Electromagnetic field lines

[studiot]

Thank

2 hours ago, Bcook said:

I just wonder where you heard me talking about a transformer that I am dealing with? I did mention transformer by comparison.

If I analyze your statement, it sounds like you are saying AC does not have a circular magnetic field?

Above I said "envision as slow motion"  meaning one field line at a time regardless of direction.

The jumping button magnetic is indeed because of AC, please explain why the changing fields no longer interact with the surrounding iron.

It is my website, as far as how professional it looks, I can only do what I have resources for.

What parts of or is it all parts that you don't see anything unexpected? If you expect to see the data that I show, then I guess you have more

understanding then any computer simulation.
  

Maybe you would have better luck simulating that circuit, if so I would love to see the data. 

As far as the explanations being hazy, if you can't envision what the field lines are doing when the circuit is active, while disregarding voltage and current,

I can understand why it would be hazy.

Here is another demo that is focused just on field lines, voltage in this setup is completely disregarded.

  Field line demo

Thanks for the replies

I was not criticising your website or its presentation, just commenting on the physics.

Thank you for offering further thoughts. 

This may help us bridge the gap between your ideas and conventional ones.

 

In the original linked videos you mention but I could not see the capacitor. The later video doesn't mention it or show it.

In the circuit diagram above the capacitor is in series with a transformer and a motor (and the mains supply).
 

Consequently the entire supplied current must pass through this capacitor.  Hopefully it is rated for these currents.

In the original vids a current of around 2 amps is mentioned. The later vid has around 5 amps, reducing to 4. something when you add series inductance via the second motor.
This is to be expected and shows that it is inductance, not resistance which controls the current.

 

As regards power your metering is not set up to show the change in phase angle between voltage and current, as additional circuitry is added.

Showing this would be enlightening for all concerned.

 

I do not see any scope for mutual inductance between the two motors in the last video.
Mutual inductance is, of course, a way to get field line interaction.

 

 

 

Edited August 3 by studiot

[Mordred]

Seems both @Studiot and I agree on this. I will leave this in Studiot's court as engineering is far more his specialty.

Edited August 3 by Mordred

[studiot]

Ok so physics used to be fun and here is an old fashioned experiment we did at school.

 

Elihu's Exeriment is particularly fun.

 

 

 

These should help with understanding transformers and what happens when you remove the keepr or I part from the Es and Is frame.

 

I note that this is still a legitimate experiment in some places.

 

 

[Mordred]

@studiot +1 nice demonstration video I also noticed the equation 10 (b) of the Elihu Thomson ring was highly applicable to the circuit shown

[Bcook]

17 hours ago, studiot said:

I was not criticising your website or its presentation, just commenting on the physics.

Thank you for offering further thoughts. 

This may help us bridge the gap between your ideas and conventional ones.

Thank you

In the picture you are showing, that is a transformer setup, most tend to see that when looking at what I am doing.

I in no way use the coil setup as a transformer, it is very specific for field line interactions.

If you are interested in investigating, which is why I am on here, I will provide whatever you need for you to analyze.

If you are really interested, here is a link to months of corresponding with someone else on another forum, until he quite.

Forum discussion

Loaded with data and many demos, as well as me explaining my mindset.   

Just remember, no formal schooling means my terminology can be a little difficult, I say it the way I see it.

I hope you are interested, thanks  

[studiot]

28 minutes ago, Bcook said:

I in no way use the coil setup as a transformer, it is very specific for field line interactions.

Your circuit diagram posted here shows an iron cored transformer ?

 

Do you know the difference between a universal motor and a motor ?

 

[Mordred]

1 hour ago, Bcook said:

Thank you

In the picture you are showing, that is a transformer setup, most tend to see that when looking at what I am doing.

I in no way use the coil setup as a transformer, it is very specific for field line interactions.

If you are interested in investigating, which is why I am on here, I will provide whatever you need for you to analyze.

 

So that circuit diagram is not accurate to your setup ?

Why don't we start with an accurate circuit diagram with component values where applicable 

[Bcook]

23 hours ago, studiot said:

Your circuit diagram posted here shows an iron cored transformer ?

Just because it has two coils and an iron core doesn't mean it is using the operating principles of a transformer.

