What are resources to prevent school shootings and mass shootings?

[LuckyR]

On 11/9/2024 at 11:28 AM, CharonY said:

Yeah sorry, I think meant to compare it to total shooting homicides in other countries (exempting suicide). I am not sure which table I was looking at at that time, but I am guessing it might have been Germany or UK.

So your observation is the number of US school shooting deaths is similar to the total firearm deaths in Germany? What does this statistical juxtaposition mean to you?

[exchemist]

On 11/9/2024 at 7:28 PM, CharonY said:

Yeah sorry, I think meant to compare it to total shooting homicides in other countries (exempting suicide). I am not sure which table I was looking at at that time, but I am guessing it might have been Germany or UK.

Here are the relevant stats for England and Wales (most of the UK): https://www.statista.com/statistics/1402232/england-and-wales-firearm-homicides/

The incidence of firearm homicides is pretty stable, at around 30/yr. If you add in a few more for Scotland and N Ireland you might get to 40.  

1 hour ago, LuckyR said:

So your observation is the number of US school shooting deaths is similar to the total firearm deaths in Germany? What does this statistical juxtaposition mean to you?

Presumably that it is the gun culture in the USA that makes these shootings such a regular and apparently accepted  feature of American life. 

[TheVat]

6 hours ago, LuckyR said:

So your observation is the number of US school shooting deaths is similar to the total firearm deaths in Germany? What does this statistical juxtaposition mean to you?

Res ipsa loquitur.

[LuckyR]

On 11/13/2024 at 2:24 AM, exchemist said:

Presumably that it is the gun culture in the USA that makes these shootings such a regular and apparently accepted  feature of American life. 

I agree, though I'm not aware of anyone who disagrees. Anything else, perhaps of interest? 

On 11/13/2024 at 8:00 AM, TheVat said:

Res ipsa loquitur.

So you find a direct result comparison between countries of very different populations, social structures, crime rates and gun ownership stats compelling? Okay. 

[TheVat]

Don't troll me.  

Charon explained his comparison adequately for anyone to understand.

[CharonY]

20 minutes ago, LuckyR said:

So you find a direct result comparison between countries of very different populations, social structures, crime rates and gun ownership stats compelling? Okay. 

Yes, because it highlights that some of these parameters might have explanatory power to those differences. Two contradicting arguments are often made with regards to gun control in the US. 1) gun violence is just a thing that cannot be stopped structurally. It is just bad people making bad decisions; and 2) we cannot compare the US to anywhere else as the US is just so unique.

Unless the argument is that the US is just uniquely bad, it must mean that the US has some structural issues.

[exchemist]

46 minutes ago, LuckyR said:

I agree, though I'm not aware of anyone who disagrees. Anything else, perhaps of interest? 

So you find a direct result comparison between countries of very different populations, social structures, crime rates and gun ownership stats compelling? Okay. 

If you agree with me about gun culture, why are you dragging in these extraneous other issues?

[LuckyR]

On 11/14/2024 at 9:46 AM, exchemist said:

If you agree with me about gun culture, why are you dragging in these extraneous other issues?

Uummm... because I was answering someone else's post covering other issues. 

On 11/14/2024 at 9:22 AM, CharonY said:

Yes, because it highlights that some of these parameters might have explanatory power to those differences. Two contradicting arguments are often made with regards to gun control in the US. 1) gun violence is just a thing that cannot be stopped structurally. It is just bad people making bad decisions; and 2) we cannot compare the US to anywhere else as the US is just so unique.

Unless the argument is that the US is just uniquely bad, it must mean that the US has some structural issues.

Well the US has three times the rape rate as Germany (which commonly doesn't involve gun use) thus seems to be an inherently more violent society on average, separate from gun culture. In addition, since guns, being by definition highly lethal, has the tendancy to turn assaults into murders, the murder rate of the US being only 5 times that of Germany, seems low considering that the US has 3 times the gun ownership per 100 citizens. 

[iNow]

1 hour ago, LuckyR said:

seems to be an inherently more violent society

Or different definitions are being used

[exchemist]

18 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Uummm... because I was answering someone else's post covering other issues. 

Well the US has three times the rape rate as Germany (which commonly doesn't involve gun use) thus seems to be an inherently more violent society on average, separate from gun culture. In addition, since guns, being by definition highly lethal, has the tendancy to turn assaults into murders, the murder rate of the US being only 5 times that of Germany, seems low considering that the US has 3 times the gun ownership per 100 citizens. 

Comparing rape statistics between countries is a poor measure for estimating violence in society, due to the different legal definitions and differences in willingness of victims to report it. There is some discussion of the issues here: 

I quote one paragraph relating to Germany, as you mention it: https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/rape-statistics-by-country

" Sweden's seemingly oversized rape rate is perhaps the best-known example of this scenario. During the years 2013-2017, Sweden averaged 64 reported rapes per 100,000 inhabitants—a rate that tied for the highest in Europe. However, when the data was examined, it became clear that Sweden's high numbers were fueled in large part by Sweden's broader definition of rape and more inclusive reporting rules compared to other European countries. When the data was recalculated using Germany's narrower guidelines, for example, Sweden's average reported rapes per 100,000 people fell from 64 to 15, a decrease of 76.56%."