Exploding Pagers Injure Hundreds in Lebanon

[zapatos]

20 minutes ago, MigL said:

( I wonder how much 5000  )rockets with at least a couple of pound warhead weigh combined )

This sounds like you are arguing that belligerents are justified taking any action as long as their foe did so first.

[MigL]

Does it ?
Or does it sound like all the posts I see are condemning Israel's actions, yet no one mentions the acts committed against them.
All the while assuring me that they ARE condemning Hamas' massacre of Israeli innocents, or saying they hold Israel to a 'higher standard'.

[zapatos]

13 minutes ago, MigL said:

Does it ?

Yes.

When you mentioned the 2000 pound bombs dropped by Israel and then suggested that it was comparable to thousands of small bombs launched by Hamas. Did you mean something else?

[dimreepr]

8 hours ago, MigL said:

Does it ?
Or does it sound like all the posts I see are condemning Israel's actions, yet no one mentions the acts committed against them.
All the while assuring me that they ARE condemning Hamas' massacre of Israeli innocents, or saying they hold Israel to a 'higher standard'.

No, it sound's like you're refusing to acknowledge that bullies are created not born, they all live in basically the same place where the boarders is an arbitrary measure; they don't even have the excuse that they're living on an island and have evolved slightly differently.

Everyone has condemned Hitler for the bully he was, isn't it time Israel stopped citing him as the reason to be the bigger innocent???

[John Cuthber]

13 hours ago, MigL said:

John asked for stats and I provided such.
If he had asked for sarcasm, I would have provided what you did.

It's not obvious to me that I did, and I'm the only one here whose user name is John.
I might choose to provide stats like these.
https://countingthekids.org
But it's off topic.
(It's a little out of date)

And I thought I'd been sarcastic enough when I said this
 

15 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

Possibly because this thread is called "Exploding Pagers Injure Hundreds in Lebanon".

Edited September 26 by John Cuthber

[MigL]

10 hours ago, John Cuthber said:

It's not obvious to me that I did

Are you being 'sarcastic' again ?
Did you want stats about other groups, like children, or housewives, or grandmothers, etc.
Or did you want examples specifically of hostages from last October's massacre being killed as negotiations were ongoing ?
Because this is what you said ...

On 9/25/2024 at 7:05 PM, John Cuthber said:

Feel free to stat a "even during negotiations for a cease fire, Hamas is still killing kidnapped hostages from last October" thread.

 

22 hours ago, zapatos said:

When you mentioned the 2000 pound bombs dropped by Israel and then suggested that it was comparable to thousands of small bombs launched by Hamas. Did you mean something else?

Well, I do wonder how many people would have been killed by the indiscriminate firing of 5000 rockets ( on very many occasions ) into civilian population centers, if Israel had not been forced, by the unrelenting attacks from neighboring states and groups, over the last75 years,, to develop one of the best air defense systems in the world, which can intercept such rockets in great numbers.
Is the fact that Israel chooses to protect its people now to be used against them also ?

[StringJunky]

7 hours ago, MigL said:

Well, I do wonder how many people would have been killed by the indiscriminate firing of 5000 rockets ( on very many occasions ) into civilian population centers, if Israel had not been forced, by the unrelenting attacks from neighboring states and groups, over the last75 years,, to develop one of the best air defense systems in the world, which can intercept such rockets in great numbers.
Is the fact that Israel chooses to protect its people now to be used against them also ?

Way to make Israel the victim. My cognitive dissonance meter needle has just broken.

[dimreepr]

11 hours ago, MigL said:

Is the fact that Israel chooses to protect its people now to be used against them also ?

That depends on how they chose to do that, the world is watching...

3 hours ago, StringJunky said:

My cognitive dissonance meter needle has just broken.

Ouch, but aren't we equally capable?

Edited September 27 by dimreepr

[MigL]

9 hours ago, StringJunky said:

Way to make Israel the victim. My cognitive dissonance meter needle has just broken.

I think your meter needle was already broken since last year, as it doesn't seem to have registered any reading last October 7th either.

[StringJunky]

41 minutes ago, MigL said:

I think your meter needle was already broken since last year, as it doesn't seem to have registered any reading last October 7th either.

That's because I've been following the middle east situation for years and not just from Oct' 7th. It's a symptom, not a cause. Israel wants the world to see that day in a vacuum, but those of us that have followed this issue know otherwise.

[John Cuthber]

On 9/27/2024 at 2:44 AM, MigL said:

re you being 'sarcastic' again ?
Did you want stats about other groups, like children, or housewives, or grandmothers, etc.
Or did you want examples specifically of hostages from last October's massacre being killed as negotiations were ongoing ?
Because this is what you said ...

On 9/26/2024 at 12:05 AM, John Cuthber said:

Feel free to stat a "even during negotiations for a cease fire, Hamas is still killing kidnapped hostages from last October" thread.

Typo.
"start" a thread.

Not sure that "stat" is a verb.

[geordief]

55 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Typo.
"start" a thread.

Not sure that "stat" is a verb.

Seems to be used but by geeky computer types.  Can't find it in the online dictionary .

But that was how I interpreted your typo (it felt jarring ,though)

Seems like the "game" has moved along  with commentators saying Netanyahu is exploiting the American election space and may have his eye on Iran (and his personal survival) 

[MigL]

Thanks for clarifying John.

The answer to solve all immediate problems seems simple.
If we can agree that Israel has the right to take out the leaders of groups who wish to do Israel harm, then they have the right to take out Netanyahu.

And stop firing rockets indiscriminately into population centers, if Israel stops dropping bombs.

But, just as Ukraine refuses to negotiate a cease fire unless all Russian occupiers leave Ukrainian land, Israel does not negotiate if Hamas is still holding ( and killing ) hostages.

