julius2 Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 Thanks to all the posts on this forum to my posts. This is where I am up to so far.... The pretence is that there was time before the Big Bang. The question is what might this time look like? My proposal is that some of the time might look similar to what we see in the world today. So let's propose that there were earth worlds in the past. What is the model? Well, they would have had their own Big Bang. For the sake of argument let's argue that they there existed a "smaller" time than ours. So a smaller earth world and a smaller universe. Over time an earth world develops. Oceans form and plant life comes on to the planet. Then some form of reptilien life evolves. Reptilien possibly because it is more resilient in a more harsh environment. Then somehow other life forms evolve. And an ape like species evolves (like for us). And eventually humans come on to this earth world. They have a history, starting with tribes etc. Then eventually as society stabilises science develops and they invent engines, electricity etc. Then as time progresses they discover a type of time science. Overall their world dies, the stars in their universe die out and they go in to the Big Freeze. My proposal then is that we are living in a similar way but with a MUCH BIGGER world and universe. Will we go to in to the Big Freeze or will we discover something along the way that will alter our current trajectory in time? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 5 minutes ago, julius2 said: The pretence is that there was time before the Big Bang. ! Moderator Note Speculation is NOT pretending. You need some way to support your proposals, otherwise it's just guessing, which can be fun but isn't science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted August 3 Share Posted August 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, julius2 said: Thanks to all the posts on this forum to my posts. This is where I am up to so far.... The pretence is that there was time before the Big Bang. The question is what might this time look like? My proposal is that some of the time might look similar to what we see in the world today. So let's propose that there were earth worlds in the past. What is the model? Well, they would have had their own Big Bang. For the sake of argument let's argue that they there existed a "smaller" time than ours. So a smaller earth world and a smaller universe. Over time an earth world develops. Oceans form and plant life comes on to the planet. Then some form of reptilien life evolves. Reptilien possibly because it is more resilient in a more harsh environment. Then somehow other life forms evolve. And an ape like species evolves (like for us). And eventually humans come on to this earth world. They have a history, starting with tribes etc. Then eventually as society stabilises science develops and they invent engines, electricity etc. Then as time progresses they discover a type of time science. Overall their world dies, the stars in their universe die out and they go in to the Big Freeze. My proposal then is that we are living in a similar way but with a MUCH BIGGER world and universe. Will we go to in to the Big Freeze or will we discover something along the way that will alter our current trajectory in time? Let's start with time. Time is a property of a system, state etc. It never exists on its own. Secondly the Interval (ct) is what gives time dimensionality of length not time by itself. Can there be multiverses and time prior to our universe absolutely (bounce cosmology or cyclic universe cosmology). However your approach is far too hand wavy there is plenty of mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. Edited August 3 by Mordred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julius2 Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 10 hours ago, Phi for All said: ! Moderator Note Speculation is NOT pretending. You need some way to support your proposals, otherwise it's just guessing, which can be fun but isn't science. Okay, I am happy to support my proposals. Sorry it is taking some time. 7 minutes ago, julius2 said: Okay, I am happy to support my proposals. Sorry it is taking some time. I will try to do something to eliminate the guesswork ! 8 hours ago, Mordred said: Let's start with time. Time is a property of a system, state etc. It never exists on its own. Secondly the Interval (ct) is what gives time dimensionality of length not time by itself. Can there be multiverses and time prior to our universe absolutely (bounce cosmology or cyclic universe cosmology). However your approach is far too hand wavy there is plenty of mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of the mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. My preference is to read about this from books rather than "skatty" sources on the internet. This way the arguments are more coherent ! Bounce cosmology is a new term for me. But it sounds interesting ! Are you able to outline the basic tenets, here in the forum? 11 minutes ago, julius2 said: Okay, I am happy to support my proposals. Sorry it is taking some time. I will try to do something to eliminate the guesswork ! Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of the mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. My preference is to read about this from books rather than "skatty" sources on the internet. This way the arguments are more coherent ! Bounce cosmology is a new term for me. But it sounds interesting ! Are you able to outline the basic tenets, here in the forum? So if I can add some parameters to my model..... Let us have the set {U1, U2, U3, .........} where U1 - universe 1 in time, U2 - universe 2 in time....... So by having a set this implies that we have multiple universes in time. I suppose for completeness we can call our current universe U0 or just plain U ! 12 minutes ago, julius2 said: Okay, I am happy to support my proposals. Sorry it is taking some time. I will try to do something to eliminate the guesswork ! Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of the mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. My preference is to read about this from books rather than "skatty" sources on the internet. This way the arguments are more coherent ! Bounce cosmology is a new term for me. But it sounds interesting ! Are you able to outline the basic tenets, here in the forum? So if I can add some parameters to my model..... Let us have the set {U1, U2, U3, .........} where U1 - universe 1 in time, U2 - universe 2 in time....... So by having a set this implies that we have multiple universes in time. I suppose for completeness we can call our current universe U0 or just plain U ! Now, what I want to address in my model for time is: - the varying sizes of these universes - so what are the sizes of {U1, U2, U3.....} My proposal is that each of the universes would be of varying size. Given the randomness of our own universe, you would not expect {U1, U2, U3.....} to be exactly the same. So adding a parameter for size (s) U1 (s = 100). might be universe U1 is 100 million light years across. And so on. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julius2 Posted August 4 Author Share Posted August 4 19 hours ago, julius2 said: Okay, I am happy to support my proposals. Sorry it is taking some time. I will try to do something to eliminate the guesswork ! Unfortunately I am not familiar with any of the mathematical examples with regards to multiverses. My preference is to read about this from books rather than "skatty" sources on the internet. This way the arguments are more coherent ! Bounce cosmology is a new term for me. But it sounds interesting ! Are you able to outline the basic tenets, here in the forum? So if I can add some parameters to my model..... Let us have the set {U1, U2, U3, .........} where U1 - universe 1 in time, U2 - universe 2 in time....... So by having a set this implies that we have multiple universes in time. I suppose for completeness we can call our current universe U0 or just plain U ! Now, what I want to address in my model for time is: - the varying sizes of these universes - so what are the sizes of {U1, U2, U3.....} My proposal is that each of the universes would be of varying size. Given the randomness of our own universe, you would not expect {U1, U2, U3.....} to be exactly the same. So adding a parameter for size (s) U1 (s = 100). might be universe U1 is 100 million light years across. And so on. So following on we might have U2 (s = 140), U3 (s = 80) and so on. The question becomes how do these universes come into existence? For our current universe we have done a lot of research and the most accepted explanation is due to a Big Bang which matches most to current empirical evidence. My proposal for universes in general is that they are a "mash up" of previous "times" with "times" yet to defined properly. So this agrees with current theory of the Big Bang for the current universe. So instead of one universe spawning multiple universes I propose that there is a period where there are many different "times". This may contain primitive life very different to what we know. Eventually as these "times" get old they collapse and there is an almighty squeeze and then a big explosion. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 This is not supporting evidence. You're just making guesses on top of other, unsupported guesses. Is that how you think science works ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julius2 Posted August 5 Author Share Posted August 5 36 minutes ago, MigL said: This is not supporting evidence. You're just making guesses on top of other, unsupported guesses. Is that how you think science works ? No, I am building a theoretical model, with the help of your responses. In general, my idea is that science works upon testable assertions. Making experiments to confirm or deny any scientific theory. The question becomes how does one test my theoretical model? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 It’s your “model.” You tell us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 23 hours ago, julius2 said: Bounce cosmology is a new term for me. But it sounds interesting ! Are you able to outline the basic tenets, here in the forum? Bounce Cosmology are models where our universe originated from a previous collapsed universe. Other universe origin models are universe from nothing and cyclic (which is very similar to bounce). Didn't see this question earlier. If you ever want to seriously build a model you really are going about it the wrong way. It's never guesswork and there isn't any method that avoids the mathematics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julius2 Posted August 8 Author Share Posted August 8 On 8/5/2024 at 1:30 PM, Mordred said: Bounce Cosmology are models where our universe originated from a previous collapsed universe. Other universe origin models are universe from nothing and cyclic (which is very similar to bounce). Didn't see this question earlier. If you ever want to seriously build a model you really are going about it the wrong way. It's never guesswork and there isn't any method that avoids the mathematics. I did find some stuff on the internet about Bounce Cosmology: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-universe-began-with-a-bang-not-a-bounce-new-studies-find/ My model does not follow the Bounce Cosmology entirely. My model says that a universe - ie planets and stars - form after a Big Bang. But the thing is that this is actually a "mashup" of times from before. Where the times are like vectors - rather than many spherical objects in it. To prove all of this is probably quite difficult because how do we see that far back. Especially since everything has been "mashed up" in the Big Bang. But can anyone think of any possible scenario where we ARE able to see that far back. Hint: think outside of the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, julius2 said: But can anyone think of any possible scenario where we ARE able to see that far back. That’s your job. 1 hour ago, julius2 said: Hint: think outside of the box. That’s a pretty useless hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 (edited) 2 hours ago, julius2 said: My model says that a universe - ie planets and stars - form after a Big Bang. But the thing is that this is actually a "mashup" of times from before. Where the times are like vectors - rather than many spherical objects in it. To prove all of this is probably quite difficult because how do we see that far back. Especially since everything has been "mashed up" in the Big Bang. That's why mathematics using known physics would be required. There is no viable option that avoids that requirement. Edited August 8 by Mordred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 5 hours ago, julius2 said: My model says that a universe - ie planets and stars - form after a Big Bang. But the thing is that this is actually a "mashup" of times from before. Where the times are like vectors - rather than many spherical objects in it. Does your model say this, or do you? A good model is based on reliable observations and should SHOW how the explanation is formulated with as little assumption as possible. I don't think you can model something from before our observational abilities begin. You aren't modeling, you're guessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 1 hour ago, Phi for All said: I don't think you can model something from before our observational abilities begin. You aren't modeling, you're guessing. It's done in the FLRW metric for any time period prior to the dark ages prior to recombination and the detection availability is the CMB (indirect signature detection). However that requires math using known physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted August 8 Share Posted August 8 On 8/3/2024 at 6:46 PM, julius2 said: Then some form of reptilien life evolves. Reptilien? Is life German? You left out the most interesting bit of evolution, which is the transition from prokaryotes to eukaryotes. Once you have eukaryote life going, the combinatorics from reptilian to avian, or from reptilian to mammalian is rather trivial in comparison. I think. IOW, eukaryotic life only occured once for all we know. One swallow doesn't make a Summer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julius2 Posted August 9 Author Share Posted August 9 13 hours ago, swansont said: That’s your job. That’s a pretty useless hint. Not really. -3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted August 9 Share Posted August 9 Don’t reintroduce this unless you have an actual model, and can comply with the rules of speculations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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