So can Biden have Trump officially assassinated now or officially refuse to transfer power?

[MSC]

With the Supreme court deciding that checks and balances don't work unless you can avoid checks and balances... Can Biden just... take care of TFG now? But you know... officially? A blacked out CIA hit with the presidential seal on the heavily redacted documents should count right? National security and whatnot.

Also do we all know where this is going now? Once the lower courts rerule and defines the difference between an official and a private act, Trumps legal team is just gonna cry foul on that one too and demand the Supreme court delivers it's own definitions and rulings on that also, after it sits in the damn docket until it has at least an inch or so of dust on the damn thing and it requires a professional museum level document restoration treatment.  

Honestly if this Hitleruesque slow coup the Republicans are encouraging doesn't go their way and they lose, the democrats when next in majority will stack that court and rebalance it ASAP. They should really quit while they are ahead. 

Personally, I'm of the opinion that their has to be some recognition within the highest offices of all the branches of government of the strict need for term limits on the basis that incredible power corrupts incredibly well. Presidents, speakers, SCJs, two terms. No more than that. Enough is enough, it's true of the presidency and at this point a logical move applied in one way, inconsistently applied in the same way again for the same scenario, is madness. It's like watching a toddler put the square peg into the square hole one time and then failing to do it again for weeks. Like come on? You had this?! What the hell happened? Seriously though, why was it never implemented before once they implemented term limits for presidents? Seems like just a half complete job. 

[StringJunky]

I think it's a bit daft for the GOP and SC majority to show their devious hand before the election and actually winning.

[Peterkin]

58 minutes ago, MSC said:

Can Biden just... take care of TFG now?

He has to do it himself - his aides and bodyguard don't have immunity.

Still, he has time to travel the country, ostensibly campaigning, and take a few side-trips with an automatic.

It just doesn't quite seem to be in character somehow.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, MSC said:

Can Biden just... take care of TFG now? But you know... officially

They always could, but chose not to for fear of consequences and breaking of historical norms. They still can, but now with a reasonable expectation that there won’t be any consequences. 

Any hit team who refuses on principle or bc it breaks some law will be pushed aside until a different team is found and agrees to proceed as ordered by the supreme ayatollah commander, his excellency the exhalted king in chief of the USA that the SCOTUS has just created. 

Edited July 3 by iNow

[MigL]

America, once the shining example of, and the bastion of democracy, is quickly spiraling down the toilet.
So much for your checks and balances ...

[CharonY]

I think folks really meant cheques and account balances. A nice vacation here, some hush money there. 

[StringJunky]

In Trump We Trust.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

democracy, is quickly spiraling down the toilet.

Getting the masses to believe this has been the central project of Russia and China and a handful of others for many years now. Their investments are apparently seeing returns. The idea that democracy doesn’t work is finding traction 

[CharonY]

44 minutes ago, iNow said:

Getting the masses to believe this has been the central project of Russia and China and a handful of others for many years now. Their investments are apparently seeing returns. The idea that democracy doesn’t work is finding traction 

To be fair, the voters themselves are doing quite a bit of heavy lifting here.

[iNow]

7 hours ago, CharonY said:

To be fair, the voters themselves are doing quite a bit of heavy lifting here.

Shocking, isn’t it, that so many who feel climate change is a hoax, or that wearing masks during a pandemic is tyranny, or that peaceful protests against police killings of black citizens need to be put down with police and dogs… would so easily fall victim to highly coordinated consistent feeds of propaganda 

[Peterkin]

10 hours ago, MigL said:

America, once the shining example of, and the bastion of democracy, is quickly spiraling down the toilet.

The rest of the world is not far behind. Guess who's new president of the EU? Pretty much a bedfellowship made in heaven.

[TheVat]

11 hours ago, MSC said:

With the Supreme court deciding that checks and balances don't work unless you can avoid checks and balances... Can Biden just... take care of TFG now? But you know... officially? A blacked out CIA hit with the presidential seal on the heavily redacted documents should count right? National security and whatnot.

He can't, because the armed forces and intelligence services are (unlike him) constrained by the law.  What he would have to do is either develop mad sniper skills and a cadre of Secret Service agents willing to get him to his best firing position, or somehow peel off enough of the military into an rogue team to replace the Constitutional republic with a junta.  I would be the last person to say it can't happen here but I suspect it would be more difficult than some of the doomscrolling would suggest.

 

10 hours ago, MigL said:

America, once the shining example of, and the bastion of democracy, is quickly spiraling down the toilet.
So much for your checks and balances ...

I think there's a chance that another TFG administration (I guess he'd then be TPG) would result in a bolstering of those C&Bs.  I know the "nearly break it in order to fix it" approach can be horrible, but it might be the only way.

[MigL]

11 minutes ago, TheVat said:

that another TFG administration (I guess he'd then be TPG)

If TFG stands forThat Fuc*ing Goof, what does TPG stand for ?

13 minutes ago, TheVat said:

I know the "nearly break it in order to fix it" approach can be horrible, but it might be the only way

I think D Trump would take the Humpty Dumpty approach; and 'all the king's horses and all the king's men' wouldn't be able to fix it again. He's learned that 'approach' from his buddies/idols V Putin and KJU.

[MSC]

It occurs to me; what the hell happened to high crimes and misdemeanors? Literally a whole set of crimes that can only be carried out by people in a position of authority and now Trump just can't be charged with any of them? 

