Is money and wealth evil?

[nec209]

7 minutes ago, joigus said:

God can't handle money.

It is funny before I got into religion I always thought God would be more similar to Star Trek. 

May be Star Trek world is Haven where poverty, poor and homeless is abolish and all money and wealth is abolish. 

Star Trek seem very far left.

Edited August 15 by nec209

[joigus]

1 minute ago, nec209 said:

It is funny before I got into religion I always thought God would be more similar to Star Trek. 

May be Star Trek world is Haven where poverty, poor and homeless is abolish and all money and wealth is abolish. 

I'm getting the impression that you are a Christian believer. 

[nec209]

32 minutes ago, Externet said:

Borrowed from the web:

https://search.brave.com/search?q=bible+poor+and+wealthy&source=web&summary=1&summary_og=6e01674f017725f638e097

-------------------------------------

Bible poor and wealthy

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing that both are under God’s sovereignty (1 Samuel 2:7). Here are some key insights:

• God’s equality: Proverbs 22:2 declares that “the rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.” This verse highlights that both the wealthy and the poor are created by God and have equal value in His eyes.
• No distinction: The Bible does not teach that poverty or wealth is inherently sinful or blessed. Rather, it emphasizes that both are neutral, and it is how one uses their resources that matters (Matthew 25:14-30).
• Responsibility to the poor: The Bible consistently calls believers to care for the poor and vulnerable (Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Psalm 41:1-3, James 1:27). This is seen as a demonstration of faith and obedience to God’s commands.
• Warning against wealth’s dangers: The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth, such as arrogance (1 Timothy 6:17) and a lack of spiritual focus (Matthew 19:23-24). Jesus taught that it is difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God due to their attachment to material possessions (Mark 10:23-25).
• God’s provision: The Bible affirms that God provides for both the rich and the poor (Psalm 104:28, Matthew 6:25-34). It encourages believers to trust in God’s provision, rather than relying solely on their wealth or poverty.

Key Verses

• 1 Samuel 2:7 - “The Lord makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts.”
• Proverbs 22:2 - “The rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.”
• James 2:2-5 - “My Christian brothers, our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of shining-greatness. Since your trust is in Him, do not look on one person as more important than another. What if a man comes into your church wearing a gold ring and good clothes? And at the same time a poor man comes wearing old clothes…”

Scriptural Perspectives on Poverty and Prosperity

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, highlighting both their positive and negative aspects.

Poverty

• God is concerned with the poor and needy (Psalm 72:12-13, Proverbs 31:8-9)
• Poverty can be a result of God’s humbling or testing (1 Samuel 2:7, Job 5:7)
• The poor can be rich in faith and spiritual wealth (Matthew 5:3, Luke 12:15)
• Examples of poor individuals who trusted and served God include Job, David, and the widow who offered her last meal to Elijah (Job 1:1, 1 Samuel 20:42, 1 Kings 17:8-16)

Wealth

• Wealth can be a blessing from God, indicating His pleasure and favor (Deuteronomy 28:1-8, Genesis 13:2, 1 Kings 10:23)
• However, wealth can also lead to pride, greed, and spiritual decay (Proverbs 30:8-9, Luke 12:15)
• The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth and materialism, encouraging believers to use their resources wisely and generously (Matthew 6:19-20, Luke 12:15, 1 Timothy 6:17-19)

Key Principles

• God is the one who gives and takes away wealth (Job 1:21, 1 Samuel 2:7)
• Wealth is not an indicator of one’s standing with God (Psalm 73, Jeremiah 12:1)
• True riches come from a right relationship with God, not from material possessions (Matthew 6:33, Luke 12:15)

In conclusion, the Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing the importance of faith, generosity, and a right relationship with God, regardless of one’s economic circumstances.

Conclusion

The Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing God’s sovereignty, equality, and provision for all people. While wealth can be a blessing, it also carries risks, and believers are called to use their resources responsibly and to care for the poor and vulnerable. Ultimately, our trust and focus should be on God, rather than our material circumstances.

Religion refers to the poor of spirit, not in material wealth

So God is okay with this world it seems? It seems God is conservative? I always thought God was liberal at least when came to economics.

