Who do I vote for to aid singles suffering involuntary celibacy

[ImplicitDemands]

45 minutes ago, MigL said:

That's funny.
One guy, telling everyone else that it is they who are delusional ...

I don't know what you look like, but I doubt it.
You do, however, act, talk, and think like one.
Do you think that's an attractive quality ????

If a recurring pattern becomes detrimental to one's own well-being, it should be addressed by that person in some way. As you say you don't know me, so why make it personal? Why not do what other members do and treat it like a debate. No, I do not find it attractive, I find it necessary especially since on here I have demonstrated positive qualities (despite the unusual influx of negative reputations in the computer science forum far exceed those in here where I ramble) I know when I've displayed accurate information of particular value and I know what not to display. This is my form of business, so this is the place I address it. 

Yes, I'm treated as a loser would be treated, maybe this is because I rely on government program, am unapologically stingy and selfish. Right now I am adressing this issue, I've become sober so now I'm also going to do the right thing and start taking precautions to generate income the right way, through service even if I feel that service is synthesized or superficial. Appearances are everything, I don't talk like a desperate loser even, I am writing like one here but for a specific reason. I don't feel ashamed. Not even for suggesting we go back to arranged marriage (with a finessed approach, not the hercy jerky kind you see in Game of Thrones). 

10 hours ago, swansont said:

Appearances can be deceiving

Doesn't matter. If someone doesn't have a lot of time to make a choice light travels faster than sound, hence looks. Different kinds of appearances, saving face, a lot of times people are not themselves because they are in an unusual situation, or they are too honest (as I am now), now I can't save face! Or the literal meaning of saving face, someone happens to be at their boiling point, they perceive a verbal exchange from the wrong angle, assault occurs and face can't be saved. Make a bad call and get judged. That's all there is to it, it's pretty cut and dry. Get used to it. That's the law of the land.

This thread is about changing that just by attaching a gameplan to someone's SSN, not just a rap-sheet. Right now if you can't carry a tune you don't stand a chance, one little critique and game over. You're homeless. Although I'm experiencing that and look outward and see the opposite, appearances can be deceiving but that's not what I need right now. That's a detriment, even if that were to be flipped I see someone else having every little thing go wrong and they fall apart, appearances can be deceiving. Maybe it's a gimmick to make me feel better, maybe that person is doing great. This is the craziness in my mind, yet I go out there and I put on a performance, I'm doing great on the outside. It would even seem like I'm cool with the obvious public demonstrations of unfairness blatantly out there. No one would believe I actually am.

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[orgotude]

Back to the subject, if you're poverty income you would want to vote for those who propose expanding public housing.

If you are incel due to health issues, you'd likely want to favor a politician looking to destroy chronic illness in the USA, which is becoming a much more popular campaign promise.

If you are autistic or otherwise low in social skills, you might favor government or social intervention in facilitating warm meetings between people. (not arranged marriages, which are impractical at best).   I'm not aware of any politician in the USA proposing such things, but there are experiments with this in a few Asian countries.  

If you are incel due to institutions, you'd likely benefit from those institutions being eliminated.  But that is not very practical in the case of prisons.  A lot of lefties argue for prison abolition, but it doesn't make much sense to me.  Psychiatric abolition on the other hand, seems completely reasonable to me, coupled with making psych drugs OTC for those above x age, with harsh punishments for marketing to minors or the unemployed.

Then there's also the option of simply paying women, which if made legal would help many different kinds of incels.   Brought this up in a prior post and so did another poster.

One could come up with a lot of different policies that could help incel, as the causes are so diverse, but no one is really campaigning for president on much more than positions on abortion and immigration.   I try to vote for local politicians who have incel friendly policies though, as best I understand it.

Edited June 22 by orgotude

[ImplicitDemands]

To reiterate how picky the situation makes me, particularly regarding looks. It might seem like cartoon physics biology that if I ate any less daily than I am now, or any more, even hair's breadth, it would make the difference between actually being either anorexic or obese depending on which direction the food balance tips. My eye in the mirror is picking up on any microscopic detail that could ever possibly remind me of either a holocaust victim or a sumo-wrestler. Maybe after I get used to it I'll let you get off on me marrying an Ogre after taking all the supermodels for yourself.

