dimreepr Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 10 hours ago, iNow said: And unless/until Biden steps down, we’re all just wish casting a wet dream A little to late for a reset, they're past the event horizon; even Trump has been holding his breath while the barrel slips over the falls. All that's left is to hope for survival... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordief Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Is Biden right to be casting "the elites" as a scapegoat -or ,better(?) a target? I mean of course he is right that the elites do have too much power and often their goals run contrary to the "working classes" (those who have to work to make ends meet) but is he correct to bring up a "topic" that has been oafishly , surprisingly and profitably exploited by his and our opponent? I listened to his speech and it was the first time that I heard him use the phrase "the elites" I think getting animated makes him come across much better(still can't bring myself to watch the debate) but can he keep that up ?Is it fair to ask? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 51 minutes ago, geordief said: I think getting animated makes him come across much better(still can't bring myself to watch the debate) but can he keep that up ?Is it fair to ask? I don't think it matters anymore. With the wildfire spread of Biden-can't-hack-it opinion, confidence in both the party and the candidate have plunged. At this point, the only hope of averting catastrophe is for the Democrats to select a new ticket, very, very quickly, get solidly behind it, and campaign for all they're worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordief Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 9 minutes ago, Peterkin said: I don't think it matters anymore. With the wildfire spread of Biden-can't-hack-it opinion, confidence in both the party and the candidate have plunged. At this point, the only hope of averting catastrophe is for the Democrats to select a new ticket, very, very quickly, get solidly behind it, and campaign for all they're worth. Or for Biden to change their minds (very quickly). Don't know why he does not go beyond what is necessary in sharing his medical details and make a virtue of what is now a necessity. I suppose we are reliant on his close (maybe not too close) associates to get a feel for things if he is not being completely open about any condition he may or may not have(aside from projecting 4 or 5 years into the future) It is also my suspicion that any kind of partial resolution to the Gaza situation may be a game changer regardless of everything else as I see him as being blackmailed by those who would withhold their vote for the Dems until such time as things there are ordered to their pov. 1 hour ago, geordief said: Is it fair to ask? I meant to say "Is it fair to ask that of him?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 6 minutes ago, geordief said: I meant to say "Is it fair to ask that of him?" Yes, that's what I assumed you meant. And, no, it probably isn't. The man is obviously tired most of the time. People have less energy as they age, have to pace themselves in every effort (I speak from experience) and US political campaigns are hectic enough to exhaust anyone, even it they were doing it full time, not in addition to running a country in perilous times with a recalcitrant elected body. I like and respect Mr. Biden, but I don't think he can bounce back from this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 40 minutes ago, geordief said: Don't know why he does not go beyond what is necessary in sharing his medical details and make a virtue of what is now a necessity. Earlier I made a point to check to see if anyone here knew why presidents and their doctors haven't ever been bound to sharing their medical information with the public. The answer is pretty simple. So presidents aren't discouraged from seeking out medical attention for either physical or mental health reasons, due to the unfair stigmatisation of those with disabilities or just weird views on who can or can't serve in the oval office based on genetic information. This is why FDR made attempts to conceal the fact that he was paralysed from the waist down. He literally didn't trust the electorate to have any faith in a man in a wheelchair. In Bidens case, the lack of transparency could very well be to hide some aspect of his health data with the public that most reasonable people wouldn't see as something that makes someone unfit for office, like a past history with depression that isn't current, however, a past history of depression is the sort of ammo any political opponent would use and some voters would believe this makes someone unfit to be president. So this is why the presidents expectation of privacy in regards to medical data is left intact. It wouldn't do for a president to be discouraged from seeking medical aid for both simple and complex issues. You really have to put yourself in the mind of different types of voters to see why this is the case. "Oh the president has boils on his rear? No person chosen by god to lead would have boils on their rear. You've lost my vote." Or "Oh I see Biden suffered from a bout of depressipn 40 years ago, what if he gets depressed again and kills himself while in office? Can't vote for him." So there are lots of reasons why a president might not disclose their medical info really. From benign to serious. Hell there is even an incentive not to give out allergy information to not give any workable info to would be presidential assassins. Fortunately, the physician