Supper time... boiling pasta.

[Externet]

Hi all.

Done and tried it dozens of times.  In a pot, put the dry pasta, barely cover with water and set fire until boils for 3 minutes.   

Works every time and never taste any difference with the "boil a lot of water first and when boiling, then add the pasta for 3 minutes"   Are my taste buds dead or it is just another myth of having a lot of water wasting heat first ?  Why ?

I would guess that pasta in cold water first; starts hydration without wasting time until boils.   Actually, am in doubt that the heating part improves the pasta.  Hydrating in plain cold water for 30 minutes or as needed is a next test, no heat at all... Just warm to serve.  Now you know am no cook, but I have to try contesting the establishment. 🙄

[exchemist]

16 minutes ago, Externet said:

Hi all.

Done and tried it dozens of times.  In a pot, put the dry pasta, barely cover with water and set fire until boils for 3 minutes.   

Works every time and never taste any difference with the "boil a lot of water first and when boiling, then add the pasta for 3 minutes"   Are my taste buds dead or it is just another myth of having a lot of water wasting heat first ?  Why ?

I would guess that pasta in cold water first; starts hydration without wasting time until boils.   Actually, am in doubt that the heating part improves the pasta.  Hydrating in plain cold water for 30 minutes or as needed is a next test, no heat at all... Just warm to serve.  Now you know am no cook, but I have to try contesting the establishment. 🙄

Most decent pasta (i.e. made from durum wheat) needs 8-10mins in boiling water (up to 12min for some types, depending on the shape and thickness). Normally you use plenty of water, and a rolling boil, to avoid the pasta sticking to itself. Some people add a spoon of olive oil to the water but I never bother -just give it a stir once or twice in case any of it is starting to stick together.

But I suppose if you heat from cold it starts to cook earlier, so you need less time once it starts to boil. I imagine the issue with that method, though, will be that the rate of heating until it boils, and therefore the cooking time, will vary, depending on how much pasta you cook, how much water you put in, the size of the pan, the heat of the hob etc. So you may find it hard to get the same results reliably unless you are always keeping all those variables fixed: same amount of pasta, same pan, same amount of water, same gas ring. Whereas if you wait until you have boiling water first, and then add the pasta, you can time it reliably as the cooking rate will be constant - water at 100C. I'd also have thought you might have an issue with it sticking if you heat from cold, as there will be no agitation until it boils.

In summary, it may work for you but I'm not tempted to try. Being in the UK, I have an electric kettle to boil the water first, so I do that, tip it in, add the pasta and salt - and check my watch.

 

Edited August 6 by exchemist

[CharonY]

Exchemist has mentioned the most important point, dropping pasta into defined temperature creates the most reproducibility. Now there is quite some chemistry related to pasta cooking and generally speaking, the first process is controlled by water penetration, starch gelatinization and protein coagulation. 

These steps are all temperature dependent but not all aspects are impacted equally (https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jfoodeng.2007.03.018). For example water penetration occurs at low temperatures, but protein coagulation generally requires  higher temperature for homogenous coagulation. Yet, that is also dependent on the way the gluten network is developed during the production of pasta (https://doi.org/10.1080/10408390802437154). 

Another aspect is the rate of starch gelatinzation to protein coagulation. If coagulation dominates and is done faster than than gelatinzation, starch particles will be trapped in the gluten network resulting in more firm pasta (which is usually desirable). Conversely high starch swelling with an incomplete network allows starch to escape to the surface (and cooking water) which results in soft and sticky pasta (https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/foodmicrostructure/vol2/iss1/2).

As gelatinization starts at lower temperatures, cooking from cold will release more starch. That all being said, for dried pasta it generally does not matter unless it has a large surface (e.g. fettucine) where the released starch can make things rather sticky and where cooking in boiling water accelerates protein coagulation.  Otherwise, one can do the opposite for example soak pasta at low temps (before starch gelatinization, so <45 ish or so C). This takes care of the water penetration part while gelatinization and coagulation does not occur yet. You can then then just heat it up (e.g cook in sauce) to rapidly induce coagulation without the release of excessive amount of starch. 

  

[Externet]

Thanks.  Like your detailed knowledge 😀

The water temperature I usually start the cold soak is ~15C (tap) and reproducibility little variance seems irrelevant, enjoying some days this way, some days that way variety. So am ready to get the spank from a chef that does not dare to deviate from the "norm"

[MigL]

You know, water will boil unattended.
It is then a simple matter to add some salt, drop in the pasta, give it a stir, and start tasting it for 'doneness' about a minute before package directions.
Some of us are very particular about the 'firmness' of our pasta; it would take a lot more effort to continuously taste it for doneness if going from cold water to boil.
Why not save yourself the extra effort and not try to re-invent the wheel ?

[iNow]

I suspect he’s trying to minimize energy use given his past threads

[TheVat]

I've tried cold cook with various grains.  Never worked well with pasta (which sadly gave up, due to fatigue and mental fog from eating wheat products), due to the sticking.  It is however perfect with rolled oats, especially since they are high in phytate which you want to get rid of.  Add a lot of water, soak an hour, then pour off the excess water and leached out phytate.  (I add lemon juice, which speeds up phytate removal)  

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

I've tried cold cook with various grains.  Never worked well with pasta (which sadly gave up, due to fatigue and mental fog from eating wheat products), due to the sticking.  It is however perfect with rolled oats, especially since they are high in phytate which you want to get rid of.  Add a lot of water, soak an hour, then pour off the excess water and leached out phytate.  (I add lemon juice, which speeds up phytate removal)  

Why is phytate a problem? I see it binds to various minerals and impedes their absorption, but only in the meal containing it, surely? 

[Sensei]

I like my pasta overcooked rather than raw. 3 minutes sound like a joke. 3 minutes for how much pasta and how much water? Last time I made 133 g of dry pasta, cooked it for 20-30 minutes, and it absorbed all the water from the pot and grew to maybe 500 g. There are different types of pasta, with or without eggs, with different contents. Each of them requires different treatment.

Remaining water from pasta cooking is used for meat, sauce, soup, not wasted.

I also often reuse the potato water in subsequent dishes.

 

Edited August 7 by Sensei

[CharonY]

16 hours ago, MigL said:

You know, water will boil unattended.
It is then a simple matter to add some salt, drop in the pasta, give it a stir, and start tasting it for 'doneness' about a minute before package directions.
Some of us are very particular about the 'firmness' of our pasta; it would take a lot more effort to continuously taste it for doneness if going from cold water to boil.
Why not save yourself the extra effort and not try to re-invent the wheel ?

A potential advantage is that depending on what kind of stove you have and the size of the pot, the time to boil soaks pasta and cuts down on total cooking time. I know chefs who do that to cut down time for freshly cooking (dry) pasta, but they have optimized their workflow for that. It probably won't work if you do that with fresh pasta, though.

[Sensei]

I just bought new, fresh (dry) pasta, and on it it says "put 100 g of pasta per 1 liter of boiling water, slowly enough not to interrupt the boiling of the water".

Let's check your method with tap water, no boiling water..

 

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, Sensei said:

I just bought new, fresh (dry) pasta, and on it it says "put 100 g of pasta per 1 liter of boiling water, slowly enough not to interrupt the boiling of the water".

Let's check your method with tap water, no boiling water..

 

I think the tricky bit is to figure out the temperature for a volume. I think what I remember was to start with 2l per 454g package, add salt, set to high or medium high and then wait until it boils, turn down temperature to simmer and check how long it takes. Depending on how long it takes to boil I am guessing that the whole process might take up to 20 minutes, with probably less than 5 minutes of boiling.

I have never tried that myself, to be honest. I have got Italian friends and I want to keep them. 

[TheVat]

5 hours ago, exchemist said:

Why is phytate a problem? I see it binds to various minerals and impedes their absorption, but only in the meal containing it, surely? 

I really don't know if it's a problem where normal absorption prevails.  A nutritionist friend often steered people towards "overnight oats."  And the same with brown rice.  When I lived briefly in an Asian community, soaking was a big thing, and people said it also reduced arsenic levels - a problem with a lot of US grown rice.