Yeah that's not happening, yes looks ARE a prerequisite, FOR EVERYONE. For the simple reason that they at least on some level will feel short-sold/ripped off because of who their friends are with. 

29 minutes ago, orgotude said:

health issues

Omg, would you people stop it with this. I'm articulate, not deranged. 

30 minutes ago, orgotude said:

simply paying women, 

On all dating apps you can pay to chat with catfish, literally. 

[zapatos]

6 minutes ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Yeah that's not happening, yes looks ARE a prerequisite, FOR EVERYONE

I'm sorry my friend but you have one messed up view of the world. No wonder you are struggling so much.

[ImplicitDemands]

34 minutes ago, orgotude said:

different policies

Yours are crazy policies. Except public housing. The craziest one is man-made mind altering substances. That's not a science, that's either hubris, intentional sabotage, or a poor understanding of nature. 

My policy was to involve certain benefits of being seen on the center of the stage, like in a sport or whatever, maybe make the local newspaper, in a tight community where you share classes and activities with your audience. Because that is a formula that can be effective for various reasons that go beyond the advice here simply joining a group. Or having two families who can exchange information about how a relative from each behave and can set up events where they'd be sure to bond. Something of that nature, which by the way I didn't hear mentioned as a solution, is the way. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[iNow]

40 minutes ago, orgotude said:

prison abolition, but it doesn't make much sense to me. 

People argue more FOR a focus on rehabilitation and safe societal reintegration, not for abolishment of prisons outright. Things often make more sense when you accurately frame the proposals being made. 

42 minutes ago, orgotude said:

no one is really campaigning for president on much more than positions on abortion and immigration

Presidents neither write nor pass the laws anyway. That’s the job of Congress. 

[ImplicitDemands]

13 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I'm sorry my friend but you have one messed up view of the world. No wonder you are struggling so much.

 I feel like the suggestion that I should lower my standards instead of working harder to earn them is just an insult to my ideals. 

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

societal reintegration

Actually they have programs that claim to do this, but it's just a lighter form of punishments.

It would be great if something like this existed that was done scientifically, according to situations that work, as I explained in the previous post. The truth is, the fact that we all start the same and certain situations change us, is overlooked. The prevailing sentiment of the census when it comes to prevention versus causation/method incrimination is that "they" just don't deserve real rehabilitation. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[iNow]

18 minutes ago, ImplicitDemands said:

I'm articulate, not deranged. 

These are not mutually exclusive. 

[ImplicitDemands]

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

These are not mutually exclusive. 

The ability to express ideas vividly through language, even if you get sidetracked by adhd as I do, actually makes it more apparent that a lot of what's been said about my supposed lack of social skills/interpersonal awareness is probably not true. 

4 minutes ago, iNow said:

These are not mutually exclusive. 

And I'm not one to delude myself. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, ImplicitDemands said:

I feel like the suggestion that I should lower my standards instead of working harder to earn them is just an insult to my ideals. 

But you're freaking miserable and 100% unsuccessful! You are CHOOSING celibacy and a worthless life because you cannot or will not accept reality. YOU are the one with the problems, not the government and not the rest of the world. It is you, and it is of your own making.

[ImplicitDemands]

8 minutes ago, zapatos said:

But you're freaking miserable and 100% unsuccessful!

For now.

Someone said on here, "stop trying to effect". In terms of success in the context of this particular conversation. I could already have already succeeded but due to the nature of the goal I wouldn't know immediately. 

8 minutes ago, zapatos said:

a worthless life

No, I claimed that my efforts were wasted because SOMEBODY went and lowered their standards due to bad direction/impatience. Which I told you was exactly what I went through my first time. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[orgotude]

7 hours ago, zapatos said:

[ImplicitDemands] YOU are the one with the problems, not the government and not the rest of the world. It is you, and it is of your own making.

To be fair to ImplicitDemands I think the world has more problems than him/her

8 hours ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Yours are crazy policies. Except public housing. The craziest one is man-made mind altering substances. That's not a science, that's either hubris, intentional sabotage, or a poor understanding of nature. 