to the president is required to give general health updates to the VP and the cabinet if they are at all concerned. This is why I'm of the opinion that if the democrats want to sensibly and reasonably practice caution, they should leave this in the hands of the VP and Bidens cabinet. The way I see it, if Biden wasn't fit to run, he wouldn't be fit to finish out his term either. If the unfair pressure gets too much and he decides to bow out; I think the best way to make that strategy work, would be to give Harris the reins, make it her ticket, (she is polling better now that people are more seriously considering this scenario, to their own probable detriment) and pick whomever the next best polling willing Democrat is, for VP. That to me is just a hypothetical. I still think ditching biden is shooting themselves in the foot and nobody has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Biden isn't fit for office because the office is still running just fine. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 4 hours ago, geordief said: Is Biden right to be casting "the elites" as a scapegoat -or ,better(?) a target? No. And it’s stupid politics, too. This is a time when he needs to bring people over to his side, especially those with influence snd power. It also suggests that he’s being too isolated and not getting the full truth from his inner circle. Everyone is concerned about his age and have been for years, not just “elites.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 4 hours ago, iNow said: No. And it’s stupid politics, too. This is a time when he needs to bring people over to his side, especially those with influence snd power. It also suggests that he’s being too isolated and not getting the full truth from his inner circle. Everyone is concerned about his age and have been for years, not just “elites.” Could be a “get tough” tactic, sending a message. I wonder if the house minority leader will be visiting with his colleagues, telling them they are causing damage, and now is the time for unity. And that if they don’t fall in line, they will be shunned when Biden wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 43 minutes ago, swansont said: And that if they don’t fall in line, they will be shunned when Biden wins. And more so if he loses. This is the usual elitest DNC strategy that has played out ad nauseum that everyone is sick of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 9 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said: This is the usual elitest DNC strategy that has played out ad nauseum I have several different ideas about what this comment might mean, but unsure which is accurate. Will you please expand a bit so we may better understand what you mean by it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 (edited) 3 hours ago, iNow said: I have several different ideas about what this comment might mean, but unsure which is accurate. Will you please expand a bit so we may better understand what you mean by it? The DNC has a track record of naming, blaming, and shaming Democrats who don't fall in line with their preferred policy positions. Take the Squad and Bernie Sanders as a perfect example. They back totally uninspiring candidates and then pour wrath on progressive democrats when they don't win. Edited July 14 by Alex_Krycek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 6 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said: The DNC has a track record of naming, blaming, and shaming Democrats who don't fall in line with their preferred policy positions. Take the Squad and Bernie Sanders as a perfect example. They back totally uninspiring candidates and then pour wrath on progressive democrats when they don't win. Perfect? Bernie's not a Democrat. 10 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said: And more so if he loses. This is the usual elitest DNC strategy that has played out ad nauseum that everyone is sick of. You speak for everyone? Just more hyperbolic propaganda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 13 minutes ago, swansont said: Perfect? Bernie's not a Democrat. Incorrect. He's run as a Democrat numerous times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders_2020_presidential_campaign 13 minutes ago, swansont said: You speak for everyone? Just more hyperbolic propaganda These are my views, just like everyone else has their own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, Alex_Krycek said: These are my views, just like everyone else has their own. Most of your views are straight up lies though... do you get reprimanded by your superiors in Russia when people figure out you're a paid troll? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 1 minute ago, MSC said: Most of your views are straight up lies though... do you get reprimanded by your superiors in Russia when people figure out you're a paid troll? Let's not stoop to this level of name calling. I'm a "paid Russian troll" now? Is this how you respond to everyone who has a different viewpoints than yours? I'm interested in discussing the thread, not getting into personal bickering. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 19 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said: Let's not stoop to this level of name calling. Calling a lie a lie is hardly namecalling. 