Why do certain social situations seem embarrassing?

[Scientific_potato]

Recently i found out that i have ASD (highly functioning)
For most of my life i haven't been able to experience embarrassment and thought that if i was able to live and survive without embarrassment for so long then why does it exist at all?
Is it a bug? is it a feature? Maybe its beneficial to some and not others? or maybe it was beneficial back when we were drawing paintings on the inside of caves.
Personally i think its a pretty much useless feeling, i like being able to use pure logic to make decisions than feel like i shouldnt because "Nooo you cant wear that, everyone will make fun of you!" or "No, not that color; thats for girls!" or "Nooo, you've gotta use the boy deodorant because you're a BOyie". i feel that people shouldnt feel embarrassed for things like this.
Idk, any input would be greatly appreciated!
 

[Phi for All]

I've found that I'm not best judge when it comes to self-assessment. I make mistakes in social contexts if I'm not looking for outside input. My own reasoning can only go so far since it's tightly tied to my knowledge. It's embarrassing to me when I realize I've made a mistake that could have been easily prevented by asking others. So in this context, embarrassment helps me stay humble about what I know. There's always more to learn. 

Are you saying you use formal logic to make decisions? I've seen many philosophers use formal logic to make a completely false statement that's still valid. Formal logic is NOT an empirical study. 

Most of your examples seem like cultural pressure, and the need to "fit in" with our tribe is stronger in some than others. What we wear is often signalling to others something about us, and misreading those signals can embarrass us into either better focus or figuring out personal solutions. Sometimes that personal solution is "I don't care if people make fun of this shirt, I love it!"

And there are arguably situations where one should be embarrassed by their actions. It's one thing to ignore whether you're using a feminine or masculine deodorant, and quite another to skip the deodorant altogether (or much worse, douse yourself in cheap cologne/perfume) in a situation where other people have to put up with your mistake. 

Embarrassment is normally something felt in degrees. The bigger the offense, the more embarrassed you should feel about it. I wouldn't say it's a useless feeling, but I do think it's probably being abused by some, used to manipulate us by others, and in general something you should avoid by focusing less on the embarrassment and more on whether this is something you need to fix or not. 

[Scientific_potato]

11 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I've found that I'm not best judge when it comes to self-assessment. I make mistakes in social contexts if I'm not looking for outside input. My own reasoning can only go so far since it's tightly tied to my knowledge. It's embarrassing to me when I realize I've made a mistake that could have been easily prevented by asking others. So in this context, embarrassment helps me stay humble about what I know. There's always more to learn. 

Are you saying you use formal logic to make decisions? I've seen many philosophers use formal logic to make a completely false statement that's still valid. Formal logic is NOT an empirical study. 

Most of your examples seem like cultural pressure, and the need to "fit in" with our tribe is stronger in some than others. What we wear is often signalling to others something about us, and misreading those signals can embarrass us into either better focus or figuring out personal solutions. Sometimes that personal solution is "I don't care if people make fun of this shirt, I love it!"

And there are arguably situations where one should be embarrassed by their actions. It's one thing to ignore whether you're using a feminine or masculine deodorant, and quite another to skip the deodorant altogether (or much worse, douse yourself in cheap cologne/perfume) in a situation where other people have to put up with your mistake. 

Embarrassment is normally something felt in degrees. The bigger the offense, the more embarrassed you should feel about it. I wouldn't say it's a useless feeling, but I do think it's probably being abused by some, used to manipulate us by others, and in general something you should avoid by focusing less on the embarrassment and more on whether this is something you need to fix or not. 

you've got a really good point here, maybe its not embarrassment in general which i think is silly but the thought of people judging other people because of things they wear, certain aspects of who they are, what they do for fun, etc?
Sortarelatedsidenote: i wear all black polyester clothes with a leather jacket and my parents think its strange and say i look stupid because of it. "thats the strangest biker i've seen" suggesting that i should wear jeans and a cotton shirt. really makes me annoyed.
 

[TheVat]

 

27 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Sometimes that personal solution is "I don't care if people make fun of this shirt, I love it!"

I will confess that I sometimes wear pants that say, f  you, I just want to be comfortable.  I have tried to advance the position that my running pants are more stylish than mere sweat pants but it's been suggested they are really just fancy sweat pants with pockets.  My position is that running pants with pockets are:

A.  Pants.  Suitable for most public venues and occasions.

B.  Warm.  This is important in a cold windy climate.

C.  Have a flexibility and ability to stay up (elastic waist plus drawstring*) that makes them ideal for most physical tasks.

