Exploding Pagers Injure Hundreds in Lebanon

[Trurl]

Well I was referring to after WWII when Germany was East and West. It took 40 years but the wall was torn down.

I agree the  Ukraine situation is urgent because innocent people are dying. But innocent people are always being needlessly killed. You can’t always enter a conflict based on this. It isn’t that another country doesn’t want to help but quick action may make things worse.

We are scientists. What is the game theory behind entering a conflict? I would agree WWII was a must act. But what about Vietnam? We just killed our young men. The French were whipped so it doesn’t make sense to enter this conflict saying it’s to stop the spread of communism.

The U.S. pulls out of Vietnam and we’re friends. Why didn’t we become friends before all the killings?

It is because we didn’t make a deal.

[MigL]

At the time, the spread of Communism, and the influence of the Soviets, was what needed to be kept in check.
So the Americans supported a corrupt SV regime to counter the NV, supported by the Soviets, trying to invade and take over the South.
America was never 'all in', and the war was lost at home, because it was the first televised war; people didn't like seeing their kids body-bags on the 6 pm news.
We are friends with Vietnam because they have transitioned to a semi-capitalist state, and we are favorable for their economy; so who really won ?
( much like Germany, who failed to conquer Europe with two world wars, but succeeded in the 90s with the introduction of the Euro )

42 minutes ago, Trurl said:

It took 40 years but the wall was torn down.

No, it is just temporary.
It is being relocated further East.
(part way through the Ukraine, if D Trump gets elected )

[Trurl]

What is Russia’s goal behind the invasion?

I know it is said Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. But why would he believe such a thing is possible?

I always try and think “what is the true goal.”

This is no easy task. I only know about this war from the media. The democrats say Russia influence the election. It wasn’t that no one liked Hillary. Trump says the election was rigged. It wasn’t that elections are unpredictable.

I mentioned game theory. Do you have any interest there? I don’t know the goals of the World.

That is why you have to go with the goals you think are right. I don’t mean to put yourself above others. People going for their own goals is how we got this problem. And we are not always in a position for our goals to make a difference.

But a problem where a military system is systematically killing civilians should have a clear goal that can easily be identified.

I know finding this goal is not easy to identify. But can you apply game theory to misinformation?

@MigL Ok you don’t give up half of Ukraine how do you end the war?

I emailed a radio show before that UN should put officers in Ukraine. If Russia doesn’t invade the Ukraine doesn’t join NATO. However if Russia invades Ukraine becomes part of NATO.

Brinkmanship. High reward; WWIII if it doesn’t work.

 

[zapatos]

3 minutes ago, Trurl said:

I know it is said Putin wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. But why would he believe such a thing is possible?

 

Because he knows that support for freedom is fickle and people will let him get away with it. All he has to do is have patience. He knows there are people like you around who will give in.

[Trurl]

40 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Because he knows that support for freedom is fickle and people will let him get away with it. All he has to do is have patience. He knows there are people like you around who will give in.

That could be. Biden strategy could be stall the progression while still standing against Putin. But the cost is the lives of the Ukrainian people.

Game theory again. How do make Russia “pay” (deter Russia) without mass casualties?

I’m not saying let Russia off the hook. I am just saying what path do we take. Arming Ukraine slows the decision, but it doesn’t solve the problem. Conflict equals more conflict. The elephant in the room is “how do we end this war.”

[iNow]

8 hours ago, Trurl said:

How do make Russia “pay” (deter Russia) without mass casualties?

This thread is about Israeli operations against Hezbollah and other Iranian proxies. 

[StringJunky]

9 hours ago, Trurl said:

That could be. Biden strategy could be stall the progression while still standing against Putin. But the cost is the lives of the Ukrainian people.

Game theory again. How do make Russia “pay” (deter Russia) without mass casualties?

I’m not saying let Russia off the hook. I am just saying what path do we take. Arming Ukraine slows the decision, but it doesn’t solve the problem. Conflict equals more conflict. The elephant in the room is “how do we end this war.”

Not a good idea to talk about all the world's problems in one thread.

Edited October 7 by StringJunky

[dimreepr]

On 10/6/2024 at 2:54 PM, iNow said:

Isn’t it obvious, though? The best way to stop bullying is to force those being bullied to surrender their rights, their lunch money, and just give in to whatever is being demanded of them. Duh. That’s just logic, yo. 

What hurts my brain is how so many people are so completely aligned with this type of ignorant thinking. 

Indeed +1

But it's not entirely ignorant bc google told me; what hurts my brain is, why people want more than they need...

[Phi for All]

On 10/5/2024 at 4:18 PM, Trurl said:

Why would spelling her name phonetically be racist?

Why would you spell anyone's name phonetically on a discussion forum? Most of us know how it's pronounced, so we don't need you to dumb it down for us (you also didn't spell it phonetically, you went out of your way to put "camel" in there for some reason). And if you hadn't noticed, your crowd (MAGA) loves to mispronounce anything that doesn't sound white or Christian, even though there are no white people in the Bible. It's done in derision, like non-white names are too stupid to bother with pronouncing them correctly.

[iNow]

Trerl probably just doesn’t read much. 

Terel might’ve just made an honest mistake.

Trool surely wasn’t trolling.

He certainly wasn’t consciously being disrespectful or childishly dismissive, isn’t that right, Tool?

That would be below, Trurl and I trust they recognize a phonetic spelling would be Comma,La. 

Edited October 7 by iNow

[Trurl]

5 hours ago, iNow said:

 

Trerl probably just doesn’t read much. 

Terel might’ve just made an honest mistake.

Trool surely wasn’t trolling.

He certainly wasn’t consciously being disrespectful or childishly dismissive, isn’t that right, Tool?

