What are resources to prevent school shootings and mass shootings?

[zapatos]

2 minutes ago, Night FM said:

Right. If a person's home constantly gets broken into, it's their responsibility to take action such as installing a security system. Obviously, this doesn't mean it's "right" for a burglar to break into a person's home just because they didn't install a security system (and the law obviously wouldn't agree with that either). But it's more likely to happen to people who don't have one.

You're being obstinate and misusing the term "victim blaming" to avoid acknowledging simple realities.

The simple reality is that teens and pre-teens rarely have the ability to cope with relentless physical and/or emotional bullying. In addition, many of the people most in need of security systems for their homes are lucky if they can afford to eat every day, much less shell out money for a security system. Again, you seem either clueless about life on earth or are willfully ignorant.

[Night FM]

5 minutes ago, zapatos said:

The simple reality is that teens and pre-teens rarely have the ability to cope with relentless physical and/or emotional bullying. In addition, many of the people most in need of security systems for their homes are lucky if they can afford to eat every day, much less shell out money for a security system. Again, you seem either clueless about life on earth or are willfully ignorant.

Right, the security system analogy is only one possible solution. People would need solutions tailored to their individual circumstances. This discussion is about finding ways to help teens cope with bullying who aren't currently able to do so. (And cope doesn't simply mean "get over it", it means being able to take action to prevent it and not use it as an excuse to act out in antisocial ways, such as in the case of school shooters).

Edited September 17 by Night FM

[iNow]

Unless you believe students in other countries around the planet are magically better at coping with social difficulties than students in the US, then you’re doing nothing but trying to displace the conversation and distract from the actual root cause. 

It’s easier for frustrated white boys in America to get a gun than to get laid, and the consequences of this simple fact are obvious to us all… especially the tens of thousands of students being put into lockdown in schools every year and being forced to do active shooter drills every few weeks starting in kindergarten. 

Edited September 17 by iNow

[zapatos]

34 minutes ago, Night FM said:

And cope doesn't simply mean "get over it", it means being able to take action to prevent it and not use it as an excuse to act out in antisocial ways, such as in the case of school shooters).

Have you read one single thing I've said? How does an 11 year old girl with a poor home life 'take action' to prevent physical and emotional abuse in some school that cannot even afford text books for all students? NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU. 

And now you continue to blame the victim for 'acting out' and using the abuse as an "excuse"?!?! People like you make me want to vomit. Please stay out of the way while the rest of us try to address real world problems.

[Night FM]

29 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Have you read one single thing I've said? How does an 11 year old girl with a poor home life 'take action' to prevent physical and emotional abuse in some school that cannot even afford text books for all students? NOT EVERYONE IS LIKE YOU. 

If we're talking about someone as young as 11, they would need to at least communicate the abuse with people who can address it (e.x. parents or authority figures), and most of the resources would be dedicated to the parents and authority figures who are better able to address the situation than the 11 year old girl herself. You're not thinking this through very well.

29 minutes ago, zapatos said:

And now you continue to blame the victim for 'acting out' and using the abuse as an "excuse"?!?! People like you make me want to vomit. Please stay out of the way while the rest of us try to address real world problems.

That's what the law does. A school shooter can't say "I was bullied" as a cop out to being sent to prison. You seem to have contempt for the notion of personal responsibility, and enjoy misusing the term "victim blame". No one is saying that what a bully does is "right" simply because the person doesn't handle it properly.

Edited September 17 by Night FM

[swansont]

19 hours ago, Night FM said:

e.x.

e.x.? What doe the e and x stand for?

Did you mean e.g. (exempli gratia)?

[LuckyR]

On 9/16/2024 at 5:34 PM, iNow said:

Unless you believe students in other countries around the planet are magically better at coping with social difficulties than students in the US, then you’re doing nothing but trying to displace the conversation and distract from the actual root cause. 

It’s easier for frustrated white boys in America to get a gun than to get laid, and the consequences of this simple fact are obvious to us all… especially the tens of thousands of students being put into lockdown in schools every year and being forced to do active shooter drills every few weeks starting in kindergarten. 

Best post in the thread. While there are many factors in why school shootings occur, none of them (except getting rid of all guns) will make much of a difference if implemented and a "gun ban" will never occur in the US. So you have the status quo. 

 

Holding parents responsible will reduce a minority of the events and has broad support. That's the only positive I can detect. 

[npts2020]

Maybe require those desiring guns become part of a "well regulated militia"?

[StringJunky]

On 9/16/2024 at 6:51 AM, CharonY said:

How about not giving anyone easy access to guns as a starting point.

Yeah, post facto solutions are pretty useless, like lacing bullets with penicillin.

[StringJunky]

A sheriff fatally shot a judge yesterday in his district office during an argument. Think about that; top officers of the law. Because of their ubiquity, imo, there isn't enough 'mental distance' from thinking about it to actually shooting someone. There's no respectful fear for arms in the US, like there is elsewhere.