So this approach to public pants display combines logic and empiricism in a beautiful synergy, while also serving as a superficial snobby twit detector.  

That said, embarassment is a useful thing for social creatures when it causes us to regret transgressions like dishonesty or foolish boasting.  

 

* belts are digital, drawstrings are analog, and analog + waists = freedom!

8 minutes ago, Scientific_potato said:

Sortarelatedsidenote: i wear all black polyester clothes with a leather jacket and my parents think its strange and say i look stupid because of it.

Sounds quite stylish.  My son often wears such attire, and looks splendid in it.  Some people really rock black, and not just classical musicians.

Though July in the American Midwest, where he lives, tends to concentrate the mind on somewhat cooler clothing choices.

 

[Phi for All]

29 minutes ago, Scientific_potato said:

you've got a really good point here, maybe its not embarrassment in general which i think is silly but the thought of people judging other people because of things they wear, certain aspects of who they are, what they do for fun, etc?

There's a BUNCH of people these days who believe in a vertical morality, where they position others on a scale of right/wrong with themselves as judge, using a hodge-podge of religious teachings and confirmation biases to determine whether they're worse or better than others. The best of them only judge your worst behaviors, but too many cast a broader net, trying to put you below them on the morality scale because of the music you listen to, or the way your hair looks, or the money they think you don't have.

1 hour ago, Scientific_potato said:

i wear all black polyester clothes with a leather jacket and my parents think its strange and say i look stupid because of it. "thats the strangest biker i've seen" suggesting that i should wear jeans and a cotton shirt. really makes me annoyed.

Humans brains naturally look for patterns. They give us conventions we use to assess situations in our lives, based on typical experiences. Historically, noticing things that diverged from typical patterns has saved lives and enriched many individuals. "A critical eye" is often applauded in many societies, and may embolden your parents to "fix" your broken biker look. Most parents secret unreasonable wish is that their kids not get picked on for any reason, that they fit in, and get along with everyone.

And then some folks take it to extremes. They don't think of things as typical or divergent, they think of them as right or wrong. I think these folks need to realize how worthless and destructive this kind of judgement is. I had a friend once who wore wildly colorful clothes, and if anyone called him out for it, he just said, "If I look just like you, why do we need you?" Loved that guy.

 

[Peterkin]

5 hours ago, Scientific_potato said:

Is it a bug? is it a feature? Maybe its beneficial to some and not others? or maybe it was beneficial back when we were drawing paintings on the inside of caves.

It's a normal side-effect of being social beings. We generally wish for the approval and respect of our fellow humans - especially our superiors, peers and potential mates. Parents want their children to be successful in work, social situations and love, so they train their children in the niceties of their culture - its mores, manners, public demeanour, polite discourse, courtesy and protocol. People who can't or choose not to behave 'properly' are not well liked; other people don't want to marry them, be their friend, work with them, help them or support their ambitions. 

If you fail in or reject the major protocols, you become an outcast. In the more trivial aspects of public demeanour, people just laugh at you or frown at you. Farting in company is embarrassing. Dribbling sauce on your shirt when you're on a date is embarrassing. Showing up in a lumberjack shirt for a wedding reception is embarrassing. Simply because these things show you as incompetent or ignorant or just plain rude, and we don't like to be seen as those things. 

As for one's preference in clothing, we're a lot more liberal than we used to be. There have been times when the way a person presented himself - or worse, herself - in public could be viewed as a crime or breach of religious tenets. Wearing clothing intended for another gender can be considered in some segments of society a breach of decency. Wearing something outdated or inappropriate to the venue is not a breach of anything but aesthetic taste or fashion. Wearing something that doesn't suit you is nothing more that a disservice to your own attractiveness. Other people may look, may even snicker, but they don't condemn you.  

[MigL]

Soooo ...
You don't feel embarrassed, or awkward, at all, if your fly is undone, and your junk is hanging out, in a social situation ?
Pretty 'ballsy' !

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

Soooo ...
You don't feel embarrassed, or awkward, at all, if your fly is undone, and your junk is hanging out, in a social situation ?
Pretty 'ballsy' !

If an undone fly was enough to let my junk burst out of my underwear and hang there in front of everybody, I think I'd be proud as opposed to embarrassed.

[swansont]

9 hours ago, MigL said:

Soooo ...
You don't feel embarrassed, or awkward, at all, if your fly is undone, and your junk is hanging out, in a social situation ?
Pretty 'ballsy' !

