Using a container to pump water...

[Externet]

Hi.  

Seen several contraptions shown in youtube videos that seem to pump somehow and a container works in partial vacuum.  There is maaaany videos doing the same in many styles.  Can someone explain what is going on ?

I dislike to send you to a particular link,  just search terms "water pump" within youtube for your own choice.   If you really want an example link, try

--->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Afu1ViH3E   and dozens appear at the side column.  They all use a container, and mostly asian construction.  Perhaps there is one in english.

 

[exchemist]

On 6/2/2024 at 3:34 AM, Externet said:

Hi.  

Seen several contraptions shown in youtube videos that seem to pump somehow and a container works in partial vacuum.  There is maaaany videos doing the same in many styles.  Can someone explain what is going on ?

I dislike to send you to a particular link,  just search terms "water pump" within youtube for your own choice.   If you really want an example link, try

--->  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23Afu1ViH3E   and dozens appear at the side column.  They all use a container, and mostly asian construction.  Perhaps there is one in english.

 

YouTube is full of shit. I suspect most of us have better things to do than trawl through it, looking for something that may or not be what you are talking about.

I had a quick look at the link you provided, but as ever there is no adequate description of what is being done. As I am not going to indulge in guesswork, that's the end of it for me.   

[Externet]

Understood and agreed.  Thanks for the good intention.

[Endy0816]

This video gives much clearer details, math involved and their results from testing(it did not at their elevation).

 

My take is that it is supposed to exploit the difference in air pressure between the inlet and outlet. May be worth retesting at a lower elevation.

Edited June 3 by Endy0816

[exchemist]

29 minutes ago, Endy0816 said:

This video gives much clearer details, math involved and their results from testing(it did not at their elevation).

 

My take is that it is supposed to exploit the difference in air pressure between the inlet and outlet. May be worth retesting at a lower elevation.

This is very unclear indeed. The voiceover talks of Bernoulli, suggesting the principle is the suction from a partial vacuum created by a flow of water through a venturi. This is how the laboratory water aspirator, commonly used in suction filtration, works:   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vacuum_ejector

But that does not seem to be what is going on the YouTube video linked by @Externet, nor does this video of yours show any venturi, or indeed any source of the constant flow of water needed to sustain a  water aspirator. The maths is not shown. There is just one little formula flashed up for a couple of seconds, with no explanation. The design of the system is not shown either, so far as I can see. It's all hidden inside the barrel. One gets the impression this bunch in the video have no idea what they are doing, and indeed, mirabile dictu,  it doesn't work!  

This is all crap, by the look of it. 

 

[swansont]

The situation on the left won’t work, since the water is going higher - you need to do work. It could work if there was sufficient flow, and you converted KE into PE. They mention this early on; it’s what happens in a ram pump.

The situation on the right is a siphon, with a reservoir in the middle. Water ends up at a lower PE, so there’s no need for work to be done. 

[sethoflagos]

The 'logic' seems to be that running water out of a sealed header tank creates a partial vacuum (true so far) that can be used to suck up water from a lower elevation than the discharge.

13 minutes ago, exchemist said:

This all crap, by the look of it. 

Seconded. Just another PM dream.

As for the ram pump idea, if the incoming velocity head was higher than the required lift, the flow would climb the bank of it's own accord.

[J.C.MacSwell]

8 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

As for the ram pump idea, if the incoming velocity head was higher than the required lift, the flow would climb the bank of it's own accord.

Ram pumps work. They can elevate water above that of the velocity head, just not all the water contributing kinetic energy.

If velocity head was the maximum pressure harnessable by a water streams momentum, water hammer wouldn't be much of an issue.

[sethoflagos]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Ram pumps work. They can elevate water above that of the velocity head, just not all the water contributing kinetic energy.

If velocity head was the maximum pressure harnessable by a water streams momentum, water hammer wouldn't be much of an issue.

Yes, I'm well aware of how ram pumps work.

But there was no ram pump in the system described, and therefore no means of channeling the input kinetic energy preferentially into the vertical output stream.

[exchemist]

17 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

The 'logic' seems to be that running water out of a sealed header tank creates a partial vacuum (true so far) that can be used to suck up water from a lower elevation than the discharge.

Seconded. Just another PM dream.

As for the ram pump idea, if the incoming velocity head was higher than the required lift, the flow would climb the bank of it's own accord.

Yes. From a purely energetic viewpoint one could imagine that a fall of 2kg of water through 0.5m would be enough to lift 0.5kg of water through 2m.  But the problem seems to me to be that the "suction" , i.e. pressure drop, generated in their setup is determined by the head of water in the container, which, being less than the head needed to draw the water up from the well, cannot possibly achieve that. I think they would need to put all the water in their container into a tall pipe, taller than the depth of the well, and let the suction from that, as it empties from the bottom, draw water up.  

Anyway the whole exercise is pointless as it relies on refilling a container with water to keep the thing going, as they have no running water source to sustain any of these ideas. So just typical YouTube crap.

 

[J.C.MacSwell]

10 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

Yes, I'm well aware of how ram pumps work.

