What would be a general definition for intelligence and cognition?

[ALine]

What would be a formal definition of intelligence/cognition. Which that can be expressed formally and mathematically?

One which could be ran according to unique algorithms/computation/mathematical methods.

[iNow]

What type of intelligence?

 

[ALine]

4 hours ago, iNow said:

What type of intelligence?

 

I mean like a formal definition of intelligence/cognition. One where it can be expressed by a computer.

[iNow]

I’m sorry. I have no idea what you’re talking about, and I believe the core explanatory reason is because neither do you. 

[dimreepr]

7 hours ago, ALine said:

I mean like a formal definition of intelligence/cognition. One where it can be expressed by a computer.

The closest I can come to a formal definition is a 'joke', one form of intelligence makes a joke for another form of intelligence to laugh, if they don't laugh they're not cognisant of the intention, a computer won't ever laugh, however intelligent we make them.

[Ghideon]

Your question is complex and contains unresolved issues and active research.

On 5/15/2024 at 9:16 PM, ALine said:

What would be a formal definition of intelligence/cognition.

That is ar far as I know an unresolved question; the scientific community does not have a single, universally accepted formal definition of intelligence.

On 5/15/2024 at 9:16 PM, ALine said:

Which that can be expressed formally and mathematically?

Then we have to assume that intelligence* and cognition can be expressed mathematically in a way that is useful. There are attempts in for instance Computational Models of Intelligence and I am not aware of any consensus. You may want to look for work that uses Kolmogorov complexity and Markov blankets (I do not have any sources; tried and failed to locate an article I read some time ago)

On 5/15/2024 at 9:16 PM, ALine said:

One which could be ran according to unique algorithms/computation/mathematical methods.

That assumes that Intelligence can be expressed in a model of computation. As far as I know the debate about whether all aspects of what we consider "intelligence" can be fully captured and replicated by computational systems is not settled. 

Examples to illustrate the complexity: You might be able to mathematically define some type of intelligence that performs well on a typical IQ test**. That does not mean the same mathematical definition is applicable to the intelligence required to :
-construct new IQ tests
-evaluate results of IQ tests
-Ride a bicycle to the facilities providing the IQ test.
-decide if it is appropriate to use an IQ test in a certain context; moral or ethical. 
(These examples are inspired by iNow's answer)

 

*) Or intelligences, as @iNow correctly points out.
**) such as those used by Mensa or other organisations 

[ALine]

3 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

That assumes that Intelligence can be expressed in a model of computation.

I am assuming that it can be.

4 minutes ago, Ghideon said:

Then we have to assume that intelligence* and cognition can be expressed mathematically in a way that is useful. There are attempts in for instance Computational Models of Intelligence and I am not aware of any consensus. You may want to look for work that uses Kolmogorov complexity and Markov blankets (I do not have any sources; tried and failed to locate an article I read some time ago)

Thank you, looking into it now

[dimreepr]

14 hours ago, ALine said:

I am assuming that it can be.

Assuming anything is the wrong place to start, if you want the truth. 

What would be the benefit of a computational model?

For instance, would the joke be funnier?

The computer say's "the joke is n% funnier, when humans listen to it in a group".

What does that tell you about the joke?

[Harrot]

On 5/16/2024 at 10:45 PM, Ghideon said:

Your question is complex and contains unresolved issues and active research.

That is ar far as I know an unresolved question; the scientific community does not have a single, universally accepted formal definition of intelligence.

Every unresolved question when explored by unsuccesfull researchers seem to be complex.

You know you have the solution when everything become clear.

 

Here, you have to understand where the word "Intelligence" come from.

When a human walk on some others feet, most of them say something that can be interpreted like  : "I feel pain".

This happens for anyone in every civilisation.

So, "ouch" , "aie", "aoua" or any word you like for it, refer to the pain you endure in some situation.

But what is pain ???

Yeah... you begin to understand why i talk about that...

"Pain is of course  complex and contains unresolved issues and activ research."

The really funny thing is : We have a word handy, but nobody is really able to define it , so why did we even invent it ???

 

What the heck ?!! Is it a joke ? (that was my first tought when i ran into this contradiction.)

But if you try to understand further, you discover that there are many other words (the problemn is not only for intelligence), related to distinct concepts that lead to never ending discussions

And this happens since man can discuss about that (philosopher like to discuss a lot).

 

So, trying to find out what those concepts have in common reveal the rason why .. YOU CAN NOT GIVE A MATHEMATICAL EXPRESSION OF INTELLIGENCE.

Because intelligence, belong to the category of words that reflect the SENSATION, like pain, mightiness, liberty, beauty, etc.

And when you discuss these notions, nobody can ever demonstrate you that he has the right definition.

There is no formal definition for a SENSATION.

INTELLIGENCE refer to some kind of FEELING that human people have (ordinary) in common, but at least they have a feeling that is specific to it, and that distinguish it from the feeling they have when they feel beauty, per example.

 

So, when you are facing something, you can FEEL that it is INTELLIGENT without making any calculation or reasoning.

Some other peoples can feel it too, ... or not, dépending on their own feeling, that it is intelligent or not.

Now, why do you have the feeling that something is "intelligent" ?

This is the real question that need to be answered, and to be clear, this is relativ to oneself.

So, no one is intelligent by himself, he is considered intelligent using arbitrary convention that other peoples have created in common... because they have similar feeling about that.

Probably the things only some of us can do and most can not, give use the feeling that the one that can do it is intelligent.

This work also when we say that someone is strong i supppose.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 3 by Harrot
spelling error

[Ghideon]

On 10/3/2024 at 5:49 PM, Harrot said:

Every unresolved question when explored by unsuccesfull researchers seem to be complex.

Not true. The complexity of a problem doesn't stem from failure. Successful and unsuccessful researchers alike can appreciate that some problems are inherently complex due to gaps in current knowledge, not because of their inability to resolve them. Note that "complex" is not the same as "complicated"

(edit: Noting that the member is banned; I will not spend time to sort out their misconceptions.)

Edited October 11 by Ghideon