood.

 

All of the authors of the Bible save Paul were Initiates.

 

Buddha, Confuscius and Lao Tzu were all High Adepts in the Brotherhoods.

 

Adept means 6th thru 9th Degree Initiates, Egos who are able to advance without being incarnate; High Adept means 10th thru 11th Degrees, Egos who incarnate just before attaining human perfection who are invariably incarnate in order to immortalize a body for later use when needed.

 

(That will likely only have meaning when one realizes that First-Degree Initiation has seven inviolate requirements, one of which is controlled clairvoyance and the brain state of mystic awareness (i.e., the ability to incorporate Egoic memories from previous lifetimes into brain consciouisness), and that they have managed only about 1% (sic) of the business of human perfection completed through 12 Degrees of legitimate Initiation, which has nothing to do with physical organizations.)

 

The Toltecs and Mayans as well as kinsmen in S. America also knew these things.

 

Try the last paper in OBSERVATIONS IV by R. Kieninger for a mouthful on the scientific explanations of the planes.

 

Also ask Tim Wilhelm of The Stelle Group that question.

 

Whatever happens, it occurs at that level since they are ultramolecular drugs.

 

The physical body takes shape according to the etheric pattern, so we see cures occuring like magic according to absolutes called natural laws because these are field effects of the whole organism because the whole etheric pattern is corrected.

 

Do dat mak sens?

 

 

Nope.

 

That's unfortunate, for I thought I said that rather well.

[BTox]

Hahnemannian444 said in post #101 :

A bit more on that before the sky falls on me about it.

 

Two facts is all I'll persue here about it.

 

First, they are subAvogadrean drugs that we prefer to call ultramolecular medicines and that I favor calling etheric drugs.

 

Here we go again. You two have found yet another science forum to attempt to push this nonsense of homeopathy. These "remedies" are not drugs at all, they are benign placebos of either lactose or water/ethanol.

 

Hahnemannian444 said in post #101 :

I think it is just a matter of time till we prove that homeopathic pharmacology involves etheric particles, prove meaning in the same way that lots of tacitly accepted constructs in chemistry and physics remain unprovable except by their effects.

 

Then we will have another major paradigm shift in chemistry and physics that will usher in the future of sciences in exactly the way that Nicola Tesla predicted was inevitable with technologies underlain with Ether Theory.

 

It would be prudent to attempt to prove homeopathy works at all, as to date all well-controlled clinical trials demonstrate nothing but a placebo effect, as agrees perfectly with the current, proven laws of chemistry and physics.

[JaKiri]

Hahnemannian444 said in post #125 :

Every physical particle of matter has an etheric counterpart, and that collective of etheric particles constitute an etheric pattern.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

 

No.

[JaKiri]

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Another example arises from a question: where are all the neutrinos since they have a half-life near infinity?

 

They're bloody everywhere. They are. Yes. We detect them.

 

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Virtual particles and the vacuum energy of empty space are the two most visible examples.

 

Are you going to tell me that these are not etheric particles and energy?

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Yes.

 

Ye well you get the idea.

[JaKiri]

Oh, and what meaning of etheric are you using? The usual one (ie the one that's right) means 'of the ether', but that doesn't seem to fit in your posts.

[Giles]

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Everything has an etheric counterpart because every subatomic particle of matter and every quantum particle of electromagnetic radiation also exists as an etheric particle.

Actually that only makes quark matter, electrons and photons 'etheric', which isn't everything. And it desn't explain what you mean by etheric. Developing a medical model which includes physics not in the standard model is probably a bad idea. Finally, this doesn't actually define etheric.

 

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Our medicines are ultramolecular and therefore etheric, which means they do something to the etheric pattern.

While that would follow from your previous post, i don't see what being "ultramolecular" (i assume this means on a molecular scale or larger) has to do with it.

 

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Making it once again integral would be a logical general assumption....And I don't know why you want to make this medicinal activity a mechanism since it would be an etheric mechanism forever indecernible to physical apparatus and senses.

How can you claim it is undetectable if it has a detectable effect? If it interacts with RNA, for example, we could measure it by looking for non-standard results in gel-electrophoresis.

 

If it produces effects no different from currently characterised behaviour, which is explained by current physical theory, then you notion of ether is excluded from the model by occam's razor, and excluded more generally from any empirical system.

 

Hahnemannian444 said in post #128 :

Yeah, but we live in a time that they have all but admitted to it.

 

They have over 20 synonyms and major manifestations of it now.

 

For instance, of the latter we have cosmic microwave background radiation.

 

Tell me what they're talking about since cosmic rays are already particles and waves.

...

What are they talking about if not the Etheric Plane?

 

Our drugs force the issue too, so they're going to have to accept the Ether; so it's their problem, not ours.

 

Somebody told them the Ether doesn't exist, but who told them to stop thinking?

Those are all seperate, empirically defined phenomena or terms in mathetical equations describing them , which may not be percepitible to humans in the same way as a brick or its mass, but have the same kind of existence.

 

Everything else you said I can't follow because i'm a biologist not a... whatever you call youself.

[Chaos Theory]

The physical body takes shape according to the etheric pattern, so we see cures occuring like magic according to absolutes called natural laws because these are field effects of the whole organism because the whole etheric pattern is corrected

 

 

:lame:

 

There is not etheric pattern. I have never heard of real miracle cures. DNA does not follow a path, it just gets uncoded. Genes are genes, they can't follow any pattern.

[blike]

tis about right time to move this thread to its final home...

[Glider]

Yep...though I think you're gonna need some help carrying it.

[Chaos Theory]

Hahnemann is a quack, far as I can see he's also ancient (1755-1843), so what the heck does he know? NOTHING. He was worried about blood letting and such, but as far as modern medicine goes, that would be like trying to explain the movie ET to the guy.

 

Hahnemann said that doctors were giving their patients too much medicine. He believed that tiny amounts of drugs should be diluted in water before being given to a patient

 

He is soooo ignorant he doesn't understand the harm in diluting medication. If I did that with my wellbutrin, then it would be freakin useless.

 

People respond to quacks now for the same reason that they always have; as P. T. Barnum said "There's a sucker born every minute." When a person is sick and has no alternative, he will jump at the first thing that looks like it might work (laetrile, cabbage soup, gallons of juice a day). The use of quack drugs for serious diseases appears to be on the wane, but they are as popular as ever for "lifestyle" issues.

 

http://dpsinfo.com/wb/medhistory.html

 

 

Hahnemann himself realized that there is virtually no chance that even one molecule of original substance would remain after extreme dilutions. But he believed that the vigorous shaking or pulverizing with each step of dilution leaves behind a "spirit-like" essence -- "no longer perceptible to the senses" -- which cures by reviving the body's "vital force."

 

:lame:

 

http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/homeo.html

[Peter Dunn]

Can homeopathic SURGEONS perform heart by pass operations?

 

I think not.

 

(S)nuff said.

[Erador]

fascinating nonetheless

 

and i do think that there should be more research if not to support, than to prove wrong...

[atinymonkey]

I guess you mean to research it's effectiveness. It's not really research if your setting out to prove something wrong, more of a witchhunt.

[Chaos Theory]

Gimme a break. Getting rid of people lying and selling junk is not a witch hunt. It's simply like a public service. Cops take out liars all the time-you can't sell me a TV and tell me it's a microwave. You can't sell me a DVD player and then just give me a box with a rock in it.

 

Buyer beware is fair enough, but we should also be able to take them down when we found we've been taken. It's only fair. We bought the stuff under false pretenses (well I haven't, but I could get suckered).