Edited September 29 by MigL

[zapatos]

I'm a bit confused by Iran's attack on Israel.

Israel is attacking Hezbollah so Iran responds by attacking Israel. Hezbollah is a proxy for Iran, and the primary reason belligerents use proxies is so that they can avoid direct confrontation which could turn costly. That is how the US and Russia fought all during the Cold War without ever firing a shot at each other.

But by attacking Israel directly, Iran invites direct retaliation by Israel and the risk of a wider war. Why is Iran suddenly moving away from the idea of a proxy war and toward direct confrontation?

[iNow]

41 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I'm a bit confused by Iran's attack on Israel.

A large part of it is more emotional than strategic IMO, plus bowing to internal pressures not to look weak.

Israel has been humiliating them and also Iran hadn’t yet responded to the killing of Hamas leader Haniyeh inside the country a few weeks ago. Then they killed Nasrallah in Beruit a few days ago.

If I had to guess, timing was due to the ground incursion into Lebanon making Iran look even smaller and weaker, plus Bibi yesterday in X saying that “regime change in Tehran is imminent” implying he plans to send troops into Iran next. 

That’s the sort of thing that gets under peoples skin especially when they’re already pissed off, and internal political pressures to hit back hard are surely at a boiling point. 

[LaurieAG]

On 9/30/2024 at 1:41 AM, MigL said:

The answer to solve all immediate problems seems simple.
If we can agree that Israel has the right to take out the leaders of groups who wish to do Israel harm, then they have the right to take out Netanyahu.

Don't worry about it MigL, as soon as they conscript the ultra orthodox into the IDF and force them to kill Palestinian children they will take out the bastard themselves. Hezbollah may put the children of the Palestinians onto the altar of Baal but the IDF completes the sacrifice.

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

A large part of it is more emotional than strategic IMO, plus bowing to internal pressures not to look weak.

Israel has been humiliating them and also Iran hadn’t yet responded to the killing of Hamas leader Haniyeh inside the country a few weeks ago. Then they killed Nasrallah in Beruit a few days ago.

If I had to guess, timing was due to the ground incursion into Lebanon making Iran look even smaller and weaker, plus Bibi yesterday in X saying that “regime change in Tehran is imminent” implying he plans to send troops into Iran next. 

That’s the sort of thing that gets under peoples skin especially when they’re already pissed off, and internal political pressures to hit back hard are surely at a boiling point. 

The surrounding Arab countries have been sitting on their hands, so far, and someone needed to shift up a gear to help the Hezbollah and the Palestinians. 

[dimreepr]

5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

The surrounding Arab countries have been sitting on their hands, so far, and someone needed to shift up a gear to help the Hezbollah and the Palestinians. 

They're not helping, they're prolonging the agony by giving Israel a 'world' license to carry on regardless.

WWIII isn't beyond reason...

[StringJunky]

31 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

They're not helping, they're prolonging the agony by giving Israel a 'world' license to carry on regardless.

WWIII isn't beyond reason...

I don't think it will be just geopolitical, I think there will be internal strife within the NATO countries themselves as well. I see a conflict of ideologies coming to blows that transcends pure nationalism and geographical borders.

Edited October 2 by StringJunky

[MigL]

If I were a cynical person, I would say the Israeli arracks on Hezbollah and Southern Lebanon targeting leadership, was an attempt to draw in the puppet-master Iran.
An the hatred of Israelis by most in the Middle East, but especially Iran, seems to have facilitated it.

Now Netanyahu has the world's permission to go after the leadership of Iran, as Iran has just declared war on Israel..
My prediction is Mossad is already gathering location information, and one of these nights, a squad of F-35s will penetrate Iranian air defenses, and attempt to take out Iranian leadership.

That is what Netanyahu meant by 'regime change is coming to Iran'; chop off the head of Medusa and you don't need to worry about the individual snakes anymore. If he succeeds, Netanyahu will come off looking like the savior of Israel, and the idiot will be a political fixture in Israeli politics for many years to come.

Iranian leaders let their hatred get the best of them, and they will make this all possible

[zapatos]

21 hours ago, iNow said:

A large part of it is more emotional than strategic IMO, plus bowing to internal pressures not to look weak.

 

If so, which seems a reasonable analysis, I can't help but think they have really opened themselves up to a small disaster. I imagine Israel has pulled out the file called "Operation Blow Up Iranian Nuclear Facilities" and is wondering if now is the time to execute as they've got pretty good cover for a direct attack back on Iran.

Secretly going after centrifuges worked well when the world would scream if you instead dropped bombs on them. Now that Iran has sent hundreds of missiles at Israel though, she can respond in kind. While the world won't like it, they'll likely accept sending missiles at Iran's nuclear facilities as a reasonable, if harsh, response.

[iNow]

37 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I can't help but think they have really opened themselves up to a small disaster

I suspect part of it too is the Ayatollah is really old and no longer totally in charge. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if his mind is ailing/failing, lieutenants below him are making these kinetic decisions, and there are quite likely some rather bitter power struggles happening in real-time in Tehran regarding who will takeover as his successor. 

[LaurieAG]

2 hours ago, iNow said:

I suspect part of it too is the Ayatollah is really old and no longer totally in charge. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if his mind is ailing/failing, lieutenants below him are making these kinetic decisions, and there are quite likely some rather bitter power struggles happening in real-time in Tehran regarding who will takeover as his successor. 

Maybe the USA can force another absolute monarch on them.

[zapatos]

4 minutes ago, LaurieAG said:

Maybe the USA can force another absolute monarch on them.

Maybe you can open your own thread dedicated to all the ways the world has wronged you over the years.

[dimreepr]

On 10/2/2024 at 1:04 PM, StringJunky said:

I don't think it will be just geopolitical,

It always starts somewhere, then the ripples grow...