zapatos Posted May 29 Posted May 29 1 hour ago, JohnDBarrow said: I want to see an African bushman type society no more. Who cares what you want? Did you check with the African bushmen to see what they want? 1
iNow Posted May 30 Posted May 30 2 hours ago, sethoflagos said: Why do you pick on Africans? OP probably lacks sufficient education to avoid such simplistic stereotypes
TheVat Posted May 30 Posted May 30 4 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: I want no more elephant feces or garbage littering the streets of India. I am so sorry, Memsahib! My elephant has been given a stern warning and will avail herself of the proper elephant waterclosets in future. 1
JohnDBarrow Posted May 30 Author Posted May 30 (edited) 5 hours ago, joigus said: Yeah, hunter-gatherers are the problem. Sigh If reincarnation is true, I don't want to be reincarnated back into some nasty primitive society and suffer a future miserable existance. I want nothing but a utopian world to come back to in any possible future lifetimes on this planet. I, my immortal soul, got lucky enough just to be born into America this lifetime. My soul really got spoiled this lifetime. I say make the world a bowl of cherries for every living thing. Would YOU like to live as a Bushman and drink muddy water out of a puddle? Those people must smell very badly. I love the comforts of my western civilization Our future is supposed to be bringing us clean-burning vehicles anyway. One of the reason's I want our species to die down to a lower number is that so each and every person on earth can enjoy a modern vehicle without harming the environment provided clean energy one day powers them. What was the American Dream in the 1950's, I want to become the World Dream of the future. I also don't want to live in a society where folks are jammed onto subway trains like cattle. The human race would also do well to do away with those nasty nuclear weapons forever. Leonard Nimoy had a song called Highly Illogical in the 1960's. He sang Man made a mess out of planet Earth and might someday do the same to other parts of the universe with emerging space travel technology. I hope we don't mess some future planet up too like we did poor green Mother Earth. Edited May 30 by JohnDBarrow -3
StringJunky Posted May 30 Posted May 30 (edited) 2 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: Would YOU like to live as a Bushman and drink muddy water out of a puddle? Those people must smell very badly. You enjoy your Big Macs and help to turn the Earth into a polluted shithole. Don't forget to tuck your belly in your trousers.... or is it 'pants' in your language. Where are your compatriots dumping your excess rubbish? In "bushman" country and the like, of course. A manual reciprocatory motion to you, racist. Edited May 30 by StringJunky
joigus Posted May 30 Posted May 30 (edited) 7 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: If reincarnation is true, I don't want to be reincarnated back into some nasty primitive society and suffer a future miserable existance. 7 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: Leonard Nimoy had a song called Highly Illogical in the 1960's. He sang Man made a mess out of planet Earth and might someday do the same to other parts of the universe with emerging space travel technology. I hope we don't mess some future planet up too like we did poor green Mother Earth. That I find highly illogical. I think you got the song wrong. This would have made a lot more sense, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDcoX7s6rE Quote Adventure seeker on an empty street Just an alley creeper, light on his feet A young fighter screaming, with no time for doubt With the pain and anger can't see a way out It ain't much I'm asking, I heard him say Gotta find me a future move out of my way I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now I want it all, I want it all, I want it all, and I want it now Listen all you people, come gather round I gotta get me a game plan, gotta shake you to the ground But just give me, huh, what I know is mine People do you hear me, just gimme the sign It ain't much I'm asking, if you want the truth Here's to the future for the dreams of youth I want it all (give it all I want it all) I want it all (yeah) I want it all and I want it now I want it all (yes I want it all) I want it all hey I want it all and I want it now I'm a man with a one track mind So much to do in one lifetime (people do you hear me) Not a man for compromise and where's and why's and living lies So I'm living it all, yes I'm living it all And I'm giving it all, and I'm giving it all Oh oh yeah yeah ha ha ha ha ha Yeah yeah yeah yeah I want it all It ain't much I'm asking, if you want the truth Here's to the future Hear the cry of youth (hear the cry of youth) (hear the cry of youth) I want it all, I want it all, I want it all and I want it now I want it all yeah yeah yeah I want it all, I want it all and I want it now Oh oh oh oh oh And I want it (now) I want it, I want it Oh ha Edited May 30 by joigus minor text formatting