I guess I'm still reeling from the court decision and still struggling to come to terms with this ridiculous notion the Supreme court tried to put in everyones head about protecting future presidents from criminal prosecution, not whether or not a crime was actually committed. As far as I am concerned, if every subsequent president is stupid enough to use their position to commit crimes then yeah, I do want each and every single one of them brought to justice. What does more damage? Replacing the boss every few years( which we do anyway!) or everytime they do something wrong, or having a boss who flouts the law and is harming the people he swore to help?

Why was simple truth as a legal concept so far from the doors of the court? How can they so stupidly and brazenly turn into a clearly political entity and not a judicial one in front of everyone rejecting call after call to recuse and destroying the credibility of the court and for what? Trump? Fascism? This idea that only a select group must be allowed to vote for democracy to thrive? What was it for?

12 hours ago, MigL said:

TPG

That Piggy guy? I don't know. Also curious. 

[iNow]

9 minutes ago, MSC said:

what the hell happened to high crimes and misdemeanors?

That’s for impeachment, which was done to Trump twice, but his cultish party let him off the hook both times. Many like Mitch McConnell encouraged that so convictions could be brought instead in a court of law. Now, we see SCOTUS declaring presidents to be above those laws and Trumps team trying to dismiss cases regarding actions he took even before becoming president. 

[TheVat]

12 hours ago, MSC said:

That Piggy guy? I don't know. Also curious. 

TFG is a Net initialism which stands for The Former Guy.  If TFG were reelected then he would be TPG, The Present Guy.  

YMMV

12 hours ago, iNow said:

That’s for impeachment, which was done to Trump twice, but his cultish party let him off the hook both times. Many like Mitch McConnell encouraged that so convictions could be brought instead in a court of law. Now, we see SCOTUS declaring presidents to be above those laws and Trumps team trying to dismiss cases regarding actions he took even before becoming president. 

I feel there's a correlation between the length of time someone gets away with being above the law and the probability they get put up on a meathook Mussolini-style.  (the depiction of this at Madame Tussaud's in London, which I saw when I was around 20, was quite vivid, though I thought there should have been flies swarming to make it more realistic)

[MSC]

10 hours ago, TheVat said:

feel there's a correlation between the length of time someone gets away with being above the law and the probability they get put up on a meathook Mussolini-style.  (the depiction of this at Madame Tussaud's in London, which I saw when I was around 20, was quite vivid, though I thought there should have been flies swarming to make it more realistic

I mean I've overheard a few older folks now all saying something along the lines of "If he wins a second term, I'm old as shit, would probably die before a trial or just not be in prison very long.... might have to take one for the team." So honestly if he keeps escaping legal consequences there may be a line of the old and terminally ill ready to step in and take care of the problem for us... hey, some of y'all are also old... It's just a suggestion, I know nothing. 

Anyone want to be a successful Von Stauffenberg? 

[StringJunky]

16 hours ago, TheVat said:

I feel there's a correlation between the length of time someone gets away with being above the law and the probability they get put up on a meathook Mussolini-style.  (the depiction of this at Madame Tussaud's in London, which I saw when I was around 20, was quite vivid, though I thought there should have been flies swarming to make it more realistic)

Never seen any images before. Just looked. Yes, they didn't mess about, did they?

[iNow]

On 7/3/2024 at 8:43 AM, TheVat said:

the armed forces and intelligence services are (unlike him) constrained by the law.

The President ordering the hit could just pardon them

[ImplicitDemands]

Yes because we're killing petty white collar criminals like Nixon accused of literally nothing tangible. 

If you drive to fast on the wrong side of the road Biden will have you, MSC, kilt. 

[TheVat]

42 minutes ago, iNow said:

The President ordering the hit could just pardon them

If it reached that point without resulting in impeachment then seems like the POTUS would have functionally achieved a junta.  Maybe I'm unduly optimistic today but I feel such an order would have a really tough time moving through the chain of command.  Armed Forces officers do not take an oath of allegiance to the POTUS, but rather to the Constitution.  What is disturbing about this conversation is the possibility we will find out just how far a POTUS can go along these lines.

[iNow]

33 minutes ago, TheVat said:

What is disturbing about this conversation is the possibility we will find out just how far a POTUS can go along these lines

And also whether any mechanism exists to realistically impede or stop them. 

[zapatos]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

The President ordering the hit could just pardon them

As the crime of murder is typically a state crime I don't believe the President could pardon the executioner.

[iNow]

13 minutes ago, zapatos said:

As the crime of murder is typically a state crime I don't believe the President could pardon the executioner.

That thought crossed my mind.

My own conclusion is that it would more likely be classed as an assassination instead of a murder, there would be no mens rea (criminal intent) which is required for murder charges, and thus such an act would fall under federal purview and allow for an offer of clemency from the president. 

But who the hell knows? These are decidedly uncharted waters into which Trumps justices have thrown us.

[MSC]

On 7/5/2024 at 5:37 PM, ImplicitDemands said:

Yes because we're killing petty white collar criminals like Nixon accused of literally nothing tangible. 

If you drive to fast on the wrong side of the road Biden will have you, MSC, kilt. 

Wait so if I want Biden to gift me a kilt all I need to do is drive on the wrong side of the road?! I'm Scottish so you're really just making it sound like I'm one quick traffic infraction away from a free kilt.

Also is fast a place? I've always wanted to go to fast. I've been to two places called Belfast but never just been to fast. Should I go there too?