23 hours ago, studiot said:

Do you know the difference between a universal motor and a motor ?

Yes, if you are asking because of the demo showing a small motor, that is a 12 volt dc motor found in any car.

22 hours ago, Mordred said:

So that circuit diagram is not accurate to your setup ?

I am confused about this statement, this is the diagram I developed some five years ago and was issued a patent on.

Which is not just about its components, it's about it's operating principles and what it does.

22 hours ago, Mordred said:

Why don't we start with an accurate circuit diagram with component values where applicable 

This circuit is so simple, all that can change is placing the capacitor or coils in different locations within the circuit, which I have done, and tested for changes.

The motor used for load just makes available a predetermined magnetic intensity of about 2.1 amps and a loaded speed of about 1400 rpm.

With a power factor of .6 without the coil setup in the circuit, with the coil setup it's .65 power factor.

The capacitor used in the demo, 220 v.ac 54 MFD       here is data on transformer housing

isolation transformer - ds_st_m4l_series-1633501.pdf

This circuit is about accessing the available magnetic intensity and using it as a starting point for other purposes.

In it's controlled state, all that matters is whats going on within the iron core while not having any effect on motor performance or current draw.

The motor itself provides two things, the magnetic intensity as well as a time variation of that magnetic intensity.

Every since I developed this circuit I have been trying to explain in detail this circuit, it seems that my perspective does not coincide with what science says.

That appears to be what happened on the last forum, he was trying to understand the coil setup based on electrical engineering beliefs.

When he could not understand and his simulations could not understand, he quit? All while never denying the data, no one as ever denied the data.

They just seem to believe it is not possible.

On 8/3/2024 at 2:29 PM, studiot said:

In the original vids a current of around 2 amps is mentioned. The later vid has around 5 amps, reducing to 4. something when you add series inductance via the second motor.

Two different videos, different motors, I actually use three different motors for different demos.

I'm not sure what you saw? or associated.

The two demos are a motor with a .6 power factor and the other is a motor with a .3 power factor, different motors, different specs.

Showing how power factor difference affects the circuit, lower power factor means the secondary potential is much higher with the correct capacitance

values on the primary side. Secondary potential is based on power factor of the primary line and the resistance across the secondary leads.

One of the points that I can't seem to get across to anyone is the "transformer", it's just two coils housed within a common core, it's sole purpose, field line interactions.

One of the things that I can't understand is if you take this circuit, analyze all the interactions independently, damn near everyone on an individual basis is

condoned by your science and yet when you put them together in a neat little package to work in unity, it's a completely different story.

With that being said, I have been trying to find someone (professional) who's willing to look at certain aspects from a different perspective, field line only.

Thanks, I hope I haven't deterred you.

[exchemist]

56 minutes ago, Bcook said:

Just because it has two coils and an iron core doesn't mean it is using the operating principles of a transformer.

Yes, if you are asking because of the demo showing a small motor, that is a 12 volt dc motor found in any car.

I am confused about this statement, this is the diagram I developed some five years ago and was issued a patent on.

Which is not just about its components, it's about it's operating principles and what it does.

This circuit is so simple, all that can change is placing the capacitor or coils in different locations within the circuit, which I have done, and tested for changes.

The motor used for load just makes available a predetermined magnetic intensity of about 2.1 amps and a loaded speed of about 1400 rpm.

With a power factor of .6 without the coil setup in the circuit, with the coil setup it's .65 power factor.

The capacitor used in the demo, 220 v.ac 54 MFD       here is data on transformer housing

isolation transformer - ds_st_m4l_series-1633501.pdf 434.49 kB · 1 download

This circuit is about accessing the available magnetic intensity and using it as a starting point for other purposes.

In it's controlled state, all that matters is whats going on within the iron core while not having any effect on motor performance or current draw.

The motor itself provides two things, the magnetic intensity as well as a time variation of that magnetic intensity.

Every since I developed this circuit I have been trying to explain in detail this circuit, it seems that my perspective does not coincide with what science says.

That appears to be what happened on the last forum, he was trying to understand the coil setup based on electrical engineering beliefs.

When he could not understand and his simulations could not understand, he quit? All while never denying the data, no one as ever denied the data.

They just seem to believe it is not possible.