dimreepr Posted May 30 Posted May 30 On 5/29/2024 at 1:32 AM, JohnDBarrow said: I get this reasoning from Paul Ralph Ehrlich. In 2018 he said a world population of 1.5 - 2 billion living human heads is optimal. I opt to favor a slightly thinner population for a margin of safety. I have had a medical doctor tell me it is even more healthy to be slightly underweight than slightly overweight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sustainable_population#:~:text=Paul R.,technologies and best management practices. I also agree our species needs to consume less, waste less and pollute much less. We need smart practical sustainable energy alternatives to fossil fuels for our automobiles and such. Could we still live comfortably and happlily as materialistic 21st century Americans with a world human population of even as little as just a half a billion heads? Remember, it takes so much combined human resources to make possible your beloved modern comfy stuff like microwave ovens, Miller High Life beer, pizza, smartphones, Samsung SmartTV's, new Toyota trucks, leather jackets, BMW's, hot showers, indoor plumbing, Colt M4 Carbines and home central a/c. I certainly don't want to revert back to cave or grass hut life as a human armed only with a club or spear. This is imagration problem writ large "they took our job's" . The otherside of that coin is, not enough people were clever enough to solve the problem... 8 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: If reincarnation is true, I don't want to be reincarnated back into some nasty primitive society and suffer a future miserable existance. Well, that's karma for you... 🙄 Something trolls know very little about,,,
Phi for All Posted May 30 Posted May 30 9 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: Would YOU like to live as a Bushman and drink muddy water out of a puddle? Those people must smell very badly. ! Moderator Note Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person) are prohibited here. I'm inviting you to change your tone when posting here or leave with the utmost haste. Frankly, you sound like you're using AI to post in the most racist, offensive manner possible for a forum such as this. You're a caricature of modern male toxicity and prejudice, and none of your recent posts seem crafted in good faith.
sethoflagos Posted May 30 Posted May 30 10 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: I want nothing but a utopian world to come back to in any possible future lifetimes on this planet. I SO want your dream to be realised as a dung beetle in elephant country. A nice little lesson in humility though I'm sure it would be lost on you. 1
MigL Posted May 30 Posted May 30 On 5/29/2024 at 12:20 PM, JohnDBarrow said: I BOLDLY propose that mankind make planet Earth as pleasant as possible and as soon as humanly possible for any living things that happen to come along in the future whether by reincarnation or some other natural way. It will take getting the population to sensible numbers, finding a better alternative to fossil fuels and ending war, greed, hate and poverty among other things. I want all intelligent life on Earth to have the best of health and living comforts for as long as Mother Nature and Father Time shall continue Earth's existance. Humans don't want utopia, they need the struggle and choice; that's what makes us human. The machine intelligence already tried that. They put us all in pods to supply bio-electricity, after we scorched the sky, and fed us an illusion of utopia; the Architect made it quite naturally perfect, a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph only equaled by its monumental failure. The solution was stumbled upon by an intuitive program, called Oracle, whereby 99 % of subjects accepted the program if given adversity and choice, even if only an illusion. Unfortunately, this unbalanced equation leads to an anomaly, that if left unchecked, might threaten the system. This necessitates the destruction of the human race, every so often, to re-insert the anomalous code into the prime program. Oh wait ... that was a movie also.