My policy was to involve certain benefits of being seen on the center of the stage, like in a sport or whatever, maybe make the local newspaper, in a tight community where you share classes and activities with your audience. Because that is a formula that can be effective for various reasons that go beyond the advice here simply joining a group. Or having two families who can exchange information about how a relative from each behave and can set up events where they'd be sure to bond. Something of that nature, which by the way I didn't hear mentioned as a solution, is the way. 

No I don't think drugs will solve heterosexual incel. I'm just tying the policies to my previous discussion of those who suffer incel most obviously ie those in institutions.  So for those incel due to involuntary psych measures, I feel they'd be better off without psychiatry, and for other reasons as well.  And legalizing all psych drugs OTC for those above x age (and with heavy punishment for marketing to children and the unemplyed) is just the easiest way I can think to accomplish that for that demographic.

As far as families setting up people to choose voluntarily, yes that can work, but I'd avoid calling it arranged marriage as that is close to forced marriage in most people's minds.  Also, how would you propose to legislate familial warm meetings?  I'm just curious, I'm not trying to be hostile to you.

Edited June 22 by orgotude

[swansont]

11 hours ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Doesn't matter.

Sure it does. If you’re going to claim that you and you alone are having a tough time (“the bs I have to deal with in life” while “everyone else is floating on clouds”) realizing the truth might allow you to do things to change your situation. Or you can wallow. It’s your choice. Thinking you are powerless to improve things is a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[zapatos]

3 hours ago, orgotude said:

To be fair to ImplicitDemands I think the world has more problems than him/her

Yes, you are correct. I meant to say that his situation was primarily internally driven and not externally driven.

[iNow]

The OP displays all the hallmarks of a self-reinforcing delusion 

[geordief]

17 minutes ago, iNow said:

The OP displays all the hallmarks of a self-reinforcing delusion 

Have there been studies to show that incels as a group  can be defined as misogynistic(my suspicion)?

If so ,everything that follows that seems like it  would be a self reinforcing delusion.

 

I did find one study online

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448231176777

but have no idea how  rigorous it is and whether there are more studies that contradict or reinforce it (and I don't have the patience or concentration to go right  through it  myself)

[ImplicitDemands]

2 hours ago, geordief said:

Have there been studies to show that incels as a group  can be defined as misogynistic(my suspicion)?

If so ,everything that follows that seems like it  would be a self reinforcing delusion.

 

I did find one study online

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/14614448231176777

but have no idea how  rigorous it is and whether there are more studies that contradict or reinforce it (and I don't have the patience or concentration to go right  through it  myself)

Now this is obvious random slander slapped in here. 

We've already separated my definition of term from the standard definition. In my case it is a matter of achieving a certain quality relationship for the worth of the work I put in both for my body and for my status. It has nothing to do with misogyny, it has to do with sociology. I'm a socialist, not a chauvinist. The two are not even comparable. They are opposites. To compare them as a visual it is the difference between an LoTR Orc and an LoTR Elf. Socialism is about being FAIR.

3 hours ago, iNow said:

The OP displays all the hallmarks of a self-reinforcing delusion 

I'm calling out what I see, what I see APPEARS as I've written. Whether or not I actually believe it at face value is irrelevant when it makes me feel a certain way all the same. If I get nudged away, or niced away, I will have no choice but to take it literally. Again, I'm not telepathic, I don't know what anyone else is thinking, even if the recurring pattern is brutally harsh and taking it's toll, because I am not a mind reader I have to take it at face value. 

3 hours ago, swansont said:

realizing the truth

I've just taken as many responsibilities for next as I did last year. This time it was by choice, so I get a number that is meaningless to me as a reward, a salary. But is that going to help with what I want? I don't have time to find out what everyone does behind closed doors 24/7, so I'm going to have to continue taking things at face value. Hopefully it won't continue to appear so ridiculous. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[TheVat]

1 minute ago, ImplicitDemands said:

 

We've already separated what my definition of term from the standard definition. In my case it is a matter of achieving a certain quality relationship for the worth of the work I put in both for my body and for my status. 

 

Love and intimacy do not thrive from a transactional approach.  You don't approach it with the attitude of I've invested time and money in my appearance and status, so we should have a great relationship.  That tends to be heard as "I want a prostitute, now!  One who is reasonable in price, and looks good on my arm!"  That's an attitude that must be abandoned rather than concealed.