Two different videos, different motors, I actually use three different motors for different demos.

I'm not sure what you saw? or associated.

The two demos are a motor with a .6 power factor and the other is a motor with a .3 power factor, different motors, different specs.

Showing how power factor difference affects the circuit, lower power factor means the secondary potential is much higher with the correct capacitance

values on the primary side. Secondary potential is based on power factor of the primary line and the resistance across the secondary leads.

One of the points that I can't seem to get across to anyone is the "transformer", it's just two coils housed within a common core, it's sole purpose, field line interactions.

One of the things that I can't understand is if you take this circuit, analyze all the interactions independently, damn near everyone on an individual basis is

condoned by your science and yet when you put them together in a neat little package to work in unity, it's a completely different story.

With that being said, I have been trying to find someone (professional) who's willing to look at certain aspects from a different perspective, field line only.

Thanks, I hope I haven't deterred you.

Would you be willing to share the patent number and country in which it was granted? I’d be interested to read the description of the invention and the claims.

[Bcook]

Sure   Patent # US 11,309,735 B1

[exchemist]

42 minutes ago, Bcook said:

Sure   Patent # US 11,309,735 B1

Thanks. And here it is, for anyone interested:

https://patents.google.com/patent/US11309735B1/en?oq=US+11309735+B1
 

[studiot]

On 8/5/2024 at 4:38 PM, Bcook said:

Just because it has two coils and an iron core doesn't mean it is using the operating principles of a transformer.

 

 

You posted a circuit diagram which is a standard language for engineers (and others) in this discipline.

Two coils arranged against three solid lines has a specific meaning.

If you don't know about this, we are happy to help, but that just as everyone must use the same meaning for yes, no, red, black and so on in (written) English in order to communicate everyone must use the same standard symbols in circuit schematics .

I am well aware that magnetic amplifiers are not transformers and do not require a lecture on the subject.

If your device has two coils and an iron core and is being used in some other manner than a transformer, please show what is actually meant.

 

On 8/5/2024 at 4:38 PM, Bcook said:

Yes, if you are asking because of the demo showing a small motor, that is a 12 volt dc motor found in any car.

Yet you express suprise that a DC motor will run on AC.

A series wound DC motor will run on AC

A shunt wound motor will not and may be damaged.

I can't tell what sort of motor it is from the videos.

But I do know that it is not a transformer.

On 8/5/2024 at 4:38 PM, Bcook said:

I'm not sure what you saw? or associated.

The two demos are a motor with a .6 power factor and the other is a motor with a .3 power factor, different motors, different specs.

I saw whatever was on the videos in your link, and yes I saw two motors.

But motors do not have primary and secondary windings.

I did not see any transformers.

 

The way forward is to take one circuit or configuration at a time and analyse it, not jump around between several different ones.

[Bcook]

I can see where things can get confusing, what demo would you like more detail on?

I would be more than happy to do one as slow and in as much detail as I can.

Were they the ones in the box? If so only one is hooked up and being used.

[Bcook]

I have done another more detailed demo for whoever may want to see the harvester circuit.

My focus is on the add-on component, while making sure the original circuit is not compromised.

The motor used is just to provide a magnetic field intensity as well as a time variation of that magnetic field.

Most seem to believe its about the motor and it's fields, its not, the line connecting the source to the motor has the same magnetic intensity as the motor.

According to diamagnetism a magnetic field induces a magnetic field, the foundation of this circuit.

Detailed Demo

The source is a magnetic interaction, the harvester unit is a magnetic interaction and the motor is a magnetic interaction.

I hope this helps

[studiot]

 

On 8/8/2024 at 4:29 PM, studiot said:

The way forward is to take one circuit or configuration at a time and analyse it, not jump around between several different ones.

 

11 hours ago, Bcook said:

I have done another more detailed demo for whoever may want to see the harvester circuit.

My focus is on the add-on component, while making sure the original circuit is not compromised.

The motor used is just to provide a magnetic field intensity as well as a time variation of that magnetic field.

Most seem to believe its about the motor and it's fields, its not, the line connecting the source to the motor has the same magnetic intensity as the motor.

According to diamagnetism a magnetic field induces a magnetic field, the foundation of this circuit.