JohnDBarrow Posted May 30 Author Posted May 30 (edited) 7 hours ago, Phi for All said: ! Moderator Note Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person) are prohibited here. I'm inviting you to change your tone when posting here or leave with the utmost haste. Frankly, you sound like you're using AI to post in the most racist, offensive manner possible for a forum such as this. You're a caricature of modern male toxicity and prejudice, and none of your recent posts seem crafted in good faith. I used BUSHMAN as an example of primitive man. I know of no other group of humanoids so primitive as this particular group on the planet today. I don't want live like Neanderthals did either. I am not racist at all. If given a choice, I'd rather come back as a clean-living and healthy black woman in some future lifetime to a life of American modern luxury than come back a homeless white man with a life of substance abuse on the streets. 2 hours ago, MigL said: Humans don't want utopia, they need the struggle and choice; that's what makes us human. The machine intelligence already tried that. They put us all in pods to supply bio-electricity, after we scorched the sky, and fed us an illusion of utopia; the Architect made it quite naturally perfect, a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph only equaled by its monumental failure. The solution was stumbled upon by an intuitive program, called Oracle, whereby 99 % of subjects accepted the program if given adversity and choice, even if only an illusion. Unfortunately, this unbalanced equation leads to an anomaly, that if left unchecked, might threaten the system. This necessitates the destruction of the human race, every so often, to re-insert the anomalous code into the prime program. Oh wait ... that was a movie also. Most humans do not want pain and suffering. Most pain and suffering I see today on this planet is Man's own fault. It arises out of ignorance, arrogance , selfishness, hate, anger and/or greed. 7 hours ago, sethoflagos said: I SO want your dream to be realised as a dung beetle in elephant country. A nice little lesson in humility though I'm sure it would be lost on you. For all I know, I may have been a dung beetle in any particular prior lifetime or I might even be one in some lifetime to come. The hand of fate makes those choices: we don't. It is not likely any memories of being a dung beetle in one lifetime would carry over to the next lifetime. I certainly have no recollection as being a dung beetle in any prior lifetime. Reincarnated living things, human or otherwise, may or may not retain memories of prior lifetimes. I doubt that any living dung beetle understands what humility even means. 9 hours ago, dimreepr said: This is imagration problem writ large "they took our job's" . The otherside of that coin is, not enough people were clever enough to solve the problem... Well, that's karma for you... 🙄 Something trolls know very little about,,, I'm not a troll: the future of this planet scares me. It's odd. There are about 8 billion living humanoids on this planet today and damned few clever ones. Perhaps when this planet gets up to 50 billion living human heads and everybody is killing somebody else for a scrap of food out of a dumpster, enough people, includuing idiots, will then realize that what I'm saying now makes sense. It will probably be too late to save us by then. 15 hours ago, StringJunky said: You enjoy your Big Macs and help to turn the Earth into a polluted shithole. Don't forget to tuck your belly in your trousers.... or is it 'pants' in your language. Where are your compatriots dumping your excess rubbish? In "bushman" country and the like, of course. A manual reciprocatory motion to you, racist. I hate McDonald's so-called hamburgers. Most of my food is store-bought at places like Walmart Supercenters and prepared at home. I mostly use reusable shopping bags. Occasionally, I will get plastic shopping bags that are then saved to be turned back into Walmart for recycling. I do have something in common with the Bushman: my great appetite for animal products like meat. I enjoy hunting game for sport and for good lean meat in America like dove and deer. I use a modern gun, and not a spear, to harvest my game on American soil. Mr. Junky, perhaps you can explain your own personal food consumption habits with us. I'd like to hear about them, please. Maybe we too can adopt those habits to possibly save Mother Earth. Edited May 30 by JohnDBarrow
CharonY Posted May 30 Posted May 30 "Bushman" is frequently considered to be a derogatory term, and the poster does a good job in demonstrating why it is to be the case. Frequently they refer to the the San peoples who have developed an incredible set of traditional knowledge and survival skills. Those might in fact come handy when the rest of us have polluted the Earth in pursuit of more convenience. As a matter of fact, many "primitive" folks can teach us a lot regarding resource stewardship (a research area that has gained prominence in the last decade or so). If you want to meet clever folks who are able to eke out a living without destroying everything, you probably should talk to those that you so readily dismiss. 1
JohnDBarrow Posted May 31 Author Posted May 31 The question is can we humanoids all enjoy modern living comforts, the benefits of advanced medicine and be free of body odor while still being kind to Mother Earth? Perhaps, being less dependent upon the automobile might even benefit our health and longevity if we were to bicycle ride or walk instead wherever and whenever practical to do so.
