Harris vs Trump;

[iNow]

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Huxley's vision is a much closer approximation to our present situation, but give it a decade and we're back to George's. 

I see it more as both/and rather than either/or

[dimreepr]

17 minutes ago, iNow said:

I see it more as both/and rather than either/or

If only we knew which...

[iNow]

34 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

If only we knew which...

I'm saying it's both. Unsure what you're saying. Which... what, exactly?

[dimreepr]

21 hours ago, iNow said:

I'm saying it's both. Unsure what you're saying. Which... what, exactly?

It was meant as a joke, sry. 🖖

But I do see a fundamental difference between the two:

1984 is an obvious dystopia maintained by power and fear.

BNW is far from an obvious dystopia maintained by want and aspirations.

[npts2020]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:12 AM, MSC said:

You could stand to be a bit more diplomatic is all and be a bit more aware of the highly charged nature of this particular thread. Everyone is pretty pissed and frustrated, not with you just in general. What I will say is that your words have either been mischaracterised or could have been put better by you. 

Your claim; voters are too lazy/inept to educate themselves about the issues. 

 

If you can think of any way of making the above statement in bold any clearer, I am all for that clarification, so help me out. Apparently, the "/" means something other than the and-or I always thought it meant.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 9:12 AM, MSC said:

So in response to this, what would be your advice to future campaigns? 

I don't know if there is a realistic solution to give advice about. It all comes down to education and access to factual information. Maybe make education more like entertainment?

 

On 11/14/2024 at 9:12 AM, MSC said:

How do you expect working people to pull the ability to teach themselves about complex issues out of thin air or to guard themselves from manipulative and biased news sources and only read the legitimate sources, when they have to pull 40-80 hour work weeks just to get by, juggle kids, family, friends, doctors appointments etc? Do you have any clue how busy the average person's life truly is? 

What I will agree with, is that voters are having a lot of trouble educating themselves about the issues and it is for a variety of factors, variables and on the individual level not all of those are going to apply to everyone. Lazy and inept applies only to those it is true of, but that is not the story of every or even most voters.

I don't expect that. This is why there might not be a realistic solution. The rest exactly describes a sector of the lazy/inept people to which I am referring. Everyone on Earth is given 164 hours every week and the struggle to "succeed" is real but I have noticed little difference in the political awareness between friends who work all the time and those who seemingly don't work at all. If anything, the busier ones seem to have better knowledge of the candidates and issues so lack of time probably isn't the reason. IMO it has more to do with interests and seemingly few people are interested in politics until they can see it directly affects them. The problem is, voting is politics and when you do it without bothering to make yourself informed, you are entering an auto race without first having learned to drive. I wholeheartedly agree that process of educating ones self is not easy or necessarily exciting but it is something that every voter needs to do. I am not claiming that all or even a majority of voters fit into the lazy/inept category I mention but will assert it is a large enough plurality to have significant effects on elections.

 

On 11/14/2024 at 9:12 AM, MSC said:

One of the things that further isolates members of a cult from the outside world, is the outside world viewing them as stupid and foolish rather than someone who was taken advantage of when they were vulnerable. It's a kind of victim blaming that goes nowhere and only serves to push people right back to the cult. 

It is certainly tempting to fall into the pattern of viewing the other side as somehow less than you, stupid, cruel, evil etc, especially when that is their bread and butter and they definitely see you as stupid, inferior and evil to them, but that really is just playing into the very narrative that made them vulnerable to cult manipulation, which comes through not just the acts of the higher ups in the know of the abuse of their supporters, but peer pressure from other supporters.  

Agreed, except I am pretty sure I stated that the lazy/inept was a generalization and why. 

 

On 11/14/2024 at 9:12 AM, MSC said:

Now the entire claim here of laziness and ineptitude that follows the average person around like a dark cloud over there heads, comes from a narrative started by wealthy people, the people paying wages and salaries, to explain the ill fortune and struggle for financial security and economic stability that is the reality of the average person. A manufactured reality where lack of fair payment for a person's time and effort is the reason for the struggle, but is blamed on the very things you are claiming in quite broad terms is what all these voters suffer from. Laziness and ineptitude. 

I assure you that I am not wealthy and wasn't aware that there was an ongoing narrative from the upper class about people being lazy/inept about educating themselves for voting. If you are talking about something other than that, you are bringing up subjects I have never mentioned in this thread.

[iNow]

This whole annoying series of exchanges could’ve been avoided had you simply said some or even many voters are XYZ instead of painting everyone with the same wide wrong brush 

[swansont]

3 hours ago, iNow said:

This whole annoying series of exchanges could’ve been avoided had you simply said some or even many voters are XYZ instead of painting everyone with the same wide wrong brush 

OTOH, I think part of the issue is taking an imprecise/ambiguous statement and assuming that there can be only one narrow interpretation of it. 

[dimreepr]

23 hours ago, npts2020 said:

The problem is, voting is politics and when you do it without bothering to make yourself informed, you are entering an auto race without first having learned to drive.

The problem is, you're assuming people know when they're not propperly informed; it's human nature to assume one is correct when what one is taught is by a trusted source. It often takes a leap of faith to question a trusted source, ironically. 😉

[iNow]

More on the vibes vs facts and news sources being predictor of voter behavior. 
 

Source: Pew Research Center; Graph and commentary from Axios

“Conservatives have a significant advantage among news influencers — a major part of the trickle-down information ecosystem.

• Influencers on most of the biggest platforms are more likely to lean right than left, Axios Communicators author Eleanor Hawkins writes from new Pew data.
• Male influencers also outnumber women on those platforms, by almost a 2-1 margin.”

[geordief]

10 minutes ago, iNow said:

More on the vibes vs facts and news sources being predictor of voter behavior. 
 

Source: Pew Research Center; Graph and commentary from Axios

“Conservatives have a significant advantage among news influencers — a major part of the trickle-down information ecosystem.

• Influencers on most of the biggest platforms are more likely to lean right than left, Axios Communicators author Eleanor Hawkins writes from new Pew data.
• Male influencers also outnumber women on those platforms, by almost a 2-1 margin.”

 

Would that also likely  represent the overall   population (on those platforms ,none of which I personally take part in) or  just  the  political leanings of the  "news influencers" in them?(do you think)

Edit :males are more trusted as influencers,perhaps and they skewed right in this election?

 

Edited November 18 by geordief

[iNow]

Depends on the platform. For those listed, the answer was embedded above