According to the MSDS,Is it safe to use this silicone grease in contact with potable water?

[Alan1]

Hi.

Hi.

According to the attached MSDS of a specific silicone grease

(I deleted,on purpose,The brand name of it),

Is it safe to use this silicone grease on o-rings,while it is in contact with potable water?

This specific silicone grease is used,among other things,for lubricate diving equipments(o-rings,zippers etc.).

According to the MSDS it contains:Polydimethylsiloxane: 90% (CAS:63148-62-9) Silica: 10% (CAS:7631-86-9).

Those materials are,as i read,are considered to be safe in contact with potable water.

The MSDS says that the silicone is physiologically compatible and it neither mutagenic, cancerogenic nor teratogenic.

A toxicity to fish is improbable and when Oral swallowing on large amount,it may cause uncomfortable feeling in digestion
According to those information,can i conclude that it is safe to apply this silicone grease on O-RING inside the faucets

where it will be in contact with potable water?

Thanks.

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Alan1

[exchemist]

12 minutes ago, Alan1 said:

Hi.

Hi.

According to the attached MSDS of a specific silicone grease

(I deleted,on purpose,The brand name of it),

Is it safe to use this silicone grease on o-rings,while it is in contact with potable water?

This specific silicone grease is used,among other things,for lubricate diving equipments(o-rings,zippers etc.).

According to the MSDS it contains:Polydimethylsiloxane: 90% (CAS:63148-62-9) Silica: 10% (CAS:7631-86-9).

Those materials are,as i read,are considered to be safe in contact with potable water.

The MSDS says that the silicone is physiologically compatible and it neither mutagenic, cancerogenic nor teratogenic.

A toxicity to fish is improbable and when Oral swallowing on large amount,it may cause uncomfortable feeling in digestion
According to those information,can i conclude that it is safe to apply this silicone grease on O-RING inside the faucets

where it will be in contact with potable water?

Thanks.

 

Yes I'm sure it will be fine. It is biologically pretty inert, as the MSDS shows, and if it's only on the O rings the quantity will be minute. Also it's not water soluble so should not come off into the water in any case. 

[studiot]

Safe, yes but should you be using grease on a sealing O ring ?

A dash of washing up liquid will help it on, and then wash awat leaving no interfering residue.

O rings are designed to seal under the pressure of the liquid or gas.

[StringJunky]

PDMS's safety profile is pretty good. It was used as a breast implant substrate iirc. I use it as a water proofer on my boots. 

[iNow]

Silicone grease is so commonly used with potable water applications that it’s generally known as plumbers grease. It helps the o-ring to better slide into the space providing a more robust seal without pinching. I almost never install new fittings without it. It’s good for the gaskets and connection points to nozzles and sprinklers in outdoor water hoses, as well. 

[Alan1]

Thanks for all the responses.

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

Yes I'm sure it will be fine. It is biologically pretty inert, as the MSDS shows, and if it's only on the O rings the quantity will be minute. Also it's not water soluble so should not come off into the water in any case. 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

PDMS's safety profile is pretty good. It was used as a breast implant substrate iirc. I use it as a water proofer on my boots. 

1 hour ago, iNow said:

Silicone grease is so commonly used with potable water applications that it’s generally known as plumbers grease. It helps the o-ring to better slide into the space providing a more robust seal without pinching. I almost never install new fittings without it. It’s good for the gaskets and connection points to nozzles and sprinklers in outdoor water hoses, as well. 

This specific silicone grease,as i mention above,is not sold as a plumber grease,it is sold as lubrication(among others)of diving equipments(o-rings,zippers etc.)

and when i looked into the MSDS,it seemed to me as it is okay to use

on faucet O-RINGS that are in contact with potable water.

But as i didn't see any kind of approval standard on the package or in the MSDS ,i thought that i better verify this with you.

My assumption was that if the item doesn't have a label that indicates that it is approved for use with potable water,it doesn't necessary mean,that it is not safe to use with potable water and the MSDS information is what matters,as the company maybe didn't add an approval standard due to other reasons(like economy reason etc.),even that it actually safe to use with potable water,

Am i right?

(Though the approval standard would have saved 

all the hassle of checking and searching)

2 hours ago, studiot said:

Safe, yes but should you be using grease on a sealing O ring ?

A dash of washing up liquid will help it on, and then wash awat leaving no interfering residue.

O rings are designed to seal under the pressure of the liquid or gas.

Yes,the washing liquid will help it on and it won't leave not residue,but

as much as i know:

The addition of a lubricant can extend the operating life of the O-ring by creating a barrier film over its surface. This barrier film can also help reduce leakage by filling the asperities between the metal surface and the O-ring seal.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2023 by Alan1

[StringJunky]

7 minutes ago, Alan1 said:

Thanks for all the responses.