MigL Posted May 31 Posted May 31 I just can't take this conversation seriously, may be scientific bias, when he's talking about reincarnation ... 1
zapatos Posted May 31 Posted May 31 14 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said: The question is can we humanoids all enjoy modern living comforts, the benefits of advanced medicine and be free of body odor while still being kind to Mother Earth? If you choose a career in the theater I think you would be wonderful as that bloke who lives beneath bridges and in caves.
TheVat Posted May 31 Posted May 31 5 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: It is not likely any memories of being a dung beetle in one lifetime would carry over to the next lifetime. I certainly have no recollection as being a dung beetle in any prior lifetime. Starting to sense that our collective leg is being pulled. 5 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: Perhaps when this planet gets up to 50 billion living human heads and everybody is killing somebody else for a scrap of food out of a dumpster... Funny stuff! 2 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: The question is can we humanoids all enjoy modern living comforts, the benefits of advanced medicine and be free of body odor while still being kind to Mother Earth? Perhaps, being less dependent upon the automobile might even benefit our health and longevity if we were to bicycle ride or walk instead wherever and whenever practical to do so. This just in: bicycling may cause body odor. Also, earlier you said you might be traumatized if you reincarnated into a world where you lacked your nice semi rural home and personal car with AC. Mixed signals, dude.
JohnDBarrow Posted May 31 Author Posted May 31 (edited) 1 hour ago, TheVat said: Starting to sense that our collective leg is being pulled. Funny stuff! This just in: bicycling may cause body odor. Also, earlier you said you might be traumatized if you reincarnated into a world where you lacked your nice semi rural home and personal car with AC. Mixed signals, dude. That's why I love my hot showers to wash the funk off my body after working or exercising. If I have to travel 10 miles from home, I prefer my car. If I have to travel one mile to get a thing of milk and it's a nice day out, my bike will work just fine. 3 hours ago, zapatos said: If you choose a career in the theater I think you would be wonderful as that bloke who lives beneath bridges and in caves. I might rather just prefer to be a carpenter, an ecologist or a veterinarian. Dogs are the very best living thing that Mother Nature gave man as a companion. 3 hours ago, MigL said: I just can't take this conversation seriously, may be scientific bias, when he's talking about reincarnation ... Even Dr. Carl Sagan once said he cannot prove or disprove God's existance. I want this planet to be as nice as possible for whatever living thing has to endure here whether here by reincarnation or some other natural means. You tell me how you and I got here, hot shot. Edited May 31 by JohnDBarrow
StringJunky Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 10 hours ago, CharonY said: "Bushman" is frequently considered to be a derogatory term, and the poster does a good job in demonstrating why it is to be the case. Frequently they refer to the the San peoples who have developed an incredible set of traditional knowledge and survival skills. Those might in fact come handy when the rest of us have polluted the Earth in pursuit of more convenience. As a matter of fact, many "primitive" folks can teach us a lot regarding resource stewardship (a research area that has gained prominence in the last decade or so). If you want to meet clever folks who are able to eke out a living without destroying everything, you probably should talk to those that you so readily dismiss. Absolutely. When we finally fuck it up, we'll be asking these people how to work with these incredibly fragile environments. They are not wastelands. I've never considered 'Bush Man' to be derogatory term and wasn't aware it was such until now. Sad. Edited May 31 by StringJunky
dimreepr Posted May 31 Posted May 31 15 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: I'm not a troll: the future of this planet scares me. It's odd. There are about 8 billion living humanoids on this planet today and damned few clever ones. Perhaps when this planet gets up to 50 billion living human heads and everybody is killing somebody else for a scrap of food out of a dumpster, enough people, includuing idiots, will then realize that what I'm saying now makes sense. It will probably be too late to save us by then. Maybe not, but what you're also not, is thinking logically about the problem, which fundamentally comes down to the ultimate question, "who do we decide to kill?"; bc it's as sure as shit you ain't voting for you...