Forget your body and instead seek the intangibles that make a partner happy and your times together mutually enjoyable.  Cultivate fun and games and real sharing, not defined abs.  Bodies, if you walk them every day and feed them healthy stuff, will generally be fine.  Maybe a little pilates or calisthenics, for muscle tone.  I had several relationships before I settled into LT monogamy and never had a companion indicate that I should sculpt or shave my torso.  I looked like a scrawny non-leading man, somewhere near Sam Rockwell on the spectrum (the actor I most resemble, per reliable sources) and fairly charisma-free.  If you have flaws or lacks (who doesn't), make them a fertile source of jokes - showing you are aware of them but not trapped or undermined by them.  Sam Rockwell can have fun and adventure just as well as Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth. (albeit not on a movie screen)(well, wait, he did have some remarkable achievements as Zaphod Beeblebrox...)

[geordief]

50 minutes ago, ImplicitDemands said:

We've already separated my definition of term from the standard definition.

To save me the trouble of going through the thread ,could you show me where "we" did that?

 

57 minutes ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Now this is obvious random slander slapped in here. 

Could only be libel on the internet.Slander is for the spoken word to the best of my knowledge.

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Now this is obvious random slander slapped in here. 

 

It is not slander if it is true.

1 hour ago, ImplicitDemands said:

In my case it is a matter of achieving a certain quality relationship for the worth of the work I put in both for my body and for my status.

If a potential partner took that attitude with me I would kick their ass right out the door. What a narcissist.

[ImplicitDemands]

41 minutes ago, zapatos said:

It is not slander if it is true.

If a potential partner took that attitude with me I would kick their ass right out the door. What a narcissist.

If someone held you in high standards you'd reject them for picking you? Self-worth is narcissism? What? 

56 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Love and intimacy do not thrive from a transactional approach.

That's not what I meant. I am talking about being stingy/picky. 

[iNow]

On 6/20/2024 at 6:45 PM, iNow said:

Based solely on what’s been posted in this thread, it’s hardly surprising you can’t find a mate nor get laid. It’s been an uninteresting mixture of crybaby and caricaturing and cartoonish dehumanizing throughout. 

 

[ImplicitDemands]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Sam Rockwell can have fun and adventure just as well as Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth

How about Seth Rogan? He does tell very funny jokes but I don't think that creates friction in other areas. 

Look, a lot of this advice as been crafted to be misleading. That is a fact, it's something that happens to me all of the time. But there are certain mechanisms behind attraction and body-type reflects effort, lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with allowing something that makes you attracted to a person apart of your standards. It's perfectly normal. 

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Forget your body and instead seek the intangibles that make a partner happy and your times together mutually enjoyable. 

Status determines what you have, what's provided, health care, vacation. Basically how the government treats you and your own. I work on all aspects of myself including public relations. I accept, even though I expressed the opposite sentiment, the importance of the group even as it pertains to the quality I provide as a romantic partner. Evidence of this in how I carry myself in real life is that I actually made time to be social at the bequest of another and then was immediately stabbed in the back. I just feel like the more that I put it the more ridiculous it seems when nothing changes, or the irritating it becomes. In fact it now seems like it's getting worse. That just encourages reversing what I do and taking a hedonist approach, let me get out of shape and do nothing and get all the girls as I see everyone else doing, which is counterproductive let's be real here. There needs to be an attempt at rewarding good behavior instead of doing the opposite. 

iNow is making the immaturity of my situation manifest online, randomly quoting negative comments. The fact that I'm surrounded by what comes across as sado-dom horse dung is becoming plain as day. 

Edited June 22 by ImplicitDemands

[MSC]

On 6/21/2024 at 1:25 AM, ImplicitDemands said:

For the most part manageable but Some days, ya know when I'm shaving my torso and cutting 40 pounds and then counting every calorie while doing all kinds of muscle groups when they make it difficult for me to get a decent spotter to help me go past failure to make sure that if I gain even an ounce of muscle there is zero fat to come with, having razor burns from shaving every hair that isn't on my eyebrow or head where it's fricken supposed to be, and I see an athletic woman go into a dorm with some fat furry who's too lazy to shave probably doing some pseudo major.

