Shots fired at Trump rally in Pennsylvania

[exchemist]

44 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

That can be muted if the Project 25 manifesto is kept front and centre up to the election.

Let's hope. But half the country will probably think it just shows the Democrats too descending into conspiracy land, documentary evidence notwithstanding.

For me as an outside observer, one of the most depressing features of the current US political scene is the degree to which Trump and the far right media have succeeded in making many people doubt the reliability of "mainstream" (i.e. professional) news sources, the idea presumably being that they should turn instead to The Leader and put their trust in him.  

I confess I am deeply depressed by what is unfolding. Trump has already undermined faith in the independence of the judiciary, he has been undermining faith in the news media, he has undermined faith in the democratic election process, he makes coded calls for violence, he relentlessly exploits and increases division in the country......and he faces, as a political opponent, an old man who seems to be losing his faculties (cf. Hindenburg).  We saw all these elements in Europe last century. History never repeats itself exactly, but I am fearful. There is a risk people think this is just being alarmist, but that's what people thought in Germany in the 1930s too. 

[Peterkin]

1 hour ago, exchemist said:

He'll be able to pose as courageous and virile (compared to his opponent) , win sympathy, channelling JFK, and persuade another slice of the electorate that there are dark forces trying to stop him by fair means or foul.  

They've already printed the teeshirts. You'd almost have to wonder if the incident was entirely unexpected. I further wonder how much income tax the tariff on them will replace. 

I'm not at all convinced he was shot. That little nick could be from a splinter of podium or glass. I seem to recall an Agatha Christie plot about a shot in the dark and a nick on the putative target's ear. (As long as we're considering conspiracy theories.... )

Edited July 14 by Peterkin

[StringJunky]

39 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Let's hope. But half the country will probably think it just shows the Democrats too descending into conspiracy land, documentary evidence notwithstanding.

For me as an outside observer, one of the most depressing features of the current US political scene is the degree to which Trump and the far right media have succeeded in making many people doubt the reliability of "mainstream" (i.e. professional) news sources, the idea presumably being that they should turn instead to The Leader and put their trust in him.  

I confess I am deeply depressed by what is unfolding. Trump has already undermined faith in the independence of the judiciary, he has been undermining faith in the news media, he has undermined faith in the democratic election process, he makes coded calls for violence, he relentlessly exploits and increases division in the country......and he faces, as a political opponent, an old man who seems to be losing his faculties (cf. Hindenburg).  We saw all these elements in Europe last century. History never repeats itself exactly, but I am fearful. There is a risk people think this is just being alarmist, but that's what people thought in Germany in the 1930s too. 

I am in concordance with your thoughts. Fascism is on the rise. It's in full swing in Israel as well. Hungary. France, also, if Marine La Pen had won. This trend is mostly a reaction to a rate of migration that disturbs the populations of target countries, I think. People are just going to have to get used to a major effect of climate change. People are going to move away from much of the equator to the north as resources dwindle because of it. The anti-immigrant sentiments will only get louder.  I don't know the solution. Perhaps nature will just do what it will. It's not going to be pretty.

Edited July 14 by StringJunky

[MSC]

2 hours ago, exchemist said:

History never repeats itself exactly, but I am fearful. There is a risk people think this is just being alarmist, but that's what people thought in Germany in the 1930s too. 

Indeed, Mark Twain put it best by saying;

Quote

History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

 

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

I am in concordance with your thoughts. Fascism is on the rise. It's in full swing in Israel as well. Hungary. France, also, if Marine La Pen had won. This trend is mostly a reaction to a rate of migration that disturbs the populations of target countries, I think. People are just going to have to get used to a major effect of climate change. People are going to move away from much of the equator to the north as resources dwindle because of it. The anti-immigrant sentiments will only get louder.  I don't know the solution. Perhaps nature will just do what it will. It's not going to be pretty.

I fear you're right. We aren't even close to the worst of it either. Fleeing to the north won't do any good when supplies dwindle and prices skyrocket and as the climate gets worse, more crops are going to start failing. Farming is hard work as it is with the elements already fighting you in a number of ways in an ideal climate. 

Fascists thrive on peoples fear, so as our existential fears grow, so too does their power over others. 

I admit to feeling a bit giddy when the assassination news first released... now I just wish they hadn't bothered trying, it's just made a bad situation worse. 