sethoflagos Posted May 31 Posted May 31 4 hours ago, StringJunky said: I've never considered 'Bush Man' to be derogatory term and wasn't aware it was such until now. Sad. This has been tested in South African courts. In what I consider to show a remarkably conciliatory attitude, the San and associated peoples stated that they didn't object to the term 'Bushman' providing it was framed in a positive context. Obviously our racist little troll falls way short of that requirement. 2
MigL Posted May 31 Posted May 31 14 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said: You tell me how you and I got here, hot shot. I don't know about you, but I was born, for the first and only time, as a result of my dad and mom having sexual relations, about 65 years ago. Do we need to have a 'birds and bees' talk ... 1
StringJunky Posted May 31 Posted May 31 (edited) 5 hours ago, sethoflagos said: This has been tested in South African courts. In what I consider to show a remarkably conciliatory attitude, the San and associated peoples stated that they didn't object to the term 'Bushman' providing it was framed in a positive context. Obviously our racist little troll falls way short of that requirement. That's good to hear, Seth. It's how people say things and in what context... it can be done to any description. Tone matters. 'Bushman', 'Aborigine', 'Bedouin' et al are never used by me in a negative context. I have great respect for those that function in harsh environments, productively using what they have available. If you see me using them, it is always with respect. I do not consider those groups as lower in social status that have less resources available. Mongolians have the same problem, it seems. I don't ever want them to stop calling themselves 'Mongolians' because it is seen as derogatory. Edited May 31 by StringJunky
CharonY Posted May 31 Posted May 31 6 hours ago, sethoflagos said: This has been tested in South African courts. In what I consider to show a remarkably conciliatory attitude, the San and associated peoples stated that they didn't object to the term 'Bushman' providing it was framed in a positive context. Thanks for that info, very interesting- I was not aware of the details just the general sense among (some) social scientists. 1 hour ago, StringJunky said: Mongolians have the same problem, it seems. I don't ever want them to stop calling themselves 'Mongolians' because it is seen as derogatory. The issue with terms such as "Bushman" arises from the fact that folks (typically colonizers) invented those names for them. Even if (that is sometimes a bit if) it is not intended in a derogatory way, the argument is that it takes away from their identity. In some cases naming groups is just a language thing (e.g. countries are named differently in different language) and that is OK as it still refers to e.g. a certain geographic origin or identity that makes sense. But giving a group a name that is basically made up and based on some outsiders perception of them, that is where things generally get iffy. I should add that from what I understand even San falls under the same issue- it is just less evocative for English speakers. So I am not saying that these things are straightforward- just the way it was used in this thread by a certain poster was really telling.
JohnDBarrow Posted May 31 Author Posted May 31 (edited) 4 hours ago, MigL said: I don't know about you, but I was born, for the first and only time, as a result of my dad and mom having sexual relations, about 65 years ago. Do we need to have a 'birds and bees' talk ... You probably don't think of YOU as an eternal soul. I don't think of that physical terminal body wrapped around my natural eternal soul as ME. The SOUL is ME. Some man met some woman to fabricate a temporary body for my soul in 1963 according to what I believe. To reject all notions of possible life hereafter is about as naive as to reject all possibilties of intelligent life beyond planet Earth. I see Man as a member of the animal kingdom. I think of Homo sapiens sapiens as being three subspecies: Caucasoid, Negroid and Mongoloid. This has to do with skin/hair/eye pigment, hair textures, skull shapes and facial features. Comparing white people, black people and yellow/red/brown people is about like comparing bulldogs, German shepherds, chihuahuas and American foxhounds. Edited May 31 by JohnDBarrow -6
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