Listen; you are a man. Women are women. What you think makes a man attractive is not what women think makes a man attractive. In fact, it sounds like everything you are doing, is more likely to attract another man or a very superficial women. Whether you think it is logical or reasonable that a women was more into some fat furry while paying you zero attention, that's the reality of it. Women aren't even all the same when it comes to what attracts them. Some like goofiness, people who don't take themselves too seriously or aren't too critical or self centred. Hell, any guy who meaningfully engages with a child in front of women immediately gains attraction points. 

Let me put this to you in a way I think you'll appreciate; you've worked on the body it seems, I'm sure you look great and it sounds like you take care of yourself. Hell, I may even pick your brain as admittedly it sounds like you're better at that stuff than I am via exercise. 

Where you need to focus on now, is sculpting and molding your fault personality. Honestly if I'll say anything about this incel stuff, it's just not pragmatic to believe in. At all. It's all a major turn off for women and the culture is only becoming more known about by more women. So let it go. You do not understand women very well and you need to develop that as well as empathy for women and their worries, fears and concerns when it comes to men, if you expect to have any romantic success. 

Focus here and now, forget about the past. Forget what you think you know about women. You've got a choice to make. Either you can keep grieving over past romantic failures and stay in the incel self fulfilling prophecy cycle until you're old, bitter and not in good physical shape.... Or, you can swallow a bit of pride, chip your ego away a bit and listen to those of us here who together know enough about women to help you change your perspective enough to make you be the rest of the change you need to be successful. 

I don't know what your upbringing was like, but honestly I'm kind of pissed at your dad for letting things get like this for you. Based on what you said about your age, we are about the same age. I've been married, I have kids and I've always gotten along well with women for the most part and I spent time as a stay at home parent so have walked a mile in what used to be the traditionally female shoes... but without the heels, I'm tall enough already. 

Closing thoughts; you're obviously too intelligent to be allowed to keep burrowing deeper into the incel rabbit hole. So here is a lifeline, take it or leave it, just remember if you leave it you'll keep going in circles until you drown.

1 hour ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Self-worth is narcissism? What? 

I didn't want to come right out and say it but no, Narcissism is Malignant self-love. What does it mean for self-love to be malignant? When your love of yourself gets in the way of a crucial aspect of life. For example; not being able to keep a job or attract women. Based on your struggles with women, you do kind of qualify as there being something psychiactric or neurological holding you back from being able to attain what you need as a human for a full and happy life. There is definitely something going on and I'm not saying this from a place of judgement or saying it makes you a bad person and this isn't an insult. But you do need help, and on some level you are aware of that because you're seeking answers from strangers on the internet. Listen it's not great having to admit you have a problem but I think most of us have been there, I certainly have! But a strong person can admit when there is a problem with themselves and seek help for it. So make a change. You have some very smart people talking to you right now all saying similarly and while no one here is qualified to diagnose you with anything, we are smart enough to know when someone has a problem they need to fix in themselves based on how they write. 

18 hours ago, iNow said:

Things often make more sense when you accurately frame the proposals being made. 

Yup, even if you disagree with the proposals or claims being made. Make the claim in it's strongest format. Always. +1

2 hours ago, ImplicitDemands said:

iNow is making the immaturity of my situation manifest online, randomly quoting negative comments. The fact that I'm surrounded by what comes across as sado-dom horse dung is becoming plain as day. 

iNow is just being a good example of the fact there are social consequences even to the views we hold and share with others and that should maybe tell you something about those views. You've made plenty of statements sharing your own frustrations, irritations etc so can you blame others for being irritated with you?

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, ImplicitDemands said:

Look, a lot of this advice as been crafted to be misleading. That is a fact, it's something that happens to me all of the time. But there are certain mechanisms behind attraction and body-type reflects effort, lifestyle. There's nothing wrong with allowing something that makes you attracted to a person apart of your standards. It's perfectly normal. 

If it was normal, you wouldn't be here. Find that person you like, but don't judge those that don't fit your standards. If you want to look for a Dodo egg that is your choice, but don't blame everybody else for your failure to find one.