12 minutes ago, joigus said:

I'm getting the impression that you are a Christian believer. 

I believe in more Star Trek society. I view this world very sinful but does not meat the Christian view it seems.

[zapatos]

23 minutes ago, nec209 said:

But by that stands it seems God is okay with class hierarchy and the poor and ultra rich?

 

That's your interpretation. We cannot have any meaningful conversation about what a supernatural being happens to be thinking.

If you want to know if the bible says it is a sin to be rich, the answer is no. Possessing money is not a sin.

If you want to know what god is thinking, that is impossible, even in the religion section.

3 minutes ago, nec209 said:

It seems God is conservative?

Uh, yeah, if you are talking about the Christian god who sentences you to eternal damnation for trying to avoid AIDS.

5 minutes ago, nec209 said:

So God is okay with this world it seems?

He made it, so I would guess so.

[nec209]

1 minute ago, zapatos said:

That's your interpretation. We cannot have any meaningful conversation about what a supernatural being happens to be thinking.

If you want to know if the bible says it is a sin to be rich, the answer is no. Possessing money is not a sin.

If you want to know what god is thinking, that is impossible, even in the religion section.

But in sense base on the Bible at the time God was okay with the way the world is. Has money and wealth will lead to class hierarchy and if God allows the rich and wealthy that is very sinful in my book but in God view does see that way. So God seems kinda more conservative and is okay with rich and wealthy.

My God before Christian was different God. Like I say my God was more far left when it came to economics. But the Christian God seems different and more conservative.

[iNow]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

MAY be if you read more on this you would get that information but you are too lazy to read more

Ok

[swansont]

34 minutes ago, zapatos said:

If you want to know if the bible says it is a sin to be rich, the answer is no. Possessing money is not a sin.

But wanting to be rich is. Avarice.

[joigus]

Quote

And Jesus said unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, It is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

Matthew 19:23-26 American Standard Version (ASV)

Apparently it's not advisable to be rich in any case.

[nec209]

7 minutes ago, joigus said:

Matthew 19:23-26 American Standard Version (ASV)

Apparently it's not advisable to be rich in any case.

That passage seems to contradict the other passage what Jesus says and the other passage in the bible. 
 

So you left with being rich is okay than later on rich people hard to find the kingdom of heaven is contradict the other passage one passage saying one thing and other passage saying other.

[iNow]

22 minutes ago, nec209 said:

That passage seems to contradict the other passage what Jesus says and the other passage in the bible.

Which is why you can’t use the Bible as a reliable reference. It’s an anthology where different authors give conflicting instructions. 

[joigus]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

So you left with being rich is okay than later on rich people hard to find the kingdom of heaven is contradict the other passage one passage saying one thing and other passage saying other.

In @iNow's last comment is the potential for your mind to finally put this matter to rest.

Or... you can go back to Star Trek. Science fiction at least tries to give you an appearance of rationality.

Edited August 16 by joigus
minor correction

[Externet]

11 hours ago, nec209 said:

That passage seems to contradict the other passage what Jesus says and the other passage in the bible. 

The bible is a collection of re-shaped text pieces from varied authors glued together with care about not stepping on itself and after centuries of censorship at closed doors by the pope affiliates in order to present to the believers, a tailored credible fairy tale guidance even in the senseless passages by using the 'faith' foundation basis.

[nec209]

Also from what I understand the Bible and church did not speak out about slavery or the monarchy. The Church does not say the monarchy is sinful or slavery is sinful nor does the Bible.

And the reference in the text in the Bible supports slavery. So it seems the Bible and the church is far from being left but very conservative.

This along with money and wealth not being sinful or being millionaires or billionaires is not sinful probably explains why most Cristian’s are conservative and vote conservative politically.

Edited August 16 by nec209

[zapatos]

1 minute ago, nec209 said:

Also from what I understand the Bible and church did not speak out about slavery or the monarchy. The Church does not say the monarchy is sinful or slavery is sinful nor does the Bible.

And the reference in the text in the Bible supports slavery. So it seems the Bible and the church is far from being left but very conservative.