This specific silicone grease,as i mention above,is not sold as a plumber grease,it is sold as lubrication(among others)of diving equipments(o-rings,zippers etc.)

and when i looked into the MSDS,it seemed to me as it is okay to use

on faucet O-RINGS that are in contact with potable water.

But as i didn't see any kind of approval standard on the package or in the MSDS ,i thought that i better verify this with you.

My assumption was that if the item doesn't have a label that indicates that it is approved for use with potable water,it doesn't necessary mean,that it is not safe to use with potable water and the MSDS information is what matters,as the company maybe didn't add an approval standard due to other reasons(like economy reason etc.),even that it actually safe to use with potable water,

Am i right?

Yes,the washing liquid will help it on and it won't leave not residue,but

as much as i know:

The addition of a lubricant can extend the operating life of the O-ring by creating a barrier film over its surface. This barrier film can also help reduce leakage by filling the asperities between the metal surface and the O-ring seal.

 

 

 

 

 

The stuff I have is bottled for gym equipment use.

[iNow]

I propose that the stress you seem to feel about this situation is far more detrimental to your health than anything your body might ingest over the course of a few weeks from the silicone grease being discussed herein. 

[Alan1]

On 12/24/2023 at 7:16 PM, iNow said:

I propose that the stress you seem to feel about this situation is far more detrimental to your health than anything your body might ingest over the course of a few weeks from the silicone grease being discussed herein. 

No,no stress at all,even not a bit.

It is just a question to learn the issue.

So,as in my case,can i conclude that if a specific silicone grease

don't have approval standard for contact with potable water,it doesn't

necessary mean that it is not safe to use it for that purpose,Am i right?

On 12/24/2023 at 5:43 PM, StringJunky said:

The stuff I have is bottled for gym equipment use.

Does it mean that all the silicone greases out there,that the primary use

of them is not intended as a plumber grease,can be used

with potable water?

couldn't it be that some of them may contain

impurities(in the Polydimethylsiloxane/silica)which may not

safe to use with potable water?(those without the approval standard).

 

[StringJunky]

@Alan1 Look for medical grade. It's more expensive, but if you want the most refined, that source will be it.

NSF 61/ANSI 61 silicone grease is rated for potable systems.

Edited December 26, 2023 by StringJunky

[exchemist]

47 minutes ago, Alan1 said:

No,no stress at all,even not a bit.

It is just a question to learn the issue.

So,as in my case,can i conclude that if a specific silicone grease

don't have approval standard for contact with potable water,it doesn't

necessary mean that it is not safe to use it for that purpose,Am i right?

Does it mean that all the silicone greases out there,that the primary use

of them is not intended as a plumber grease,can be used

with potable water?

couldn't it be that some of them may contain

impurities(in the Polydimethylsiloxane/silica)which may not

safe to use with potable water?(those without the approval standard).

 

A quick web search reveals there is a UK body called WRAS: https://www.wrasapprovals.co.uk  that actually approves materials for use in potable water applications. They appear to have approved one or more silicone greases. 

If you are not in the UK, I have no doubt there will be equivalent bodies in your country.

 

[Alan1]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

@Alan1 Look for medical grade. It's more expensive, but if you want the most refined, that source will be it.

NSF 61/ANSI 61 silicone grease is rated for potable systems.

 

30 minutes ago, exchemist said:

A quick web search reveals there is a UK body called WRAS: https://www.wrasapprovals.co.uk  that actually approves materials for use in potable water applications. They appear to have approved one or more silicone greases. 

If you are not in the UK, I have no doubt there will be equivalent bodies in your country.

 

Thanks for your replies,but it seems that you miss my point.

I am familiar with the approval standards(NSF61/WRAS/DVGW etc.)that are related with potable water.

I am not looking for a special silicone grease with an approval standard,

as i have already have one,it is made to use in potable water's faucet and it is rated with NSF61 approval standard,but it is very small.

As i have also some other silicone greases(larger size)that are not rated for potable systems,my question was refer to them.

The MSDS that i attached before was one of them,it doesn't have an approved standard for potable system,but according to the MSDS,

it looks like it safe to use it for that application and you all agree with that.

So my question was,according to the specific silicone grease and its MSDS:

If the item doesn't have approval standard for potable water systems,Can i conclude that it doesn't necessary mean,that the grease is not safe to use with potable water system and the MSDS information is what matters?

Or if it doesn't have an approval standard for potable water systems,it

absolutely not safe to use it in those application(potable water faucet's o-ring,for example)?

