joigus Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, John John said: If I am not explaining this well enough then you could ask a question so I can pull it together for you. You've been explained, quite correctly I think, what a theory is as we understand it in science. Can you make a prediction? Or explain the workings of thermal engines? After all yours is a theory of everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 9 minutes ago, John John said: If I am not explaining this well enough then you could ask a question so I can pull it together for you. I did, and you said... 2 hours ago, John John said: I can't remember. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 4 minutes ago, joigus said: You've been explained, quite correctly I think, what a theory is as we understand it in science. Can you make a prediction? Or explain the workings of thermal engines? After all yours is a theory of everything. The atoms that make up a thought are the same as all the atoms in the universe, We are the thinking atoms that reside in and among all matter. It is the mind that segregates giving things names and numbers but the universe does not work like that just a group of atoms in our heads that likes to think in this way. 4 minutes ago, zapatos said: I did, and you said... I wasn't talking to you, was I? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, John John said: The atoms that make up a thought are the same as all the atoms in the universe, We are the thinking atoms that reside in and among all matter. It is the mind that segregates giving things names and numbers but the universe does not work like that just a group of atoms in our heads that likes to think in this way. This doesn't make any sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 minutes ago, John John said: I wasn't talking to you, was I? Do you have any idea how a forum works? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 45 minutes ago, John John said: As I stated before all things are vibrating particles, so all things are one and the same at the smallest level. This isn't something you can "state". Even string theory explains rather than asserts, and it does so with lots of good maths. 46 minutes ago, John John said: We are in the universe and all things are a part of us as we are a part of them. Is this a "we're all made of stardust" argument? Again, very specious. In point of fact, almost all of the universe is NOT a part of us. How many grams of you are there in the galaxy HD1, for instance? 48 minutes ago, John John said: It is like water in a bucket each part of the water is the water, We are a part of the universe so we are the universe, and the universe is us and all things. No. The universe is the bucket and nothing exists outside of it that we can observe. The water might be water in one part of the bucket, but elsewhere it might have given up its O to other molecules to form different compounds. Just because we're "part" of the universe doesn't mean we're the whole universe. You're straying heavily from mainstream science, and I don't think this line of reasoning will help you learn anything meaningful. 55 minutes ago, John John said: The universe contains itself as one unit. So how does this help you understand what science has determined is happening in the observable universe? To me, saying the universe is a "unit" implies there could be more than one. It's fairly critical to modern cosmology that we treat the universe as all there is, not like a balloon that's expanding into some other space. 11 minutes ago, John John said: The atoms that make up a thought are the same as all the atoms in the universe, We are the thinking atoms that reside in and among all matter. Oh, wow. Here I was, using all those atoms thinking you were here to learn. Best of luck to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, joigus said: This doesn't make any sense. That is because you don't think like the universe would think if it could. We are a mind in a non mind. If one part of the water in the bucket could think it is still only water in the bucket with the non thinking water. All is one and the same, just because you can think doesn't separate you from all other things. 10 minutes ago, zapatos said: Do you have any idea how a forum works? If you wish to ask me a question you can but all you do is say I am wrong. Yes, I do know how a forum works so ask me a question relating to the topic, not a question like you just did. If you can't join in and only make silly demeaning comments I can't answer that, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 17 minutes ago, John John said: If you wish to ask me a question you can but all you do is say I am wrong. I asked you what your statement meant and you said "I can't remember". If you cannot even remember what you mean from one moment to the next that is hardly my fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Phi for All said: This isn't something you can "state". Even string theory explains rather than asserts, and it does so with lots of good maths. Is this a "we're all made of stardust" argument? Again, very specious. In point of fact, almost all of the universe is NOT a part of us. How many grams of you are there in the galaxy HD1, for instance? No. The universe is the bucket and nothing exists outside of it that we can observe. The water might be water in one part of the bucket, but elsewhere it might have given up its O to other molecules to form different compounds. Just because we're "part" of the universe doesn't mean we're the whole universe. You're straying heavily from mainstream science, and I don't think this line of reasoning will help you learn anything meaningful. So how does this help you understand what science has determined is happening in the observable universe? To me, saying the universe is a "unit" implies there could be more than one. It's fairly critical to modern cosmology that we treat the universe as all there is, not like a balloon that's expanding into some other space. Oh, wow. Here I was, using all those atoms thinking you were here to learn. Best of luck to you. If the universe itself was thinking what would it think, would it say look people over there and stars over there, Look that's where the Big Bang started, look over there I think it is my brother Mr bill Universe, and look my sister over there Miss Sharon universe. No, the universe would think I am the universe, all things. If the water in the bucket could think what would it think, I am