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

They've already printed the teeshirts. You'd almost have to wonder if the incident was entirely unexpected. I further wonder how much income tax the tariff on them will replace. 

I'm not at all convinced he was shot. That little nick could be from a splinter of podium or glass. I seem to recall an Agatha Christie plot about a shot in the dark and a nick on the putative target's ear. (As long as we're considering conspiracy theories....

When dealing with people like Trump; it wouldn't surprise me but I'd never assume it without proof. Either the timing was too perfect and it's some kind of false flag but more likely is that Trump is just a master at using situations like these to his own benefit.

[Peterkin]

37 minutes ago, MSC said:

Either the timing was too perfect and it's some kind of false flag but more likely is that Trump is just a master at using situations like these to his own benefit.

I wasn't assuming; just wondering. I may not be the only one whose mind it crossed.

Anyway I'll go with the opportunist theory. He riles up all his disgruntled, not overly bright, gun-totin'  supporters and then one of them gets disillusioned (maybe he punched out a Democrat and Trump didn't pay his legal costs like he promised) or pissed-off at one of his recent crimes or lies. Anything can happen, and everything that happens can be misrepresented. 

[Externet]

Please delete if improper to post.  The same medicine applied.

[TheVat]

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

For me as an outside observer, one of the most depressing features of the current US political scene is the degree to which Trump and the far right media have succeeded in making many people doubt the reliability of "mainstream" (i.e. professional) news sources, the idea presumably being that they should turn instead to The Leader and put their trust in him.  

This is the current toxic form that populism assumes here.  Pathological liars who promise to protect you from all the lies.

One reason I am glad he survived is that it preserves the chance that more of his lies can be exposed in a courtroom.  Or, in Trumpian fashion, by his own future verbal slips ("running his mouth" as they call it where I grew up).  If the bullet had taken him out, some of those lies would be buried with him.  And some will, I am sure.  

5 hours ago, Peterkin said:

not at all convinced he was shot. That little nick could be from a splinter of podium or glass. I seem to recall an Agatha Christie plot about a shot in the dark and a nick on the putative target's ear.

I find it probable the shooter was just another American youth gone crazy, the standard quiet loner who saw opportunity in a big political rally coming to his little town for him to go out in a dramatic way as a mass shooter.  Firing wildly, no particular target. Secret Service snipers on a nearby roof to ensure his suicide would go smoothly.  

[Externet]

6 hours ago, Peterkin said:

I'm not at all convinced he was shot. That little nick could be from a splinter of podium or glass.

Picture of the bullet trajectory...

[swansont]

I don’t see an image.

[iNow]

Same

[Peterkin]

2 hours ago, Externet said:

Picture of the bullet trajectory...

Sorry, can't. It was just a question anyway. I don't really care if the disaffected fan wanted him dead, wanted somebody else dead or wanted himself dramatically dead - the poor demented kid played into Trump's hands, and for that, I will not easily forgive him.

[iNow]

Biden addressed the nation and the world from the Oval tonight, another thing we’d never see his opponent do were the roles reversed

 

 

[Peterkin]

Good. He looks all right, and got in a couple of digs at the violence Trump has incited without making a meal of them. Nicely balanced.

[Alex_Krycek]

8 hours ago, TheVat said:

 

I find it probable the shooter was just another American youth gone crazy, the standard quiet loner who saw opportunity in a big political rally coming to his little town for him to go out in a dramatic way as a mass shooter.  

100%, this is my take. 

The guy was a registered Republican with very little social media presence.  According to classmates he was bullied relentlessly throughout high school, and then got into firearms and other weaponry online as he continued to self-isolate.    

I do think he was attempting get Trump though, for whatever reason.  Fame, notoriety, some belief that was festering that he didn't articulate.  Perhaps it was to strike back at the type of people who had mistreated him in that small town for so long.  No manifestos or screed found yet, and I doubt they will be found.

But all in all, it's essentially just another mass shooting in America, one that happened to be in a more publicized setting, thus meaning has been placed upon his actions which might not have truly been there.  

[exchemist]

15 hours ago, swansont said:

Has that ever worked before?

Reagan, in 1981,  got quite a poll bounce after the assassination attempt, I understand, though admittedly it subsequently faded.

