My 21st Century Automobile Dream: Preston Tucker had his dream and Big Three shot it down.

[JohnDBarrow]

If I were to have my way, I would build

1. safe
2. affordable
3. energy-efficient
4. green-renewable-energy-using
5. practical
6. comfortable
7. neatly-constructed
8. long-lasting
9. mechanically reliable
10. roomy
11. good-looking
12. solid
13. quiet
14. convenient-to-drive
15. American-built
16. low-maintenance

automobiles, light-duty trucks, vans and sport-utility wagons for Americans mainly.

[exchemist]

1 hour ago, JohnDBarrow said:

If I were to have my way, I would build

1. safe
2. affordable
3. energy-efficient
4. green-renewable-energy-using
5. practical
6. comfortable
7. neatly-constructed
8. long-lasting
9. mechanically reliable
10. roomy
11. good-looking
12. solid
13. quiet
14. convenient-to-drive
15. American-built
16. low-maintenance

automobiles, light-duty trucks, vans and sport-utility wagons for Americans mainly.

So what?

[swansont]

!

Moderator Note

This is a discussion board, not your blog

 

[Phi for All]

There are only a couple of things on that list that are objective, that don't rely on your personal preferences (which interest me NOT AT ALL). Some of them seem downright dumb, like being "neatly constructed". You mention Tucker in the title, then apparently change your mind and just start listing things you like. 

One of the few objective listings is "American-built", but I'm guessing you're an anti-union person, so I can also guess you want this car dirt cheap and don't care if the workers aren't paid well, as long as the car is practical and quiet and roomy and good-looking enough for you.

Your dream is basically my 1997 Honda Civic, built here in the US.

[JohnDBarrow]

4 hours ago, exchemist said:

So what?

Since I'm indeed not operating a blog here, I will pose questions to the automotive technology pundits here. Is what I wish for feasibly possible from an engineering standpoint? My dream is not a 1997 Honda Civic. I want the roominess and comfort level of a 1970's Lincoln Town Car as part of my criteria. I want green renewable energy to power it as well. Is there any EV on the market today that YOU know of that offers the roominess and ride comfort of the typical large American luxury car of the 20th century? Does an earth-friendly automobile running on renewable energy have to necessarily not be fun and/or enjoyable to own and drive? Must sensible EV's be strictly cramped rough-riding econoboxes? 

Basically, I want a "carbon-footprint-less" 1965 Cadillac or 1979 Lincoln Continental built with Toyota reliability and longevity and Mercedes-Benz solidity combined with the level of safety and crashworthiness Volvo has long been renowned for. Sound like a very tall order? 

Yes, I am an American of pride and would indeed want my dreamy-but-sensible cars to be produced upon American soil with an American Anglo-Saxon name like BARROW attached to their bodies. I absolutely hate the Detroit Big Three.  FORD, DODGE, CHRYSLER, PLYMOUTH, OLDS and LINCOLN are typical Anglo-Saxon names. There is nothing elegant that rings in my ears about the name TESLA. MERCEDES and ROLLS ROYCE sound even more elegant. 

Edited August 13 by JohnDBarrow

[exchemist]

19 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

Since I'm indeed not operating a blog here, I will pose questions to the automotive technology pundits here. Is what I wish for feasibly possible from an engineering standpoint? My dream is not a 1997 Honda Civic. I want the roominess and comfort level of a 1970's Lincoln Town Car as part of my criteria. I want green renewable energy to power it as well. Is there any EV on the market today that YOU know of that offers the roominess and ride comfort of the typical large American luxury car of the 20th century? Does an earth-friendly automobile running on renewable energy have to necessarily not be fun and/or enjoyable to own and drive? Must sensible EV's be strictly cramped rough-riding econoboxes? 

Basically, I want a "carbon-footprint-less" 1965 Cadillac or 1979 Lincoln Continental built with Toyota reliability and longevity and Mercedes-Benz solidity combined with the level of safety and crashworthiness Volvo has long been renowned for. Sound like a very tall order? 

Yes, I am an American of pride and would indeed want my dream cars to be produced upon American soil with an American Anglo-Saxon name like BARROW attached to their bodies. I absolutely hate the Detroit Big Three.  

OK so it’s yet another thinly disguised attempt to pour scorn on the change to a non-fossil fuel dependent society. What a tosser you are. There are plenty of high-performance and luxurious EVs, though naturally not built nearly as badly, as unsafe, or handling as diabolically as some of the dreadful American models you mention. Just go on any car maker’s website. 

[JohnDBarrow]

How am I scorning the move away from fossil fuels? I hate paying $3 something (American dollars) a gallon for gasoline in Iowa with 10% Ethanol. It even hit $four-something last summer here. I think solid-state batteries as Toyota is now developing and hopefully perfecting will soon be the biggest boon to the automobile industry since Henry Ford's mass-produced Model T.  I am not stupid enough to believe that fossil fuels' days are not numbered and that gasoline will be available to burn forever more. 