Somebody has to dance on stage at Chippendales. Some folks just don’t feel embarrassed, or don’t care, in certain situations. When I was young, I wasn’t convinced that embarrassment wasn’t fatal. As I got older I got more comfortable with myself, and cared a lot less - I could laugh at myself if I did something stupid or klutzy, or had a joke played on me, instead of shrinking away if others got a chuckle out of it.

I recall an interview Robin Williams gave in which he described the gland that caused inhibitions/embarrassment being burned out in him, and others who could act outrageously on stage.

[MigL]

My previous post was meant to be humorous.
But on a serious note, embarrassment definitely has 'context'.
At different times of my life, I have been embarrassed by different things ( lately sight and age related ).
It also depends on the presence of an 'audience', , the size, age and gender of that audience.
And some of these factors affect people differently or not at all.

As an example, in the line above, I originally wrote "been enbarrassed by", and the editor flagged it as misspelled.
I checked the two Rs and the two Ss, I even googled the word, until I finally realized I had typed N instead of M ( eyesight issue ).
And even though it was just me and my cat, I still felt a twinge of embarrassment at my foolishness.

[Phi for All]

58 minutes ago, MigL said:

As an example, in the line above, I originally wrote "been enbarrassed by", and the editor flagged it as misspelled.
I checked the two Rs and the two Ss, I even googled the word, until I finally realized I had typed N instead of M ( eyesight issue ).
And even though it was just me and my cat, I still felt a twinge of embarrassment at my foolishness.

I completely relate to this! Your upper lip probably curled when you purposely misspelled it above.

We're proud of our use of the written word, and go to some effort to craft reasoned responses hoping they're clearly understood. Having a word flagged in an otherwise well-crafted sentence and hitting submit is like having a great conversation with someone but belching every time you try to say their name. Ignore those flags at your peril! 

As a side note, watch out for the double consonants and vowels. I've noticed a tendency of mine to triple tap when gooogling flaggged missspelllings due to embarrrasssment at my fooolishnesss. 

[TheVat]

When in France, I greatly amused some locals by referring to the cruise liner company as Conard, instead of Cunard.  This was how I learned that connard is French for asshole.  I wasn't too embarassed, thanks to the friendly company and my already earned status as something of a clown.  

[geordief]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

When in France, I greatly amused some locals by referring to the cruise liner company as Conard, instead of Cunard.  This was how I learned that connard is French for asshole.  I wasn't too embarassed, thanks to the friendly company and my already earned status as something of a clown.  

When I was in Paris ,aged 15 my host family took me out for the day to look at the Arc de Triomphe.

As we looked at Napoleon's different victorious battles and dates that were inscribed on the monument  I asked out loud and in complete naiveté "Where is Waterloo?"

To  complete silence .

I was completely unembarassed .I think I was put right when we got home.

Later I amused my friends by describing bad things as "terrible" when that actually means "really good"( a mistake categorised as  a "false friend")

 

Ps "espèce de con " or "espèce de conard" is a fine insult and "Le Canard enchainé" was the main satirical weekly magazine back then.

Edited May 18 by geordief

[Scientific_potato]

On 5/17/2024 at 10:27 PM, MigL said:

Soooo ...
You don't feel embarrassed, or awkward, at all, if your fly is undone, and your junk is hanging out, in a social situation ?
Pretty 'ballsy' !

Oh my mistake, i didnt think about that. i guess i did feel embarrassed by some things. but for things like when i say something that would get the response "dude, this is a wendy's" i mostly dont feel embarrassed- usually because i dont understand whats so embarrassing or i just dont care.  

[TheVat]

The "it's Wendy's" response comes from cultural norms about social boundaries when people are eating, AFAICT.  The idea is that Wendy's, not being a dinner theater or rowdy tavern or singles bar, is a place where you are focused on interaction with your dining companions (or if solitary, with your food).  IOW, the principle is to not have people at other tables too aware of you.    Maybe this kind of boundary setting is partly from the idea that meals are peaceful occasions where food is best enjoyed when we can focus on the sensual enjoyment of it.  Subcultures differ on the degree of peace, for sure.  But there is a common thread, starting from the traditional family dinner table, of not bringing up contentious topics or shouting or roughhousing, etc.  

That said, I see plenty of violations of these unspoken rules at many fast food places.  Once in a while, my eating partner and I find it a source of amusement.  But mostly it's just annoying.  Guess I would cast a vote for quiet or quiet-ish eating.