[zapatos]

When I first got my license to carry a concealed weapon, I experimented with carrying a handgun on my body or in my car. I didn't intend to carry it generally but wanted to be comfortable doing so if a reason ever arose. What I found was that if a potentially risky situation arose while carrying, while I was thinking of my potential responses, one of the responses always had to do with getting out my gun. What surprised me (and scared me a bit) was how easy it was to think about pulling a gun to address a problem.

I completely agree with you that there is not enough 'mental distance' between having and using a gun.

[StringJunky]

23 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Best post in the thread. While there are many factors in why school shootings occur, none of them (except getting rid of all guns) will make much of a difference if implemented and a "gun ban" will never occur in the US. So you have the status quo. 

 

Holding parents responsible will reduce a minority of the events and has broad support. That's the only positive I can detect. 

Just filtering for cognitive and emotional competence would be a start without a universal ban.

[CharonY]

2 hours ago, zapatos said:

I completely agree with you that there is not enough 'mental distance' between having and using a gun.

I think it is among Western countries a rather unique situation in the US. Guns elsewhere are something that are only carried for a specific purpose (e.g., hunting, sports). The USA it is the only place (I can think of) where folks think of it as a tool against other humans just in case.

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, CharonY said:

The USA it is the only place (I can think of) where folks think of it as a tool against other humans just in case.

And unfortunately it is baked into the system. If we lived in a place where there were rocks laying all around, if you were attacked by someone you'd probably be thinking about using a rock to defend yourself. Since we allow guns to be everywhere it's only natural that a lot of people will be thinking about guns to defend themselves. It's not Americans per se, it is the American system.

[CharonY]

3 minutes ago, zapatos said:

It's not Americans per se, it is the American system.

Agreed, should have specified that. 

[npts2020]

17 hours ago, zapatos said:

It's not Americans per se, it is the American system.

IMO it IS Americans per se. We worship violence and are easily duped so allow the system being discussed to perpetuate. e.g. Kill enough people on the other side of a war to make them give up and you are a national hero, prevent that war in the first place and few will remember your name. Need I point out more than current American politics to make the case for being easily duped?

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, npts2020 said:

IMO it IS Americans per se. We worship violence and are easily duped so allow the system being discussed to perpetuate. e.g. Kill enough people on the other side of a war to make them give up and you are a national hero, prevent that war in the first place and few will remember your name. Need I point out more than current American politics to make the case for being easily duped?

So you think it is what? Genetics? The water supply?

Take a million babies born to European parents and transport them to the US to be reared there. Do you think they'll all eschew guns when they grow up, or will their view of guns reflect the population as a whole?

[npts2020]

8 hours ago, zapatos said:

So you think it is what? Genetics? The water supply?

Take a million babies born to European parents and transport them to the US to be reared there. Do you think they'll all eschew guns when they grow up, or will their view of guns reflect the population as a whole?

It is definitely the culture IMO. Other than Native Americans, we are used to just taking whatever we want/need (by force if necessary) with little regard for those being taken from. In addition, those who take the most are held in the highest esteem.

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, npts2020 said:

It is definitely the culture IMO

Right. It's the culture. It's not the people. People who are brought up in this culture are affected by it, even if they are not Americans.

[LuckyR]

On 9/20/2024 at 9:50 AM, StringJunky said:

Just filtering for cognitive and emotional competence would be a start without a universal ban.

I get what you're saying but emotional "competence" is a temporary condition, yet firearms last essentially forever. 

[StringJunky]

1 hour ago, LuckyR said:

I get what you're saying but emotional "competence" is a temporary condition, yet firearms last essentially forever. 

Yes, you are right, but I meant as a general long term pattern of behaviour.

[LuckyR]

59 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

Yes, you are right, but I meant as a general long term pattern of behaviour.

Well, it's not the topic of this thread, but in reality the main damage firearms perform is in the suicide stats (not school shootings or murders). 

[CharonY]

5 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Well, it's not the topic of this thread, but in reality the main damage firearms perform is in the suicide stats (not school shootings or murders). 

Just to add some other comparative values, the average of school shooting related deaths in the USA is about similar to the total annual firearm-related deaths (murders and injuries). 

[LuckyR]

On 9/22/2024 at 6:03 PM, CharonY said:

Just to add some other comparative values, the average of school shooting related deaths in the USA is about similar to the total annual firearm-related deaths (murders and injuries). 

Huh? The highest number of school shootings and deaths from same was 2022 with 100 shootings leading to 40 deaths. The "total annual firearm-related deaths" is 43,000. 

[CharonY]

1 hour ago, LuckyR said:

Huh? The highest number of school shootings and deaths from same was 2022 with 100 shootings leading to 40 deaths. The "total annual firearm-related deaths" is 43,000. 

Yeah sorry, I think meant to compare it to total shooting homicides in other countries (exempting suicide). I am not sure which table I was looking at at that time, but I am guessing it might have been Germany or UK.