petroleum is not only for fuel

[JohnDBarrow]

What could be used in its place entirely for the lubrication of automobiles (presumably electric) and other machinery? How will we ever lubricate things like door hinges, locks, motor bearings, guns, sewing machines and fishing reels whenever crude oil becomes available no more for man's use someday? 

What can be used in place of petroleum products for medicine? Is there a good non-petroleum alternative to Vaseline petroleum jelly? 

In 1981, Mr. Thompson, my junior high school English teacher in Woodside, California lectured in class that man should find petroleum alternatives for powering automobiles even way back then. He said the remainder of crude oil in the earth (that man could feasibly harvest) should be reserved for lubrication purposes. 

Edited July 20 by JohnDBarrow

[swansont]

10 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

What could be used in its place entirely for the lubrication of automobiles (presumably electric) and other machinery? How will we ever lubricate things like door hinges, locks, motor bearings, guns, sewing machines and fishing reels whenever crude oil becomes available no more for man's use someday? 

Use synthetic oils?

Your doomsday framing is getting tiresome.

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, JohnDBarrow said:

In 1981, Mr. Thompson, my junior high school English teacher in Woodside, California lectured in class that man should find petroleum alternatives for powering automobiles even way back then. He said the remainder of crude oil in the earth (that man could feasibly harvest) should be reserved for lubrication purposes. 

If you are going to base your oil concerns on what junior high school teachers said over 40 years ago, the least you could do is cite a junior high science teacher.

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

What could be used in its place entirely for the lubrication of automobiles (presumably electric) and other machinery? How will we ever lubricate things like door hinges, locks, motor bearings, guns, sewing machines and fishing reels whenever crude oil becomes available no more for man's use someday? 

What can be used in place of petroleum products for medicine? Is there a good non-petroleum alternative to Vaseline petroleum jelly? 

In 1981, Mr. Thompson, my junior high school English teacher in Woodside, California lectured in class that man should find petroleum alternatives for powering automobiles even way back then. He said the remainder of crude oil in the earth (that man could feasibly harvest) should be reserved for lubrication purposes. 

We will probably continue to use oil or gas for lubricants  (lubricants are already made from gas via gas-to-liquids synthesis today)  and petrochemicals for another century at least. But as that does not involve CO2 emission, that’s OK. 

[JohnDBarrow]

I meant to say HIGH SCHOOL teacher for my JUNIOR year, 11th grade. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Mr. Saint, my physics teacher in 1980, claimed in class that hydrogen-powered automobiles would be used someday. 

 

I was just curious as to what in THEORY could be used in place of petroleum products altogether for the purposes of machine lubrication and medicine. 

It is not a doomsday prediction on my part. I don't see how man will be able to continue to use crude oil on planet Earth for any purposes much longer unless he soon reduces crude oil use to strictly non-fuel purposes as oil for lubrication and medicine.  There might be enough crude oil left for man to harvest for lubrication and medicine only for many thousands of years to come if not until the day the sun burns out. 

 

I am concerned about man's ability to continue to function on planet Earth with the availbilty of machinery (in terms of both lubrication and energy for the said machinery) until: he becomes extinct altogether, the planet Earth is ended by nature (or man himself) as a place for man to even inhabit, the sun burns out, man somehow moves to some other habitible planet to possibly screw up as he did Earth, whichever comes first.  

 

Does anybody here predict how much longer the planet Earth will even be habitable for the human species?  I read somewhere that sun still has about another 5 billion years left. Perhaps, man will have evolved into something else before then. 

Edited July 20 by JohnDBarrow

[Sensei]

Oil has some uses besides being a fuel, such as people making plastic from it.

Plastics can be produced from a variety of sources, for example, thermal decomposition of bioethanol (i.e. ethanol from fermentation of plants) creates ethylene, and then polyethylene or other compounds can be created from it. The question is at what cost. Land used to grow crops for bioethanol is not used for food production, which increases its cost.

There are attempts to directly create ethanol from air https://www.google.com/search?q=ethanol+from+air+produiction

4 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

hat could be used in its place entirely for the lubrication of automobiles (presumably electric) and other machinery? How will we ever lubricate things like door hinges, locks, motor bearings, guns, sewing machines and fishing reels whenever crude oil becomes available no more for man's use someday? 

What can be used in place of petroleum products for medicine? Is there a good non-petroleum alternative to Vaseline petroleum jelly? 

Crude oil is the result of the decomposition of living plants and animals, compressed over millions of years. So whatever can be created from crude oil, gas or coal, can be simulated simply by using the sun and carbon-rich compounds and water..

[JohnDBarrow]

13 minutes ago, Sensei said:

Oil has some uses besides being a fuel, such as people making plastic from it.

Plastics can be produced from a variety of sources, for example, thermal decomposition of bioethanol (i.e. ethanol from fermentation of plants) creates ethylene, and then polyethylene or other compounds can be created from it. The question is at what cost. Land used to grow crops for bioethanol is not used for food production, which increases its cost.

There are attempts to directly create ethanol from air https://www.google.com/search?q=ethanol+from+air+produiction

Crude oil is the result of the decomposition of living plants and animals, compressed over millions of years. So whatever can be created from crude oil, gas or coal, can be simulated simply by using the sun and carbon-rich compounds and water..

Thank you, Mr. S. My worries about future lubrication are now over!  The future worries me over lots of things, but you've solved the long-term future of lubing guns and door hinges!  I use Vaseline (petroleum-based) for my hemorrhoids. You must have future sore behinds covered too!  

[exchemist]

2 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

Thank you, Mr. S. My worries about future lubrication are now over!  The future worries me over lots of things, but you've solved the long-term future of lubing guns and door hinges!  I use Vaseline (petroleum-based) for my hemorrhoids. You must have future sore behinds covered too!  

As a matter of fact biodegradable lubricants, often made from biological sources, have been on the market for many years now.  They tend not to be suitable for engine oil, but then as we won't be running IC engines, that problem will go away in any case.

As  @Sensei says, a wide range of organic chemicals, including polymers, can in principle be made using such things as ethanol or methanol as a feedstock, or starch or cellulose (carbohydrates). So when, probably well over a century from now, the last oil refineries and natural gas synthesis plants ceases to be economic to run, there are options. There is a Royal Society of Chemistry paper reviewing petroleum-derived and biomass-derived options here:  https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2023/su/d2su00014h .   

[iNow]

10 hours ago, swansont said:

Your doomsday framing is getting tiresome.

Getting?

[TheVat]

3 hours ago, exchemist said:

As a matter of fact biodegradable lubricants, often made from biological sources, have been on the market for many years now.  They tend not to be suitable for engine oil, but then as we won't be running IC engines, that problem will go away in any case.

Forget plants, lets put those lazy freeloading whales back to work!  Instead of just lazing around, singing whale songs and snacking on krill all day, we can train them to report for monthly liposuction.

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Forget plants, lets put those lazy freeloading whales back to work!  Instead of just lazing around, singing whale songs and snacking on krill all day, we can train them to report for monthly liposuction.

I am old enough to remember when we replaced sulphurised sperm whale oil with a synthetic substitute, in a lubricant for the bronze bushes on old-fashioned, journal bearing, railway wagons. Of course they have all been rolling element bearings for decades now, so grease-lubricated.

[studiot]

I see you studied English and Physics at school.

Did you also study History?

And in the over 40 years since 1981 what have been your sources for current affairs ?

So let us start with a bit of History.

 

Anything that can be made from oil can also be made from coal and used to be made during the first half of the 20th century.

Known world reserves of coal 1.1 trillion tonnes (tonne = 1000 kilogrammes)  coal contains perhaps 98% carbon.  (google)

Known world reserves of oil  1.2 trillion barrels (a barrel has a mass of 139 kg oil contains about 92% carbon)

So in carbon terms coal outweighs oil by a factor of (1.1 x 1000 x 0.98) /  (1.2 x 139 x 0.92)  =  7

So are we really so short of resources ?

 

During World War 2 Germany started with no sources of oil but plenty of coal, and was always squeezed thought the war and forced to manufacture synthetic fuel as a resul.

During the aparteid embargos, South Africa was in the same position.

Again during WW2 oil in Britain was rationed and some farmers garnered gas from chicken manure to powere their machinery.
This tradition has continued into the second half of the 20th century and beyond.

A modern improvement has been the rapid growth of the anaerobic biodigestor industry, which turns waste organic material into useful gas fuel and other products.

Another modern innovation is the way advanced countries (also the greatest consumers) are recyclying ever increasing percentages of oil products, particularly plastics, or phasing them out in favour of renewable materials.

Talking of plastics did you know that the first ever plastic is made from milk and still used in high quality glues and artists paints?

In the lubricant world two major fronts of advancement have happened.
Firstly the addition of inorganic substances to improve the lubricant performance. for example 'Moly' or Molybdenum Disulphide.
Secondly the design  of machinery has changed dramatically, being both much lighter and thefore imposing less bearing loads, and even going so far as needing no lubrication whatsoever, for example the change from magnetic platter hard drives to solid state.

 

So perhaps you can see that Engineers and Scientists are not as green as they are cabbage looking, the real problem being the greed of those who control the

resources and are looking for profit or power

[swansont]

16 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

It is not a doomsday prediction on my part. I don't see how man will be able to continue to use crude oil on planet Earth for any purposes much longer unless he soon reduces crude oil use to strictly non-fuel purposes as oil for lubrication and medicine.

The doomsday vibe is the implication that there are no alternatives, and that we’ll be screwed by the loss of oil (“How will we ever lubricate things like door hinges, locks, motor bearings, guns, sewing machines and fishing reels whenever crude oil becomes available no more for man's use someday?) 

 

[dimreepr]

On 7/20/2024 at 6:18 AM, JohnDBarrow said:

Does anybody here predict how much longer the planet Earth will even be habitable for the human species?  I read somewhere that sun still has about another 5 billion years left. Perhaps, man will have evolved into something else before then. 

Maybe, just think about how you'll get to the shop's tomorrow; Armageddon isn't due for at least a month... 🤞

[JohnDBarrow]

On 7/21/2024 at 7:46 AM, dimreepr said:

Maybe, just think about how you'll get to the shop's tomorrow; Armageddon isn't due for at least a month... 🤞

People seem totally different today than they did in the 20th century. It's as if I can plainly see evolution in action. It's as if the human species has turned into some weird creatures. Instead of presenting oneself  like a well-dressed, well-groomed, proper-speaking, polite and educated lady or a gentleman, we have become a culture that looks, sounds, smells and acts like homeless bums, stupid idiots, zombies, winos, circus freaks, degenerates, convicts, gangsters, mentally retarded folks and bikers. 

Edited July 22 by JohnDBarrow

[TheVat]

 

 

 

 

Edited July 22 by TheVat

[Phi for All]

6 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

People seem totally different today than they did in the 20th century.

Imagine that! People changing century by century!

7 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

It's as if I can plainly see evolution in action.

It's more like you don't understand evolution.

8 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

It's as if the human species has turned into some weird creatures.

... who are overly judgemental about large groups they don't bother to know much about.

10 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

Instead of presenting oneself  like a well-dressed, well-groomed, proper-speaking, polite and educated lady or a gentleman, we have become a culture that looks, sounds, smells and acts like homeless bums, stupid idiots, zombies, winos, circus freaks, degenerates, convicts, gangsters, mentally retarded folks and bikers. 

So you hate the way people dress, their hygiene, the way they speak, their manners, and their education. You think everyone should meet your standards, otherwise they deserve nothing but your derision. You also equate homelessness and mental retardation with felonies and illegality. I think people who think like you are one of the biggest detriments to human society. You're judgemental to the point of unreasonableness, and unwilling to see your fellow humans as anything but above or below you instead of living side by side. Your stances disgust me frankly, and I hope attitudes like yours die off very soon, since nobody interested in being smart needs that kind of ignorance.

 

[exchemist]

37 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

People seem totally different today than they did in the 20th century. It's as if I can plainly see evolution in action. It's as if the human species has turned into some weird creatures. Instead of presenting oneself  like a well-dressed, well-groomed, proper-speaking, polite and educated lady or a gentleman, we have become a culture that looks, sounds, smells and acts like homeless bums, stupid idiots, zombies, winos, circus freaks, degenerates, convicts, gangsters, mentally retarded folks and bikers. 

Bikers? What’s your problem with them?

More to the point, what does your rant have to do with the thread topic?

Edited July 22 by exchemist

[TheVat]

2 minutes ago, exchemist said:

Bikers? What’s your problem with them?

As someone who is a zombie at certain hours of the day, I was also quite triggered by that thoughtless slur.  So much that I had to stress-eat some brains.