But whether it has worked before is not the sole criterion for assessing its likely effect this time. So far as I am aware the United States has never before been in the grip of a presidential personality cult like Trump. A personality cult works on emotion and the inculcation of a tribal sense of loyalty. One does not have to be a genius to see how those can be turned to advantage by an incident like this.  

[StringJunky]

15 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Reagan, in 1981,  got quite a poll bounce after the assassination attempt, I understand, though admittedly it subsequently faded.

But whether it has worked before is not the sole criterion for assessing its likely effect this time. So far as I am aware the United States has never before been in the grip of a presidential personality cult like Trump. A personality cult works on emotion and the inculcation of a tribal sense of loyalty. One does not have to be a genius to see how those can be turned to advantage by an incident like this.  

We can be grateful it happened now and not near the election. I'm fairly sure other stuff and time itself will make it just another memory. A week is a long time in politics.

[exchemist]

18 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

We can be grateful it happened now and not near the election. I'm fairly sure other stuff and time itself will make it just another memory. A week is a long time in politics.

Yes, we can hope - hope - he gets a short-term bounce in support that fades by November. The Trumpies are of course making hay with it, insinuating Biden was behind it, claiming Trump was saved from otherwise certain death by Almighdy Gaaad, etc, etc. But there is hope, I suppose, that such swivel-eyed lunacy is mainly preaching to the converted and won't sway the swing voters much.  

Fascinating, in a hideous way, to see how Trump is suggesting it is the will of God (!) that he, a known sex pest and crook, should be elected. Elmer Gantry on steroids. 

[toucana]

The BBC News channel had a reporter live on site at the Trump rally in Butler Pennsylvania when the firing began. His name is Garry O’Donoghue and he has been blind since the age of 8. This is a precis of his remarkable reporting of the event:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzRnEzesdNk

[swansont]

2 hours ago, exchemist said:

Reagan, in 1981,  got quite a poll bounce after the assassination attempt, I understand, though admittedly it subsequently faded.

And he wasn’t running for reelection. Teddy Roosevelt lost his attempt to get nominated after getting shot. Ford and Carter lost their reelection bids after assassination attempts.

It’s just sheer speculation how this will play out, and we’re not doing it in this thread. 

 

[Externet]

11 hours ago, swansont said:

I don’t see an image.

Really ?  Does anyone see it ?  Is everyone not seeing it posted ?  Seems Peterkin cannot either.  The 'same medicine' or the 'trajectory' or both images ? 😳

Please someone tell...

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, swansont said:

And he wasn’t running for reelection. Teddy Roosevelt lost his attempt to get nominated after getting shot. Ford and Carter lost their reelection bids after assassination attempts.

It’s just sheer speculation how this will play out, and we’re not doing it in this thread. 

 

As you wish, Bwana. 

[iNow]

He'll get the full Lazarus treatment this week at the GOP convention, and the religious undertones will be significant (bc how ELSE other than a cloud surfing deity could he have possibly have been missed by a kid who used to be called a "laughably bad shot" when he was in school?)

[Peterkin]

42 minutes ago, Externet said:

Is everyone not seeing it posted ?  Seems Peterkin cannot either. 

Link's broken. No images.

38 minutes ago, iNow said:

He'll get the full Lazarus treatment this week at the GOP convention, and the religious undertones will be significant (bc how ELSE other than a cloud surfing deity could he have possibly have been missed by a kid who used to be called a "laughably bad shot" when he was in school?)

And there will be no religious comparison to the numerous failed assassination attempts - just Lincoln and Kennedy (but not Garfield and McKinley), whom God apparently considered less worth saving than Trump, though he may have stepped in for Reagan.

It's a culture in which problems have always been solved with guns, but this is not the time to discuss kids and guns; this is a time for thoughts and prayers. 

Edited July 15 by Peterkin

[Externet]

Was not a link but a inserted image.   Trying a screenshot:

And 'the same medicine' image as screenshot :

(graphic image removed by mod)

[TheVat]

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

So far as I am aware the United States has never before been in the grip of a presidential personality cult like Trump. A personality cult works on emotion and the inculcation of a tribal sense of loyalty.

John F Kennedy.  "Camelot."  Very much a personality cult.  

Agree with your definition.  It is populism, but stripped of reason and any true devotion to the people on the leader's part.