That would be below, Trurl and I trust they recognize a phonetic spelling would be Comma,La. 

 

Again you avoid the debate of the pagers and applying game theory to world conflicts.

But nowhere have I attacked Kamala Harris. I typed her name because I am on a phone and couldn’t look it up.

My name is frequently pronounced wrong.

I feel that in my discussions had quality points to explore further.

I don’t care if you disagree. If your opinions were identical to mine we wouldn’t need to discuss anything.

You assume I’m maga. I haven’t voted for Trump in the past 2 elections. I just think compared to Harris, Trump is anti war. Vets and military love him.

What I think about the pagers is it came out of a spy movie. I think it is selective in getting terrorist leaders with bombing hospitals. However it could be considered an act of war by those that blew up.

I talked about Ukraine not because I am for letting Russia off. But if I was an ambassador I’d be in peace talks.

Also I discussed media misinformation because the way those not involved in the war rely on getting information. If other countries want to influence the election how are they doing that? There are so many opinions how is a facebook ad going to make me vote for the candidate they want to win?

These are my topics for discussion. And you should Google Camela.

[iNow]

12 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Again you avoid the debate of the pagers and applying game theory to world conflicts.

What’s there to debate? It happened and another country did it. The world is complicated and power is shifting. Simple solutions rarely suffice.

Too often those offering those faux solutions are snake oil salesmen preying on people who deserve better.
 

14 minutes ago, Trurl said:

if I was an ambassador I’d be in peace talks.

And I’d wish you great success in your efforts and be the first to applaud you if you managed to pull it off. Literally thousands of people are trying to do exactly that every hour of every day while we comfortably act like Monday morning quarterbacks here. 
 

16 minutes ago, Trurl said:

how is a facebook ad going to make me vote for the candidate they want to win?

By tuning your brain like a radio with drip drops of misinformation every few minutes of every single day; leveraging your evolved ape shortcuts and heuristic weaknesses by cultivating themes from trusted sources and preventing counter narratives from entering the bubble.

By continuing these efforts across platforms and revisiting them until you’re no longer able to capably separate fact from fiction nor even accept as a foundational premise that objective facts both exist and must inform our critical thinking. 

But now we’re even more off topic. The pagers were just a first strike to knock the enemy off balance before the broader incursion. Netanyahu is the one who must make peace and every incentive he has is telling him he must not.

1700 Israelis were brutalized a year ago. Since then, 41,000 Palestinians have been killed in response, more than half of them innocent women and children.

Trump is a cartoonish buffoon who puts idiot ass kissers in position of power and makes campaign contributors ambassadors. Perhaps if you’re serious about becoming an ambassador yourself you should buy some of his gold sneakers and some of his cryptocurrency before he bankrupts that, too. 

[Trurl]

On 10/8/2024 at 12:29 AM, iNow said:

By tuning your brain like a radio with drip drops of misinformation every few minutes of every single day; leveraging your evolved ape shortcuts and heuristic weaknesses by cultivating themes from trusted sources and preventing counter narratives from entering the bubble.

And you feel you are immune to it? You dislike Trump because of his tweets and how they portray him on tv. I’m not trying to sway voters. Trump comes with a bunch of problems. But I my opinion just watching Biden news conferences the mission behind all the wars wasn’t clear. Almost like he had no options or no decision.

I don’t know how we got these candidates. There are major problems no matter who wins. My issues are world stability and economy.

Maybe the misinformation generaters have already won. They have use believing that our candidate is better and the other will destroy the world.

I don’t know if there is a misinformation thread in the psychology thread but it would be interesting to explore further.

[iNow]

Just now, Trurl said:

And you feel you are immune to it?

Immune? Nope. Aware and actively taking steps to mitigate it? Yes. 

1 minute ago, Trurl said:

You dislike Trump because of his tweets

False. 

2 minutes ago, Trurl said:

just watching Biden news conferences the mission behind all the wars wasn’t clear.

Probably bc the US isn’t technically engaged in any wars right now (outside of some active operations against terrorists in Africa and a few similar places. 

3 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Maybe the misinformation generaters have already won.

Only if we abandon our critical thinking and desire to stop them. 

[Trurl]

7 minutes ago, iNow said:

8 minutes ago, Trurl said:

 

Immune? Nope. Aware and actively taking steps to mitigate it? Yes. 

I think it is an impossible task. You have to go with what you believe in. There is no way to separate misinformation from fact unless it is blatant. We have to compare the misinformation to what we already know. Even if you used the scientific method you could still get it wrong.

Look at Covid. They say there is no vaccine. Do your job. There is a voluntary vaccination. Even if you worked without a vaccine you will lose your job if you don’t get vaccinated.

That example is why misinformation starts. The vaccine will kill you. Covid is fake. It seems you could just use science but both sides have their own science.

This is for psychologists. I’d rather crunch numbers. I see no solution to this problem.

[iNow]

9 minutes ago, Trurl said:

There is no way to separate misinformation from fact unless it is blatant.

We’ll have to move forward in disagreement. 

10 minutes ago, Trurl said:

Look at Covid. They say there is no vaccine.

I just got one. Had one last year and the year before that, too.

Is this another one of those times where you believe misinformation cannot be corrected with facts?

[zapatos]

10 minutes ago, Trurl said:

There is no way to separate misinformation from fact unless it is blatant.

Oh come on. Do a little work.

[TheVat]

16 hours ago, Trurl said:

It seems you could just use science but both sides have their own science.

Not really.  The "both sides" gambit is intellectually dishonest.  One side respects the findings of peer-reviewed science, the other respects kooks with zero scientific credentials and their own YT channel.  The contrast couldn't be more stark.