 

[StringJunky]

16 minutes ago, Alan1 said:

 

Thanks for your replies,but it seems that you miss my point.

I am familiar with the approval standards(NSF61/WRAS/DVGW etc.)that are related with potable water.

I am not looking for a special silicone grease with an approval standard,

as i have already have one,it is made to use in potable water's faucet and it is rated with NSF61 approval standard,but it is very small.

As i have also some other silicone greases(larger size)that are not rated for potable systems,my question was refer to them.

The MSDS that i attached before was one of them,it doesn't have an approved standard for potable system,but according to the MSDS,

it looks like it safe to use it for that application and you all agree with that.

So my question was,according to the specific silicone grease and its MSDS:

If the item doesn't have approval standard for potable water systems,Can i conclude that it doesn't necessary mean,that the grease is not safe to use with potable water system and the MSDS information is what matters?

Or if it doesn't have an approval standard for potable water systems,it

absolutely not safe to use it in those application(potable water faucet's o-ring,for example)?

 

It doesn't mean it's not safe, but why not use a source that is certified to NSF61, if you are motivated enough to post the question, why live in doubt by using an unknown?

Edited December 26, 2023 by StringJunky

[studiot]

It is quite difficult to compose a good opening post, to strike the right balance between not including enough information and including too much, whilst yet ensuring that all the significan stuff is there.

 

So is this a casual amateur enquiry, perhaps only a one off,  or is it by way of trade of large scale use over a long term period ?

Silicone lubricant comes in various formats. Various consistencies of tubs, tubes,  and sprays.

Any manufacturer wanting specific use certification has to pay a significant cost to obtain that certification.
So they will weigh up those costs agains likely sales for that use.
They will also probably have a discalimer to the effect that as they do not control the conditions of use or application they can only take responsibility for that certified.

Safety sheets, are meant for the safety of the user applying the substance, not necessarily a person down the line.

My personal issue with grease is that in a plumber's situation there is considerable danger of the grease becoming contaminated with other material, in particular gritty material.
This gritty material may not matter in a thread locking situation, but could destroy the sealing capacity of an O ring.

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, Alan1 said:

 

Thanks for your replies,but it seems that you miss my point.

I am familiar with the approval standards(NSF61/WRAS/DVGW etc.)that are related with potable water.

I am not looking for a special silicone grease with an approval standard,

as i have already have one,it is made to use in potable water's faucet and it is rated with NSF61 approval standard,but it is very small.

As i have also some other silicone greases(larger size)that are not rated for potable systems,my question was refer to them.

The MSDS that i attached before was one of them,it doesn't have an approved standard for potable system,but according to the MSDS,

it looks like it safe to use it for that application and you all agree with that.

So my question was,according to the specific silicone grease and its MSDS:

If the item doesn't have approval standard for potable water systems,Can i conclude that it doesn't necessary mean,that the grease is not safe to use with potable water system and the MSDS information is what matters?

Or if it doesn't have an approval standard for potable water systems,it

absolutely not safe to use it in those application(potable water faucet's o-ring,for example)?

 

If the product data does not mention approval for potable water applications, all that means is that it may not have been submitted for approval. It does not mean it is unsuitable, just that the relevant body may not have considered it for approval.

The distinction between “suitable for” an application and “approved for” an application is one I remember well from my career in the lubricants industry. It can have implications for such legal things as warranties in some cases, but if that is not at issue it may not matter.
 

From what your respondents can see from the MSDS, and from what we know of the chemistry and your intended application, we can see no appreciable risk.

[iNow]

5 hours ago, Alan1 said:

No,no stress at all,even not a bit.

I understand, but please take note that reading your replies suggests otherwise. 

[Alan1]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

if the product data does not mention approval for potable water applications, all that means is that it may not have been submitted for approval. It does not mean it is unsuitable, just that the relevant body may not have considered it for approval.

The distinction between “suitable for” an application and “approved for” an application is one I remember well from my career in the lubricants industry. It can have implications for such legal things as warranties in some cases, but if that is not at issue it may not matter.
 

From what your respondents can see from the MSDS, and from what we know of the chemistry and your intended application, we can see no appreciable risk.

3 hours ago, studiot said:

Any manufacturer wanting specific use certification has to pay a significant cost to obtain that certification.
So they will weigh up those costs agains likely sales for that use.
They will also probably have a discalimer to the effect that as they do not control the conditions of use or application they can only take responsibility for that certified.

Thanks for your answers.Those two answers were well explained in related to my question and cleared my doubt.