Edited August 13 by JohnDBarrow

[Phi for All]

31 minutes ago, JohnDBarrow said:

My dream is not a 1997 Honda Civic.

It's ironic that your attitude about cars and driving in general, including all the complaints, are often the very source of heavy traffic, the thing that makes most of us hate driving. Meta-studies have shown that the cause of traffic is simple: brake lights. Stepping on your brakes takes energy out of the system and signals others who see you to do the same. Who causes more people to step on their brakes? People who focus on their own needs and comforts while driving, rather than reading the road conditions and cooperating with the drivers around them.

Driving such a mass of metal at high speeds is dangerous if you're inconsiderate. If driving were dancing, it shouldn't be break dancing or disco, it should be ballroom dancing, where you need to cooperate and make it easy for others to enjoy doing what you're also doing right next to them.

Your dream car sounds like you favor competition over cooperation. My CIVIC helps my society. Make sure your BARROW doesn't put you in an early grave.

[JohnDBarrow]

Until the likes of Barrow automobiles are ever produced, it will have to be Toyota for me. My '95 Corolla is sensible, dependable and good on gas still. It just isn't as plush as a 1970's Lincoln Town Car over bumps or as roomy as one in the driver seat. The street potholes of Iowa, Oklahoma, Texas, Colorado and Wyoming are even worse than the city cobblestones of Germany.  Back in 1994, I was in the American army overseas and drove my Corvette over the streets of Nurnberg, so I can attest to that level of roughness. The Autobahn was worlds smoother. I hope tomorrow's EV's will actually be a joy to drive as well as be friendly toward Mother Earth. Middle American states don't like to invest money in baby-bottom-smooth roads. 

Edited August 13 by JohnDBarrow

[TheVat]

5 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

Yes, I am an American of pride and would indeed want my dreamy-but-sensible cars to be produced upon American soil with an American Anglo-Saxon name like BARROW attached to their bodies. I absolutely hate the Detroit Big Three.  FORD, DODGE, CHRYSLER, PLYMOUTH, OLDS and LINCOLN are typical Anglo-Saxon names. There is nothing elegant that rings in my ears about the name TESLA. MERCEDES and ROLLS ROYCE sound even more elegant. 

Chrysler is not Anglo-Saxon, you twit.  

I want the three minutes of my life back I spent reading this inane thread.

[JohnDBarrow]

5 hours ago, TheVat said:

Chrysler is not Anglo-Saxon, you twit.  

I want the three minutes of my life back I spent reading this inane thread.

Well, it sounds American to me, you wiggy old goat.  Nobody twisted your arm to read my material, brother. 

[JohnDBarrow]

CHRYSLER comes from Swiss or Germanic origins according to a quick Google search. In German it is KREISLER. 

[exchemist]

13 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

How am I scorning the move away from fossil fuels? I hate paying $3 something (American dollars) a gallon for gasoline in Iowa with 10% Ethanol. It even hit $four-something last summer here. I think solid-state batteries as Toyota is now developing and hopefully perfecting will soon be the biggest boon to the automobile industry since Henry Ford's mass-produced Model T.  I am not stupid enough to believe that fossil fuels' days are not numbered and that gasoline will be available to burn forever more. 

Because you  scornfully ask whether EVs have not to be fun to drive, and must be cramped, rough-riding “econoboxes”. You are implying that is what they are like and dismissing them as unattractive on that basis.
 

You have not checked your facts and are merely reciting ill-informed  prejudices. There are electric versions of a large number of cars these days and there are some, e.g. models from Tesla, that are luxurious, silent, and offer neck-snapping acceleration.

[Sensei]

18 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

I hate paying $3 something (American dollars) a gallon for gasoline in Iowa with 10% Ethanol. It even hit $four-something last summer here.

Wrong. You're lucky to have such cheap gasoline. Compare with the rest of the G20 world:

 

"Average gasoline price in the Group of 20 in June 2023, by member country (in U.S. dollars per liter)"

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1406584/g20-gasoline-average-price-by-country/

1 gallon = 3.8 L

 

In European countries, excise taxes and VAT are added, making up a significant portion of their budgets (so basically their governments screw their citizens - now financial experts wonder what they will do with EV which people can plug to their home installations, which means no income to budget from this sector anymore, unless they will somehow forbid such activity).

Here, the retail price of 1L gasoline is $1.6. Before excise tax and VAT, the price is.. $0.9 per L.

 

In addition, the largest gasoline producers and distributors are state-owned. And the corporations send the money they earn year after year to the budget as dividends.

18 hours ago, JohnDBarrow said:

I am not stupid enough to believe that fossil fuels' days are not numbered and that gasoline will be available to burn forever more. 

Ethanol can be made from CO₂ and H₂O and solar energy. The automotive industry can still use liquid fuels (which is desirable for some applications).

 

Edited August 14 by Sensei

[LuckyR]

What makes for automotive excellence goes far beyond the carbon footprint of it's fuel.