This along with money and wealth not being sinful or being millionaires or billionaires is not sinful probably explains why most Cristian’s are conservative and vote conservative politically.

Are you even reading any of the responses you are receiving?

[nec209]

28 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Are you even reading any of the responses you are receiving?

I did that what they said. They post the two text one liberal and other conservative.

 

 

 

That supports conservative view that being rich is not sin.

 

Bible poor and wealthy

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing that both are under God’s sovereignty (1 Samuel 2:7). Here are some key insights:

• God’s equality: Proverbs 22:2 declares that “the rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.” This verse highlights that both the wealthy and the poor are created by God and have equal value in His eyes.
• No distinction: The Bible does not teach that poverty or wealth is inherently sinful or blessed. Rather, it emphasizes that both are neutral, and it is how one uses their resources that matters (Matthew 25:14-30).
• Responsibility to the poor: The Bible consistently calls believers to care for the poor and vulnerable (Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Psalm 41:1-3, James 1:27). This is seen as a demonstration of faith and obedience to God’s commands.
• Warning against wealth’s dangers: The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth, such as arrogance (1 Timothy 6:17) and a lack of spiritual focus (Matthew 19:23-24). Jesus taught that it is difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God due to their attachment to material possessions (Mark 10:23-25).
• God’s provision: The Bible affirms that God provides for both the rich and the poor (Psalm 104:28, Matthew 6:25-34). It encourages believers to trust in God’s provision, rather than relying solely on their wealth or poverty.

Key Verses

• 1 Samuel 2:7 - “The Lord makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts.”
• Proverbs 22:2 - “The rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.”
• James 2:2-5 - “My Christian brothers, our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of shining-greatness. Since your trust is in Him, do not look on one person as more important than another. What if a man comes into your church wearing a gold ring and good clothes? And at the same time a poor man comes wearing old clothes…”

Scriptural Perspectives on Poverty and Prosperity

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, highlighting both their positive and negative aspects.

Poverty

• God is concerned with the poor and needy (Psalm 72:12-13, Proverbs 31:8-9)
• Poverty can be a result of God’s humbling or testing (1 Samuel 2:7, Job 5:7)
• The poor can be rich in faith and spiritual wealth (Matthew 5:3, Luke 12:15)
• Examples of poor individuals who trusted and served God include Job, David, and the widow who offered her last meal to Elijah (Job 1:1, 1 Samuel 20:42, 1 Kings 17:8-16)

Wealth

• Wealth can be a blessing from God, indicating His pleasure and favor (Deuteronomy 28:1-8, Genesis 13:2, 1 Kings 10:23)
• However, wealth can also lead to pride, greed, and spiritual decay (Proverbs 30:8-9, Luke 12:15)
• The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth and materialism, encouraging believers to use their resources wisely and generously (Matthew 6:19-20, Luke 12:15, 1 Timothy 6:17-19)

Key Principles

• God is the one who gives and takes away wealth (Job 1:21, 1 Samuel 2:7)
• Wealth is not an indicator of one’s standing with God (Psalm 73, Jeremiah 12:1)
• True riches come from a right relationship with God, not from material possessions (Matthew 6:33, Luke 12:15)

In conclusion, the Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing the importance of faith, generosity, and a right relationship with God, regardless of one’s economic circumstances.

Conclusion

The Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing God’s sovereignty, equality, and provision for all people. While wealth can be a blessing, it also carries risks, and believers are called to use their resources responsibly and to care for the poor and vulnerable. Ultimately, our trust and focus should be on God, rather than our material circumstances.

 

 

 

That supports view rich people have hard time going to haven so this is liberal text.

 

And Jesus said unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, It is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

 

 

But the church is conservative and does not speak out about the rich.

30 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Are you even reading any of the responses you are receiving?

Read this.

In Paul’s letters to the Ephesians, Paul motivates early Christian servants to remain loyal and obedient to their masters like they are to Christ. In Ephesians 6:5–8, Paul states “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ”.[101] Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22–24, 1 Timothy 6:1–2, and Titus 2:9–10.

 

So the Bible supports slavery.