Detailed Demo

The source is a magnetic interaction, the harvester unit is a magnetic interaction and the motor is a magnetic interaction.

I hope this helps

 

Yes this new demo appears much closer to the circuit diagram you drew.

 

 

As swansont (congrats by the way for scoring the winning goal in the olympics today 😀)  has already said

On 8/3/2024 at 3:40 PM, swansont said:

I don’t see where you asked a question 

 

So what exact question are you asking ?

[swansont]

23 minutes ago, studiot said:

As swansont (congrats by the way for scoring the winning goal in the olympics today 😀)

Cousin Mallory (no relation)

[studiot]

The air gap

 

Your subject is best approached from a Technician engineer level, not advanced physics like Maxwell.

 

Here is an extract from the best technician testbook I know which shows quite clearly enough how an airgap can increase the inductance of a winding.

I have starred the importance sections.

Quote

The effective inductance of a ferromagnetic cored coil in a dc circuit may be increased by the introduction of an airgap.

 

 

 

Edited August 11 by studiot

[Bcook]

On 8/10/2024 at 7:38 PM, studiot said:

So what exact question are you asking ?

I have been showing and demoing my circuits for years, in every case the data within the circuit is validated.

The most recent testing for me was in the first of 2023 at Florida Polytechnic, which I paid good money to have done.

And yet here I am trying to find someone in the science world who is willing to look at it objectively.

Apparently the science world cannot look at this objectively.

My holdup, business people that I talk with get excited about the prospect of what I'm telling them, then their next step is

talk to their electrical engineers, and you know whats said then, that shit can't be done.

I would imagine that if a research group from MIT was presenting what I am, it would be all the rage.

And yes, I have reached out to MIT multiple times as well as many other universities all over the US, only to get no response.

So, my exact question, WHY?   Why will no one look at this objectively? even though it's been proven

[studiot]

1 hour ago, Bcook said:

I have been showing and demoing my circuits for years, in every case the data within the circuit is validated.

The most recent testing for me was in the first of 2023 at Florida Polytechnic, which I paid good money to have done.

And yet here I am trying to find someone in the science world who is willing to look at it objectively.

Apparently the science world cannot look at this objectively.

My holdup, business people that I talk with get excited about the prospect of what I'm telling them, then their next step is

talk to their electrical engineers, and you know whats said then, that shit can't be done.

I would imagine that if a research group from MIT was presenting what I am, it would be all the rage.

And yes, I have reached out to MIT multiple times as well as many other universities all over the US, only to get no response.

So, my exact question, WHY?   Why will no one look at this objectively? even though it's been proven

 

Well I think you have a case of positive or negative mutual inductance in the transformer, depending upon which way round the coils and jumper are connected.

The total inductance is given by Lt =  L1 + l2  ± 2 M when you connect the coils via your jumper or resistor, Where L1 and L2 are the individual coils inductances and M is their mutual inductance.

 

I have been doing you the courtesy of taking seriously what you are showing, whilst taking the trouble to understand the connections.

Please do the same for professional Engineers you have been consistently disparaging.

I am a retired applied Mathemaician, not an electrical engineer, which means I have done a considerable amount of electrical calculations in my time.

 

In one of your videos you asked acted incredulous about the fan continuing to work when you introduced an air gap, but have shown no interest in the elementary theory of air gaps and their effects that I posted last time.

[Bcook]

20 hours ago, studiot said:

Please do the same for professional Engineers you have been consistently disparaging.

If it seems that way I sincerely apologize.

20 hours ago, studiot said:

In one of your videos you asked acted incredulous about the fan continuing to work when you introduced an air gap, but have shown no interest in the elementary theory of air gaps and their effects that I posted last time.

In this statement, I did not talk about the fan when mentioning the air gap within the iron core, that was your perception of what I was saying.

I mentioned the air gap because the fields within the iron core will not be fully utilized.

My perspective is so vastly different it does not coincide with the current paradigm.

The foundation of my perception is diamagnetism, when a magnetic field interacts with a diamagnetic material that material generates a magnetic field.

When I look at what you posted for me, it doesn't make sense to me based on what I see happening, like what I am showing doesn't seem make sense to you.

I try to bridge the gap by trying to explain the way I see it. It's a field line, think of it as two cogged gears, whatever direction one moves the other is opposite.