But there was no ram pump in the system described, and therefore no means of channeling the input kinetic energy preferentially into the vertical output stream.

Okay. I'm not sure what ram pump idea you were referring to, but it seemed you were implying their use was limited by velocity head.

[sethoflagos]

20 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

Okay. I'm not sure what ram pump idea you were referring to, but it seemed you were implying their use was limited by velocity head.

Just a poorly worded afterthought. I intended to say that in the absence of a ram pump or equivalent, the only driving force to hand is the velocity head of the source.

On the other hand a ram pump could use a waste flow head drop of a metre, say, to generate surge pulses of up to 15 bar or so albeit for a much lower flowrate.

[J.C.MacSwell]

9 hours ago, sethoflagos said:

Just a poorly worded afterthought. I intended to say that in the absence of a ram pump or equivalent, the only driving force to hand is the velocity head of the source.

On the other hand a ram pump could use a waste flow head drop of a metre, say, to generate surge pulses of up to 15 bar or so albeit for a much lower flowrate.

Okay. Thanks for the clarification.

[Externet]

Yesterday my farmer-background-style neighbor saw me watering plants with a bucket as my cistern was too low to siphon for irrigation, and told me to build the "container" sheeety pump.  I asked him to build one for me and show me how it can work.  Here I go again.  Now it is trendy ?  What is going on ?  Doubt he will build one, but I will push him hard for it.  And he says to do it with a bottle as 'container' 🙄

More of the same crap videos I do not understand... WTF?    Export to speculations if deserved; but do not bring ram pumps to the mix, please.

 

[Endy0816]

43 minutes ago, Externet said:

Yesterday my farmer-background-style neighbor saw me watering plants with a bucket as my cistern was too low to siphon for irrigation, and told me to build the "container" sheeety pump.  I asked him to build one for me and show me how it can work.  Here I go again.  Now it is trendy ?  What is going on ?  Doubt he will build one, but I will push him hard for it.  And he says to do it with a bottle as 'container' 🙄

More of the same crap videos I do not understand... WTF?    Export to speculations if deserved; but do not bring ram pumps to the mix, please.

 

May just be using an offscreen energy source to move water(vacuum/pump), with the barrel acting as a reservoir.

Do you have a wet/dry vac you could use?

If your cistern can be sealed, could alternatively force air inside and force water out that way.

[Externet]

Thanks.  No electricity at the cistern location, for pumping, blowing or vacuuming, and not hermetic. Is 3m x 5m x 2m deep made of concrete blocks.

[Ghideon]

Just got curious; my interpretation; combining explanations already given with some hints in videos. 

On 6/3/2024 at 5:19 PM, sethoflagos said:

running water out of a sealed header tank creates a partial vacuum

and

On 6/4/2024 at 11:16 AM, exchemist said:

the whole exercise is pointless as it relies on refilling a container with water

Assuming there are no hidden pumps or other devices. And the contraptions in the videos need only to work for a short while; just long enough to create a video clip.

First video, in opening post:

1. fill the large and wide container with lots of water (in other words, perform work)
2. add a small diameter inlet (I checked one more video and they also seem to have a larger outlet than inlet. In the OP video a hose with smaller diameter seems to be attached to the inlet)
3. open a larger diameter outlet at the bottom
4. While the container is being emptied a smaller amount of water will be flowing in from the inlet due to the lower pressure inside.
5. The large diameter of the tank (compared to the small outlet and even smaller inlet) means it is tricky to see, in a short clip, that the water level is sinking.

Guess:

1. By manually filling a tank with lots of water, you can pump up a small amount of water with the help of the potential energy.
2. If the ratios of diameters of inlet, outlet and tank are off then the tank will drain in "bursts", allowing air to flow through the outlet. Similar to a filled water bottle being turned upside down
3. If the device is left for a while tho flow of water into the container will stop and air will enter through the outlet, in "bursts", also similar to a filled water bottle being turned upside down.

So, it is just a trick to create a YouTube video. (Or my assumption is wrong and there is a hidden pump  )

Edited July 15 by Ghideon

[exchemist]

12 hours ago, Externet said:

Yesterday my farmer-background-style neighbor saw me watering plants with a bucket as my cistern was too low to siphon for irrigation, and told me to build the "container" sheeety pump.  I asked him to build one for me and show me how it can work.  Here I go again.  Now it is trendy ?  What is going on ?  Doubt he will build one, but I will push him hard for it.  And he says to do it with a bottle as 'container' 🙄

More of the same crap videos I do not understand... WTF?    Export to speculations if deserved; but do not bring ram pumps to the mix, please.

 

I think the answers have already been given earlier in this thread. I'm not going to watch another crap YouTube video just to come to the same conclusion. 

These videos seem to come from the Far East: "She make free energy water pump..." etc. Makes a change from Western crap videos about free energy from magnets, but crap nonetheless. 

[Externet]

2 hours ago, Ghideon said:

So, it is just a trick to create a YouTube video.

Thanks.  I believe the behavior of the contraption is not even understood by mostly the far easterns making them, giving it a flavor of mystery to convince themselves.  Just like religion.  It is the gods doing the pumping. So it must be true; and to be believed.