So to sum and verify the issue,

can i refer to every silicone grease as safe to be used in contact with potable water,even if i don't see any approval standard or it may be more accurate to say that most of the silicone greases are safe for that application but NOT ALL the silicone greases.So i need always to check further(msds etc.)if i don't see any approval standard?

4 hours ago, StringJunky said:

It doesn't mean it's not safe, but why not use a source that is certified to NSF61, if you are motivated enough to post the question, why live in doubt by using an unknown?

Of course that the easy way is to use a silicone grease with NSF61,but the reason for asking questions and consulting with experts is to learn and add knowledge,so you will know how to solve things later and don't make mistakes.In regards to this specific grease,it is not unknown silicone grease,it is silicone grease that made,primary,for diving equipments(o-ring,zippers etc.)and it has an MSDS,so it is not unknown. 

[exchemist]

52 minutes ago, Alan1 said:

Thanks for your answers.Those two answers were well explained in related to my question and cleared my doubt.

So to sum and verify the issue,

can i refer to every silicone grease as safe to be used in contact with potable water,even if i don't see any approval standard or it may be more accurate to say that most of the silicone greases are safe for that application but NOT ALL the silicone greases.So i need always to check further(msds etc.)if i don't see any approval standard?

Of course that the easy way is to use a silicone grease with NSF61,but the reason for asking questions and consulting with experts is to learn and add knowledge,so you will know how to solve things later and don't make mistakes.In regards to this specific grease,it is not unknown silicone grease,it is silicone grease that made,primary,for diving equipments(o-ring,zippers etc.)and it has an MSDS,so it is not unknown. 

The opinion of the people here is that you can safely use the specific grease for which you provided an MSDS, for the purpose that you indicated. 

Period. 

[Alan1]

On 12/26/2023 at 8:02 PM, exchemist said:

The opinion of the people here is that you can safely use the specific grease for which you provided an MSDS, for the purpose that you indicated. 

Period. 

Exchemist,when you end your post with"...Period.",

i felt like you are shutting a door on my face,which is not polite.

I admit that my main question in the title of the post had already answered and explained very good.I thank you all for your great help,but later,it lead me to wondered,whether all my other silicone greases can actually be safe in contact with potable water(i have several silicone greases,for different tasks,that i bought during the years)and that last question was to sum up and close the issue.

You could say that this question(the one in my last post)can't be answered in an open forum due to .......,but please,don't shut the door on my face.

Anyway,thanks again for your help.😊

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Alan1

[iNow]

You asked if the answers here could be applied to any and all silicone grease products you ever encounter anywhere. The answer was, no. The answers here apply ONLY the product you asked about. Period. Don’t extrapolate. 

If you can’t stand that level of clarity and precision and see it as a rudely slammed door, then you may be too sensitive to be a successful member here and should instead (as I mentioned earlier already) consider relaxing a bit. You seem to be wound pretty tightly. 

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, Alan1 said:

Exchemist,when you end your post with"...Period.",

i felt like you are shutting a door on my face,which is not polite.

I admit that my main question in the title of the post had already answered and explained very good.I thank you all for your great help,but later,it lead me to wondered,whether all my other silicone greases can actually be safe in contact with potable water(i have several silicone greases,for different tasks,that i bought during the years)and that last question was to sum up and close the issue.

You could say that this question(the one in my last post)can't be answered in an open forum due to .......,but please,don't shut the door on my face.

Anyway,thanks again for your help.😊

 

 

 

Very well. It would be imprudent to extend the advice given, on the basis of a singe substance with MSDS provided, to a blanket statement for an entire category on which we do not have the details. We cannot know what some suppliers may add to their silicone greases, or fail to remove from them. You should be able to appreciate that, I hope. 

[studiot]

27 minutes ago, exchemist said:

We cannot know what some suppliers may add to their silicone greases, or fail to remove from them.

Exactly.

 

Personally I am uncomfortable with the idea that the stated grease is 10% 'silica' , an known carcinogen.

 

 

[StringJunky]

50 minutes ago, studiot said:

Exactly.

 

Personally I am uncomfortable with the idea that the stated grease is 10% 'silica' , an known carcinogen.

 

 

Only in the dust state, surely? Industrial exposure of the airborne particulates is harmful to lungs. Inside the body's system, it's used for several purposes by it.

[studiot]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Only in the dust state, surely? Industrial exposure of the airborne particulates is harmful to lungs. Inside the body's system, it's used for several purposes by it.

They used to add amyl meta cresol or hexachlorophene to toothpaste once upon a time, until it was banned.

 

What is the form of this 'silica'  it doesn't say.

 

However I do take your point that it seems to be used in lots of other thing meant for ingestion.

[Alan1]

Okay,i understand.

Thanks again for all the help😊