Its simply two field lines regardless of the layout.

When a magnetic field interacts with an inductor winding, its interacting with a strand of wire, it doesn't matter if it's a single strand or overlaid 100 times.

In other words it doesn't matter the number of windings as far as the field line goes, increasing the number of windings only increases the intensity experienced

on the strand of wire. My focus is not just about the field, its about the field line, and that seems to confuse people.

During a magnetic interaction with a diamagnetic there is only one field line, while that field line is present there are two phenomenon, interact with that

one field line and see how the two phenomenon change, this is what this circuit is about.

That's the reason I mention that this circuit is not about the motor it's not about the fields within the motor it's about the field line occupying the wire that

connect the motor to the source, and the source is just a magnetic interaction.

When I first developed this circuit I had someone do testing, he teaches mathematics, and is a licensed electrical engineer because when school is out he does

testing for NASA and Los Alamos. He validated the data but could not understand the magnetics, he said I kind of get it, but I don't really get it.

And said there are no mathematical equations for what he tested. The data was real but he couldn't understand why.

If you look at a lab scope connected to a strand of wire, you will see a voltage and current waveform pointing in the same direction, north or south.

The north or south direction of the waveform is just indicating the direction of the field line.

I get told all the time, that is not how it works, and yet no one can explain what's going on in these circuits.

I probably have made the situation worst but I can only explain it the way I see it.

Thanks

 

 

[studiot]

2 hours ago, Bcook said:

In this statement, I did not talk about the fan when mentioning the air gap within the iron core, that was your perception of what I was saying.

I mentioned the air gap because the fields within the iron core will not be fully utilized

That was not 'my perception' at all.

Please go back and read carefully what I wrote.

You actually asked a question along the lines of 'What happened to the magnetic field ?'

I answered this question.

So please stop saying

2 hours ago, Bcook said:

and yet no one can explain what's going on in these circuits.

I have since answered another of your questions, which answer you have again ignored.

 

Now here are two questions of mine

2 hours ago, Bcook said:

The foundation of my perception is diamagnetism, when a magnetic field interacts with a diamagnetic material that material generates a magnetic field.

What is you understanding of a diamagnetic material ?

All materials, without exception, are diamagnetic.

In some materials paramagnetism or its stronger cousin ferromagnetism swamp this diamagnetic effect.

 

The interaction between a magnetic field and a material object can be viewed or classified according to the effect on the material object or the effect on the magnetic field.

Both of these views must obviously 'match up'.

The dia, para and ferro classification was introduced by Faraday's original work, when they had no means of probing the magentic field so he went for the effects on the material object.

Later workersdeveloped means of probing the field and the so they are usually now described in terms of the effects on the magnetic field.

But, of course they match up.

 

Secondly can you explain what you mean by this

 

2 hours ago, Bcook said:

During a magnetic interaction with a diamagnetic there is only one field line,

?

 

Finally I don't know who removed the link in your original post but I can't find it now so have to rely on memory of that original bunch of videos you linked to.

[Bcook]

On 8/12/2024 at 12:00 PM, studiot said:

I have been doing you the courtesy of taking seriously what you are showing, whilst taking the trouble to understand the connections.

You are absolutely correct, I apologize.

So if I may, let me address what you are talking about.

On 8/12/2024 at 12:00 PM, studiot said:

Well I think you have a case of positive or negative mutual inductance in the transformer, depending upon which way round the coils and jumper are connected.

To stick with the actual data, there is only one way to connect to the coil leads, simply because the secondary is shorted, with or without resistance.

You can even flip the coil over, now the windings are backwards vs the primary, and nothing changes.

On 8/13/2024 at 12:48 PM, studiot said:

What is you understanding of a diamagnetic material ?

I am mechanical by nature meaning everything to me has a mechanical aspect.

My only understanding is that when a magnetic field interacts with a dia material the material induces a magnetic field of its own with oppositional fields.

The mechanical aspect of that for me is when I described two cogged gears working together.

 

On 8/12/2024 at 12:00 PM, studiot said:

The total inductance is given by Lt =  L1 + l2  ± 2 M when you connect the coils via your jumper or resistor, Where L1 and L2 are the individual coils inductances and M is their mutual inductance.

