Ethics of veganism

[Night FM]

What are your thoughts on it? I believe that, theoretically, veganism is more ethical than eating meat, but realistically, I don't expect everyone to become a vegan, given that farming and hunting animals for meat has been a practice in all cultures that I'm aware of, even ones which lived closer to nature.

While the book of Genesis in the Bible says that Adam and Eve were vegans prior to the Fall of Man, I'm not sure where this actually fits into cultural history.

[joigus]

Why is the Bible relevant in General Philosophy? I'm sure the Bhagavad Gita has a different take on it.

Philosophy is supposed to be objective.

[swansont]

2 hours ago, Night FM said:

While the book of Genesis in the Bible says that Adam and Eve were vegans prior to the Fall of Man

Does it say this?Or is it just an inference that requires you to believe also that carnivores were vegans, too?

2 hours ago, joigus said:

Why is the Bible relevant in General Philosophy? I'm sure the Bhagavad Gita has a different take on it.

Philosophy is supposed to be objective.

Moved to ethics, because of the title.

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, Night FM said:

While the book of Genesis in the Bible says that Adam and Eve were vegans prior to the Fall of Man, I'm not sure where this actually fits into cultural history.

This always seemed like an extremist stance. The quotes from the Bible say that green plants are given for food, but it never says "Don't eat the animals!" the way it says "Don't eat apples from that tree over there!" Just like abortion and divorce, isn't it possible their god disapproves of something but allows it in some circumstances?

And the idea that all those obligate carnivores were munching nuts and dandelions is just crazy, as is the idea that their god changed up the physiology of everything after A&E got too curious. 

I don't think there's anything unethical about eating meat, not back then, not today. Animal husbandry and agriculture upgraded us from hunters and gatherers. What we should focus on is being able to raise our food animals without destroying the habitats of all the non-food animals we live alongside of. Diversity in all things. No more monocropping, no more factory farming. There are better ways.

[TheVat]

There are multiple ethical issues that swirl around veganism v carnivory.

The ethics of how we treat animals - which gets into how animals suffer, factory farming conditions, and whether animals are lesser beings which we may legitimately use for our sustenance.

The ethics of the resource-intensive high carbon footprint production of meat.  An issue of eco stewardship and sustainability for eight billion plus people.

The ethics of public health policies and recommendations against meat consumption - i.e. impact on human health and any obligation to make the costs of meat consumption known to the general public.

For me, there are some things that change when you go from a hunter gatherer population of 10-200 million people to modern societies supporting eight billion.  I am vegan, five days per week, with sustainable catch fish and free-range eggs two days per week.  Pure veganism results in fatigue and minor health issues for me, an experience that seems to be pretty common.  Generally, I am happy to (as GB Shaw put it) mostly leave the animals alone.  Factory farming (which I've experienced up close) is a nightmare.

[iNow]

I think it's unethical to use legislation to ban lab grown meat because rich people in the cattle and ag-community pay off and heavily pressure their congress people to do so (not due to any genuine health risks). Same for the treatment of nut milks bc the dairy industry doesn't like it. 

[LuckyR]

In my experience most thoughtful individuals find factory farming unethical, though it obviously passes the ethical standard for society at large. But there are small ranching operations that don't use agribusiness techniques such that the only alternative to factory farming is vegetarianism.

[swansont]

7 hours ago, LuckyR said:

In my experience most thoughtful individuals find factory farming unethical, though it obviously passes the ethical standard for society at large. But there are small ranching operations that don't use agribusiness techniques such that the only alternative to factory farming is vegetarianism.

I think the ethics only enter into it if you’re wealthy enough to have options, and having a significant fraction of people above the threshold is a relatively recent occurrence. 

[LuckyR]

15 hours ago, swansont said:

I think the ethics only enter into it if you’re wealthy enough to have options, and having a significant fraction of people above the threshold is a relatively recent occurrence. 

Well, by that measure factory farming itself is also of "relatively recent occurence".