46 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Are you even reading any of the responses you are receiving?

Tell me where the church was speaking out about monarchy or slavery?

Edited August 16 by nec209

[swansont]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

And the reference in the text in the Bible supports slavery. So it seems the Bible and the church is far from being left but very conservative.

The Bible is comprised of an old and a new testament, which have different tones. Perhaps it would be useful to differentiate between them.

[nec209]

12 minutes ago, swansont said:

The Bible is comprised of an old and a new testament, which have different tones. Perhaps it would be useful to differentiate between them.

Is it the old testament are more conservative than the new testaments? It still leads to confusion like did God changed is view where the text above it not a sin to be really rich and wealthy than later on saying.

And Jesus said unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, It is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

This leads to confusion of text. But from what I understand the Church is not teaching that it is sin to really rich and wealthy so the church seems really conservatives.

On page one yes may be some priest spoke out about slavery but from church point of view they supported slavery it seems and did not speak out about it.

17 hours ago, Externet said:

Borrowed from the web:

https://search.brave.com/search?q=bible+poor+and+wealthy&source=web&summary=1&summary_og=6e01674f017725f638e097

-------------------------------------

Bible poor and wealthy

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing that both are under God’s sovereignty (1 Samuel 2:7). Here are some key insights:

• God’s equality: Proverbs 22:2 declares that “the rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.” This verse highlights that both the wealthy and the poor are created by God and have equal value in His eyes.
• No distinction: The Bible does not teach that poverty or wealth is inherently sinful or blessed. Rather, it emphasizes that both are neutral, and it is how one uses their resources that matters (Matthew 25:14-30).
• Responsibility to the poor: The Bible consistently calls believers to care for the poor and vulnerable (Deuteronomy 15:7-11, Psalm 41:1-3, James 1:27). This is seen as a demonstration of faith and obedience to God’s commands.
• Warning against wealth’s dangers: The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth, such as arrogance (1 Timothy 6:17) and a lack of spiritual focus (Matthew 19:23-24). Jesus taught that it is difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of God due to their attachment to material possessions (Mark 10:23-25).
• God’s provision: The Bible affirms that God provides for both the rich and the poor (Psalm 104:28, Matthew 6:25-34). It encourages believers to trust in God’s provision, rather than relying solely on their wealth or poverty.

Key Verses

• 1 Samuel 2:7 - “The Lord makes poor and rich; He brings low, He also exalts.”
• Proverbs 22:2 - “The rich and the poor meet together: Jehovah is the maker of them all.”
• James 2:2-5 - “My Christian brothers, our Lord Jesus Christ is the Lord of shining-greatness. Since your trust is in Him, do not look on one person as more important than another. What if a man comes into your church wearing a gold ring and good clothes? And at the same time a poor man comes wearing old clothes…”

Scriptural Perspectives on Poverty and Prosperity

The Bible presents a nuanced view of poverty and wealth, highlighting both their positive and negative aspects.

Poverty

• God is concerned with the poor and needy (Psalm 72:12-13, Proverbs 31:8-9)
• Poverty can be a result of God’s humbling or testing (1 Samuel 2:7, Job 5:7)
• The poor can be rich in faith and spiritual wealth (Matthew 5:3, Luke 12:15)
• Examples of poor individuals who trusted and served God include Job, David, and the widow who offered her last meal to Elijah (Job 1:1, 1 Samuel 20:42, 1 Kings 17:8-16)

Wealth

• Wealth can be a blessing from God, indicating His pleasure and favor (Deuteronomy 28:1-8, Genesis 13:2, 1 Kings 10:23)
• However, wealth can also lead to pride, greed, and spiritual decay (Proverbs 30:8-9, Luke 12:15)
• The Bible warns against the dangers of wealth and materialism, encouraging believers to use their resources wisely and generously (Matthew 6:19-20, Luke 12:15, 1 Timothy 6:17-19)

Key Principles

• God is the one who gives and takes away wealth (Job 1:21, 1 Samuel 2:7)
• Wealth is not an indicator of one’s standing with God (Psalm 73, Jeremiah 12:1)
• True riches come from a right relationship with God, not from material possessions (Matthew 6:33, Luke 12:15)

In conclusion, the Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing the importance of faith, generosity, and a right relationship with God, regardless of one’s economic circumstances.