19 minutes ago, Alex_Krycek said: I'm a "paid Russian troll" now? Is this how you respond to everyone who has a different viewpoints than yours? Nope. I've just been watching how you speak to folk, what views you share, what info you cherry pick and which of others points you choose to respond to. Yeah the Russian troll thing is speculation on my part but what isn't speculation is the accusation that you're conversing in bad faith by claiming to support one thing while only using talking points that originate in Russian propaganda about the state of affairs of American politics. It was really the antifa stuff that gave it away for me. No self respecting democrat or moderate would claim being anti-fascist makes you a member of a terrorist organisation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex_Krycek Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 14 minutes ago, MSC said: Calling a lie a lie is hardly namecalling. Unless it's someone else's difference of opinion, which you seem to have trouble with. 14 minutes ago, MSC said: Nope. I've just been watching how you speak to folk, what views you share, what info you cherry pick and which of others points you choose to respond to. Yeah the Russian troll thing is speculation on my part but what isn't speculation is the accusation that you're conversing in bad faith by claiming to support one thing while only using talking points that originate in Russian propaganda about the state of affairs of American politics. It was really the antifa stuff that gave it away for me. Yep, you've got it all figured out, that's for sure. 14 minutes ago, MSC said: No self respecting democrat or moderate would claim being anti-fascist makes you a member of a terrorist organisation. There's a difference between being "anti-facist" and a member of ANTIFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 8 hours ago, Alex_Krycek said: The DNC has a track record of naming, blaming, and shaming Democrats who don't fall in line with their preferred policy positions. Are you suggesting this is isolated to the DNC, and not the way all political organizations exercise power? Are you suggesting the DNC is worse than others? Just a few weeks ago, Larry Hogan merely suggested we ought to support the law and decisions from citizen juries and was pilloried by the RNC who pulled all funding and amplified attacks by rabid Trump supporters, for example. Without much effort, I could easily find similar responses from the right demanding full fealty and 100% loyalty not just that week or month, but that day. You might consider unnarrowing your view a bit. Or, do you perhaps believe Liz Cheney and Mitt Romney are being supported for speaking authentically? Mostly trying to determine whether you’re deluded, disninformative, or just disinterested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 There might be a certain amount of flack that comes with calling yourself Alex Krycek, given that famous character's tending to switching allegiances and peddling disinformation (and being Russian-American, with attached conspiracies). That said, I have no reason to believe @Alex_Krycek 's opinions are not his own. I would vote for deep breaths all around and dropping the ad hommies. I find America's two party system fairly toxic, with both tending to require their members to wear tight ideological corsets. I think Dems have done better at letting new ideas percolate upward, which is why Independents like Bernie will caucus with them. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Holy backflipping Jesus on a trampoline! Well I can now definitely assert that Biden cannot win the election! 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 Am reminded of “Be careful of what you wish for, for you will surely get it” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 True, there is some sober reflection called for. I have been wishing Harris could move to the top of the ticket, so I guess that has moved a notch closer. I hope this brings some party unity and juices some swing voters and the sit-this-one-out camp. Harris has been polling well the past week, so it will heartening if that's a sign of some real momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordief Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 23 minutes ago, TheVat said: Holy backflipping Jesus on a trampoline! Well I can now definitely assert that Biden cannot win the election! 😀 I think the better of him now(was starting to have doubts and worries) I couldn't see him doing a proper job into his mid 80s as we could see that mortality was settling on him. 2 minutes ago, TheVat said: True, there is some sober reflection called for. I have been wishing Harris could move to the top of the ticket, so I guess that has moved a notch closer. I hope this brings some party unity and juices some swing voters and the sit-this-one-out camp. Harris has been polling well the past week, so it will heartening if that's a sign of some real momentum. Is Gaza still the key? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 I do think N Pelosi was putting a lot of pressure on him to bow out. But Pelosi seems to want a run--off to pick the nominee, not simply nominating K Harris. I didn't really think he could win this time around and in this political climate, but I felt his slide in the polls wasn't so much gains for D Trump, rather losses for J Biden amid Republican, and Democrat, criticism of his mental health. And I'm not sure any other nominee, including K Harris, can do any better. Democracy in the US is between a hard place and a rock. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted July 21 Share Posted July 21 12 minutes ago, MigL said: Democracy in the US is between a hard place and a rock. Believe you meant btw a MAGA place and Kid Rock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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