the water, what if only one part of the water in the bucket could think, what would it think, the same I am the water in the bucket? This is the meaning of all is one and the same, just because you can think independently doesn't change reality in any way at all. 26 minutes ago, zapatos said: I asked you what your statement meant and you said "I can't remember". If you cannot even remember what you mean from one moment to the next that is hardly my fault. You need to be more specific in asking me a question I am getting confused by so many replies. So if you can just state the question relating directly to what you would like to know I will be happy to reply. Every time someone asks me a question like that I need to go back and find the original post and I find that difficult and slow. I am sorry if I have left your question hanging like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 From a dictionary: Assertion: Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof. Explanation: A statement that makes something comprehensible by describing the relevant structure or operation or circumstances etc. Try less former and try more latter. Critical to it, is providing evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 16 minutes ago, CharonY said: From a dictionary: Assertion: Something declared or stated positively, often with no support or attempt at proof. Explanation: A statement that makes something comprehensible by describing the relevant structure or operation or circumstances etc. Try less former and try more latter. Critical to it, is providing evidence. I wish some people could just ask a question without the attack, and some are just asking why without being specific. All this leads me to ponder without explanation. Some people make no effort and expect me to go over everything again rather than just make one point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharonY Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 You are making random statements and to each of them the specific question would be: a) What does it mean. b) What is this based on? Are you just sharing random thoughts without basis? These two questions are about as specific as could be, as in none of your statements you have attempted to provide details that could highlight what you are talking about. Phi tried to bring some structure into it, and it is clear in your follow-up post that you did not even try to follow the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 minutes ago, John John said: Some people make no effort and expect me to go over everything again rather than just make one point. The things you've been asserting since you got here are NOT mainstream science, which means YOU are the one who needs to make the special effort to explain them. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to support them. Why does your guesswork get special treatment when you ignore the years of study most of our members have put into learning science? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, John John said: That is because you don't think like the universe would think if it could. We are a mind in a non mind. If one part of the water in the bucket could think it is still only water in the bucket with the non thinking water. All is one and the same, just because you can think doesn't separate you from all other things. Still not making any sense. 16 minutes ago, John John said: I wish some people could just ask a question Are you fielding questions now? What is this, a press conference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 5 minutes ago, Phi for All said: The things you've been asserting since you got here are NOT mainstream science, which means YOU are the one who needs to make the special effort to explain them. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence to support them. Why does your guesswork get special treatment when you ignore the years of study most of our members have put into learning science? I don't think being asked a question relating to my post equates to special treatment, in fact I have only been insulted and ridiculed by others so where is the special treatment? Ask me a question and I will do my best to explain but you leave me with nowhere to go. 16 minutes ago, CharonY said: You are making random statements and to each of them the specific question would be: a) What does it mean. b) What is this based on? Are you just sharing random thoughts without basis? These two questions are about as specific as could be, as in none of your statements you have attempted to provide details that could highlight what you are talking about. Phi tried to bring some structure into it, and it is clear in your follow-up post that you did not even try to follow the argument. Same thing ask me, I can't go back and find what it is you are after. I haven't proposed anything that mainstream science hasn't put forward at some point. This is why you must be positive in asking a question not just why. How hard is it to ask a question relating to what you would like to know? 20 minutes ago, joigus said: Still not making any sense. Are you fielding questions now? What is this, a press conference? See you are just being silly now. You can ask silly questions but not intelligent questions relating to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joigus Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 36 minutes ago, John John said: You can ask silly questions but not intelligent questions relating to the topic. No. You ask questions. You seem to have dropped the attitude. Now drop the nonsense. Many good people here, they could teach you a lot. Take my advice. Bye. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 1 minute ago, joigus said: No. You ask questions. You seem to have dropped the attitude. Now drop the nonsense. Many good people here, they could teach you a lot. Take my advice. Bye. But you just stick to one side of mainstream science and have no time for the other side that is explored by science as well. So you are not open for discussion only your side. I you disagree with what I say ask a question or leave it alone for someone else to ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, John John said: But you just stick to one side of mainstream science and have no time for the other side that is explored by science as well. So you are not open for discussion only your side. There's no "sides" to the knowledge we've accumulated via the scientific method, a process designed to weed out the guesswork and wishful thinking and cognitive biases. Either a theory holds up under every applicable test or it doesn't. The ones that hold up are mainstream knowledge. The rest isn't on a different side, it's just wrong, and demonstrably so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 42 minutes ago, joigus said: No. You ask questions. You seem to have dropped the attitude. Now drop the nonsense. Many good people here, they could teach you a lot. Take my advice. Bye. Excellent advice. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 One problem I always see when I see a thread on theory of everything. A theory of everything must have all the applicable mathematics and unify all 4 forces (running of the coupling constants) in order for that to happen all 4 forces must be renormalizable. We can unify EM, strong and weak force we cannot unify nor renormalize gravity. Unless you can do the above it's not a theory of everything. There is no other viable alternative. That is the requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 15 minutes ago, Phi for All said: There's no "sides" to the knowledge we've accumulated via the scientific method, a process designed to weed out the guesswork and wishful thinking and cognitive biases. Either a theory holds up under every applicable test or it doesn't. The ones that hold up are mainstream knowledge. The rest isn't on a different side, it's just wrong, and demonstrably so. That is true for you and anyone else who is convinced, but I am open to many possibilities. There have been scientific beliefs overturned before. The James Web wasn't sent out to prove science correct, it was to see if science was correct and try to learn more about the universe. Why are you so dominant and correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 This is a science forum where we discuss science, and where theories have a specific meaning and purpose. They are models, mostly mathematical, which explain ( in limited applicability ) the workings of the universe, to further our understanding of it. So here is a question for you ... How does any of what you posted explain the workings or further our understanding of the universe ? If it is just nonsense, we really don't want to waste our time with you, and it was my intention to ignore you ( you didn't make a good first impression ), but some other members are more generous than I am, decided to help you sort out your thoughts, and failed as you resisted every attempt. Being a respected member of this forum is more than staying calm when told you are wrong, and saying please and thank you; it is also about the quality of your posts, less nonsense, more verifiable/cited facts/evidence, and more questions about what you don't know without the wild ass guesswork. You are running out of chances to earn that respect, but I suspect you have a couple left; this one didn't work out, try again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 15 minutes ago, Mordred said: One problem I always see when I see a thread on theory of everything. A theory of everything must have all the applicable mathematics and unify all 4 forces (running of the coupling constants) in order for that to happen all 4 forces must be renormalizable. We can unify EM, strong and weak force we cannot unify nor renormalize gravity. Unless you can do the above it's not a theory of everything. There is no other viable alternative. That is the requirement. I think the theory of everything can only be a concept and never realized. Without having full knowledge of the universe we can only guess. 12 minutes ago, MigL said: This is a science forum where we discuss science, and where theories have a specific meaning and purpose. They are models, mostly mathematical, which explain ( in limited applicability ) the workings of the universe, to further our understanding of it. So here is a question for you ... How does any of what you posted explain the workings or further our understanding of the universe ? If it is just nonsense, we really don't want to waste our time with you, and it was my intention to ignore you ( you didn't make a good first impression ), but some other members are more generous than I am, decided to help you sort out your thoughts, and failed as you resisted every attempt. Being a respected member of this forum is more than staying calm when told you are wrong, and saying please and thank you; it is also about the quality of your posts, less nonsense, more verifiable/cited facts/evidence, and more questions about what you don't know without the wild ass guesswork. You are running out of chances to earn that respect, but I suspect you have a couple left; this one didn't work out, try again. Ok, let us try again even if you cant ask a specific question. I stated that the theory of everything is all the matter and energy in the universe, so before I go on to explain further is this the question you would like answered, and if not what would you like to know, please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 18 minutes ago, MigL said: How does any of what you posted explain the workings or further our understanding of the universe ? This not specific enough for you ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John John Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, MigL said: This not specific enough for you ? See, you fail to ask me a single question. Is it what I asked you or something else, please, and thank you. The theory of everything is related to all of the matter and energy in the universe. We have no way of knowing how the universe began and we have no way of knowing where the universe ends. We do know that the universe consists of matter and energy, and we don't know if anything else exists outside of matter and energy. This leaves only one possibility, the reality we live with and in, and that is matter and energy and it is only that we have to work with. The most prominent feature of the universe is energy in all of its forms, energy takes on matter and matter can return to energy under extreme situations. It is said that matter came into existence from energy, and it is predicted it will all return to energy again if the universe collapses. So without knowing the course or the end the theory of everything is a rebirth of all energy, or cold lost matter. We live in this reality and to think we can know more is rather hopeful. We know what we know and we don't know what we don't know. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts