Alter2Ego Posted June 16 Posted June 16 On 4/24/2024 at 4:08 AM, dimreepr said: Who thinks he's right and why. Dimreepr: Dawkins is wrong because his entire premise: "God, almost certainly does not exist," because it's "a persistent false belief held in the face of strong contradictory evidence" is wrong. Evidence for the existence of an Intelligent Designer aka Jehovah God is revealed in the creations around us and our fine-tuned universe. Dawkins has not presented any "strong contradictory evidence" that says otherwise. He is simply spouting his personal philosophy. "For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship, so that they are inexcusable." (Romans 1:20) Alter2Ego -1
Alter2Ego Posted June 16 Author Posted June 16 On 6/2/2024 at 6:34 PM, MSC said: Some have said that the universe appears to have been designed intelligently and this has been cited as an argument in favour of a divine creator. Arguments have gone something along the lines of "Take the complexity of the human eye, whether it came into being 6000 years ago or evolved over millions upon millions of years, it looks kind of like how we would design a camera." . . . . The Teleological argument has just never sat right with me due to this strange temporal bias at play within the minds of the religious and the spiritual. I'm open to hearing better arguments in favour of the existence of some kind of cosmic entity that actively cares about me as an individual but intelligent design just is not one of them. It would be like building a model of the golden gate bridge and then claiming the architect of golden gate bridge used your model. Unless you have a time machine it just doesn't make much sense. MSC: If anything, your OP actually supports the argument that there had to have been an Intelligent Designer aka Almighty God Jehovah. One of the worst examples you could have used to argue against a supernatural Intelligent Designer/God is the complexity of the eye. As stated by sources: "The human eye is brilliantly complicated, made up of a superb, interconnected system of approximately 40 individual subsystems. . . . There are approximately six to seven million cone cells. All of them are concentrated near the macula, the oval-shaped pigmented area in the centre of the retina. Additionally, there are three varieties of cone cells that are sensitive to different colours of light. Between them, they span the visual range of wavelengths of the electromagnetic spectrum (400–700 nm)" https://creation.com/complex-human-eye But, hark! Let's not forget about the even more complicated creation, the brain, which plays an important role along with the eye to produce vision: "After an image reaches the optic nerve, it travels along it to the visual cortex in the occipital lobe at the back of the brain. Using our eyes takes an incredible amount of brainpower. 20% of the brain is dedicated to visual processing, but it takes another 40% to help with vision in connection to meaning, motor functions, touch, and attention. Many times a second, the brain absorbs and processes a new set of visual data, and that’s how we perceive, understand, and react to motion." https://visionsource-opticalperspectives.com/2023/05/03/what-do-you-know-about-your-eyes-anatomy/ Now, if you want to claim that all of that happened at random/by itself, without the intervention of an intelligent being to guide the outcome, resulting in vision, suit yourself. In fact, you made it clear in the last paragraph of your OP that it is simply about your personal denials and the fact you don't want to accept the reality of a supernatural Intelligent Designer. You stated at line 1 of your final paragraph. "The Teleological argument has just never sat right with me." That's right. It's all about you and your personal philosophy. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18 -2
Alter2Ego Posted June 16 Author Posted June 16 18 minutes ago, exchemist said: You seem to be a hopeless case. It's hard to credit how stupid it is to quote religious scripture as evidence of the truth of the religion in question. Self-referential or what? exchemist: I am quoting scripture from Jehovah's inspired word, the Judeo-Christian Bible, for the benefit of people following in this thread who happen to believe in the Bible. You don't qualify as a Bible believer, obviously, so don't flatter yourself into thinking I was quoting scripture for people who insist in believing in Darwin's macroevolution myth. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18 21 minutes ago, Bufofrog said: It seems to me that our 'fine-tuned universe' is actually not conducive to life at all. So much so that there is only a thin shell around a single planet where life has managed to hold on as far as we know. There are over 5000 exoplanets that have been discovered and the overwhelming majority of them could not harbor life and most probably none of them contain life. Life on earth appears to be a lucky fluke. Bufofrog: Earth alone is conducive to life; it is not a "lucky fluke." That's the way Almighty God intended it to be. "As for the heavens, they belong to Jehovah, But the earth he has given to the sons of men." (Psalm 115:16) The other planets serve various purposes as part of our fine-tuned universe. Some of them support life on earth by protecting earth itself. Scientific evidence proves that. Alter2Ego _________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18 -2
Alter2Ego Posted June 16 Author Posted June 16 12 minutes ago, MSC said: Well done avoiding the meat of my argument. MSC: The "meat" of your argument actually provided support for the need of an Intelligent Designer. You should have stayed away from the argument about the complexity of the eye. Then to shoot yourself in the foot further, you used the watchmaker argument. Alter2Ego ________________ "That people may know that you, whose name is JEHOVAH, you alone are the Most High over all the earth." ~ Psalms 83:18 -1
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