Conclusion

The Bible presents a balanced view of poverty and wealth, emphasizing God’s sovereignty, equality, and provision for all people. While wealth can be a blessing, it also carries risks, and believers are called to use their resources responsibly and to care for the poor and vulnerable. Ultimately, our trust and focus should be on God, rather than our material circumstances.

Religion refers to the poor of spirit, not in material wealth

Also base on this it seems God was okay that there was poor people and homeless people and really wealthy rich people. But wanted christians to help the poor. Base on this.

The Bible consistently calls believers to care for the poor and vulnerable

So it seems God was okay with money and wealth and seen nothing wrong with that.

So this may explain why the Church does not speak out about millionaires and billionaires being sinful. 

 

[joigus]

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

Quote

In Paul’s letters to the Ephesians, Paul motivates early Christian servants to remain loyal and obedient to their masters like they are to Christ. In Ephesians 6:5–8, Paul states “Slaves, be obedient to your human masters with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ”.[101] Similar statements regarding obedient slaves can be found in Colossians 3:22–24, 1 Timothy 6:1–2, and Titus 2:9–10.

 

1 hour ago, nec209 said:

So the Bible supports slavery.

 

Presentism? We tend to see ourselves as morally superior to our ancestors. If any of us had been born in, say, 70 AD, we probably would look upon slavery as a hard, but inevitable fact of life. It is only through undefatigable rational discourse that we get rid of these things.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

And, again, the Bible has many levels, different addenda (Christianity), and reflects social reality in the Middle East through the major part of both the Bronze and the Iron Age, which is a quite long period of time.

7 minutes ago, nec209 said:

It still leads to confusion like did God changed is view where the text above it not a sin to be really rich and wealthy than later on saying.

God is a human construct. It changes (its/his/her/their) view because people making it up change theirs about what "God thinks". Doesn't it make a lot more sense that way?

[swansont]

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

Is it the old testament are more conservative than the new testaments? It still leads to confusion like did God changed is view where the text above it not a sin to be really rich and wealthy than later on saying.

And Jesus said unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, It is hard for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven. And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

 

This leads to confusion of text.

Well, it’s the Bible. It’s not like this isn’t on-brand.

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

So this may explain why the Church does not speak out about millionaires and billionaires being sinful. 

Millionaire and billionaire are modern concepts relative to Christianity, so that’s not too surprising 

[nec209]

31 minutes ago, swansont said:

Well, it’s the Bible. It’s not like this isn’t on-brand.

Millionaire and billionaire are modern concepts relative to Christianity, so that’s not too surprising 

What do you mean by modern concepts? There was really rich wealthy people back in that time.

 

[zapatos]

35 minutes ago, nec209 said:

What do you mean by modern concepts? There was really rich wealthy people back in that time.

 

Billions of what? There were no dollars or euros back then. Wealth was measured in land, slaves, and chests of silver.

[nec209]

19 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Billions of what? There were no dollars or euros back then. Wealth was measured in land, slaves, and chests of silver.

Are you saying they did not have any currency? 

[Sensei]

Quote

Is money and wealth evil?

Some people will do anything to get money, commit countless crimes, will do anything to keep the wealth they have..

How to find out if a husband and wife love each other in a poor family? Give them a Lotto win and observe what happens later..

Without money, there would be no drug producers and drug dealers, except for those who are addicted.

 

Edited August 16 by Sensei

[swansont]

2 hours ago, nec209 said:

What do you mean by modern concepts? There was really rich wealthy people back in that time.

 

Were they called millionaires?

(hint: is there a Roman numeral for a million?)

[nec209]

3 minutes ago, swansont said:

Were they called millionaires?

(hint: is there a Roman numeral for a million?)

So you saying people did not have that much money. But there was really rich wealthy people in that time.

How much money would back account for rich person go up to if not million than thousands?

Could inflation explain back in that time? So person had 1,000 would that be million today? May be 50,000 would be billion today?