In this equation I'm assuming this would be if the secondary coil is shorted having no resistance across the leads?

How would the equation change based on resistance changes across the leads of the secondary?

Any resistance across the secondary leads causes changes on the primary line.

When adding resistance the secondary coil follows ohms law starting with current adding resistance and equating to voltage.

On 8/13/2024 at 12:48 PM, studiot said:

Finally I don't know who removed the link in your original post but I can't find it now so have to rely on memory of that original bunch of videos you linked to.

I don't know what was removed from the post or why?

If you remember which one I will repost it.

 

[studiot]

8 hours ago, Bcook said:

On 8/13/2024 at 5:48 PM, studiot said:

What is you understanding of a diamagnetic material ?

I am mechanical by nature meaning everything to me has a mechanical aspect.

My only understanding is that when a magnetic field interacts with a dia material the material induces a magnetic field of its own with oppositional fields.

The mechanical aspect of that for me is when I described two cogged gears working together.

Well here is a simple mechanical test for you.

I said

On 8/13/2024 at 5:48 PM, studiot said:

The interaction between a magnetic field and a material object can be viewed or classified according to the effect on the material object or the effect on the magnetic field.

Both of these views must obviously 'match up'.

 

If you take a rod of a material and suspend it freely in a magnetic field.

 

From the point of view of the object.

A paramagnetic or a ferromagnetic rod will align its long axis parallel to the field

A diamagnetic rod will align its long axis across the field

(Faraday 1845)

 

From the point of view of the field.

The field in the vicinity of the rod will change. For most materials this will not be by very much.

The magnetic field in the vicinity of a diamagnetic rod is decreased slightly, perhaps 0.001% - 0.1 %

The magnetic field in the vicinity of a paramagnetic rod is increased, perhaps  0.001% - 0.1 %

The magnetic field in the vicinity of a ferromagnetic rod is increased by up to 100 times or 10,000%

 

8 hours ago, Bcook said:

To stick with the actual data, there is only one way to connect to the coil leads, simply because the secondary is shorted, with or without resistance.

You can even flip the coil over, now the windings are backwards vs the primary, and nothing changes.

Not sure what you mean by shorted.  Did you leave the shorting wire in place and add a resistor ?

 

Here is a useful device for describing things called black box theory. Very useful in circuit theroy but it also appears in mechancal theory.

 

If A-B are the terminals of the primary of your transformer and C-D are the secondary, please indicate what these are connected to.

The whole pint of Black Box theory is that for this purpose it does not matter what is inside the box, only its connections to the outside world.

For your information the connection and layout information is commonly called the circuit topology.

 

8 hours ago, Bcook said:

I don't know what was removed from the post or why?

If you remember which one I will repost it.

Thank you. Now I owe you an apology as I have found it in your second post.

I think in the original post it was marked 'demo'.

 

When you connect the motors, the first is a standard 120 volt motor and the second is a 12 volt motor connected in series across the 120 volts line (phase you call it correctly).

I do not, therefore find it suprising that both motors will still run as the bulk of the drop will appear across the moter with the higher impedance (the 120V motor).

[Bcook]

15 hours ago, studiot said:

Not sure what you mean by shorted.  Did you leave the shorting wire in place and add a resistor ?

 

the primary winding is in series with a primary load, only to be able to use the magnetic field

the secondary winding is connected across it's two leads, starting with a connection having zero resistance, ultimately adding resistance for

a desired effect on the primary winding, one lead of the secondary can be grounded if desired, then adding resistance to the other lead

that also has to attach to a ground.

I would like to stick with this circuit for now, the other circuit with the two motors, it's about field lines only, use with minimal negative effect.

I hope the diagram helps

[studiot]

Now here's the thing.

 

You have cobbled together some standard electrical equipment and may or may not have hit upon an unusual, but useful configuration.

However it should be noted that all the equipment you are using was conceived , designed and built strictly according to conventional electrical theory.

Consequently they can be expected to perform according to that theory, and the original manufacturers will have tested to show that this is the case.

Your diagrams and words here are at variance with each other and with your sundry videos.

When asked about this, I'm sorry to say, you don't listen properly and expend a lot of effort answering questions that were not asked, whilst missing important ones that were.