Imagine Everything Posted October 27 Author Posted October 27 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Mordred said: We didn't cover quantum tunneling I was about to make a correction spell check interference when I saw the cross post notification it should have read didn't cover. The earlier DE models uses quantum tunneling just an FYI so did Allen Guth's False vacuum inflation which is the first inflationary models. Ok so no worries, it wouldn't surprise me if I had missed something. Also, cool , I just learnt a little bit more about how this might work (or not lol) Thanks again Edited October 27 by Imagine Everything
Imagine Everything Posted October 29 Author Posted October 29 (edited) The more I reread this thread, the more I seem to have forgotten about.... I'm still learning, version 3 is by no means the last version, just what I think I have learnt, though by rereading this thread, it looks like I have forgotten some things & sometimes my brain is just pure lazy .... Also it is really difficult trying to gather all the information (so far) together in one place so I can see it and work it together if that makes sense. Hmmm. Question, Is angstrom the smallest anything can be? Is is just a measurement of distance i.e. Meter or can it be used for energy? Edited October 29 by Imagine Everything
Imagine Everything Posted October 29 Author Posted October 29 https://www.khanacademy.org/science/cosmology-and-astronomy/universe-scale-topic/scale-earth-galaxy-tutorial/v/hubble-image-of-galaxies No words to explain.... Thanks Mordred, I think it was you that gave me a link to this?
studiot Posted October 29 Posted October 29 4 hours ago, Imagine Everything said: Question, Is angstrom the smallest anything can be? Is is just a measurement of distance i.e. Meter or can it be used for energy? The Angstrom is an old unit about the size on a whole atom. Or if you lined up 100,000 atomic nuclei in a row that would be the size of one angstom. That is how much smaller a nucleus is than an atom. And protons and neutrons are smaller still, may be half this size. 1
Mordred Posted October 30 Posted October 30 5 hours ago, Imagine Everything said: https://www.khanacademy.org/science/cosmology-and-astronomy/universe-scale-topic/scale-earth-galaxy-tutorial/v/hubble-image-of-galaxies No words to explain.... Thanks Mordred, I think it was you that gave me a link to this? your welcome and yes it was me as its a good collection of lectures
Imagine Everything Posted October 30 Author Posted October 30 5 hours ago, Mordred said: your welcome and yes it was me as its a good collection of lectures Mmmm very interesting seeing the scale of things, could one be forgiven for thinking everything resides inside a universe sized brain? 8 hours ago, studiot said: The Angstrom is an old unit about the size on a whole atom. Or if you lined up 100,000 atomic nuclei in a row that would be the size of one angstom. That is how much smaller a nucleus is than an atom. And protons and neutrons are smaller still, may be half this size. Thanks Studiot
Mordred Posted October 30 Posted October 30 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Imagine Everything said: Mmmm very interesting seeing the scale of things, could one be forgiven for thinking everything resides inside a universe sized brain Hmm no actually there is one such theory already but no evidence support some physicists do work on it. So the idea is already being examined though not quite in the way you imagine. (Yes alot of this discussion is applicable to this theory) Boltzmann brains. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.01909 Edited October 30 by Mordred
Imagine Everything Posted October 31 Author Posted October 31 (edited) On 10/30/2024 at 7:39 AM, Mordred said: Hmm no actually there is one such theory already but no evidence support some physicists do work on it. So the idea is already being examined though not quite in the way you imagine. (Yes alot of this discussion is applicable to this theory) Boltzmann brains. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.01909 That is super cool, I'll look in a minute. I was just mildly throwing that out there, didn't expect something serious to come back lol. Few questions please. What created the hydrogen to begin with before any stars or anything had been created? Is DM the 'leftover' part of hydrogen, if it had any left over part/s, once the hydrogen has been fused? Hopefully I said that right. Is there still hydrogen around our sun? And hmmm maybe a bit sci fi ish but out of curiosity do you think it would be possible to piggyback the energy of a supernova (at a safe and certain point within the shockwave) to travel faster than we're currently able to, and then be able to perhaps reach certain places in our galaxy quicker. I'm not thinking lightspeed but maybe faster than voyager currently is. On 10/30/2024 at 7:39 AM, Mordred said: Hmm no actually there is one such theory already but no evidence support some physicists do work on it. So the idea is already being examined though not quite in the way you imagine. (Yes alot of this discussion is applicable to this theory) Boltzmann brains. http://arxiv.org/pdf/1812.01909 Ok read that, obviously didn't understand much but am I right to think that it suggests DM/ the universe freezes at some point and therefore no motion or creation can happen? If I can be bold, can I liken it to a cryo freezed human head? Edited October 31 by Imagine Everything
Mordred Posted October 31 Posted October 31 (edited) Hydrogen is one elements that doesn't require fusion to produce others being Deuterium and lithium. The constituents protons neutrons and electrons at high temperaturesdrp out of thermal equilibrium at different temperatures. Electrons themselves drop out of equilibrium during electroweak symmetry breaking neutrons and protons drop out at much lower temperature for 75 % dropout roughly 5000 Kelvin where hydrogen at 75 percent dropout being 3000 Kelvin ie roughly the surface of last scatterring. However for truly early star formation prior this involves supercooling the during slow roll a reheating. This plus higher densities granted the means for truly early star formation. No DM is not needed in regards to hydrogen formation however it is needed for early large scale structure formation (stars, galaxies, galaxy clusters etc Boltzmann brain is a highly speculative conjecture that is supported by mathematics I don't particularly follow it but do know of some physicists that have studied it such as Sean Carrol. It's not needful to understand physics. In regards to particles knowing. This descriptive doesn't make sense. Recall those conservation laws I previously mentioned ? They show what conditions are required in order for particles to form via interactions. In essence if a particle can be formed it will be formed when the requirements are met without violating those conservation laws. This is also involved in determining mean lifetime of particles. For example electrons are stable as there is no particle an electron can decay into. Edited October 31 by Mordred
Imagine Everything Posted November 2 Author Posted November 2 (edited) On 10/31/2024 at 10:43 PM, Mordred said: Hydrogen is one elements that doesn't require fusion to produce others being Deuterium and lithium. The constituents protons neutrons and electrons at high temperaturesdrp out of thermal equilibrium at different temperatures. Electrons themselves drop out of equilibrium during electroweak symmetry breaking neutrons and protons drop out at much lower temperature for 75 % dropout roughly 5000 Kelvin where hydrogen at 75 percent dropout being 3000 Kelvin ie roughly the surface of last scatterring. However for truly early star formation prior this involves supercooling the during slow roll a reheating. This plus higher densities granted the means for truly early star formation. No DM is not needed in regards to hydrogen formation however it is needed for early large scale structure formation (stars, galaxies, galaxy clusters etc Boltzmann brain is a highly speculative conjecture that is supported by mathematics I don't particularly follow it but do know of some physicists that have studied it such as Sean Carrol. It's not needful to understand physics. In regards to particles knowing. This descriptive doesn't make sense. Recall those conservation laws I previously mentioned ? They show what conditions are required in order for particles to form via interactions. In essence if a particle can be formed it will be formed when the requirements are met without violating those conservation laws. This is also involved in determining mean lifetime of particles. For example electrons are stable as there is no particle an electron can decay into. I'll be honest, I don't remember the conservation laws right now, but I'm always re reading this thread and will no doubt see it again. So if Hydrogen doesn't need to be fused, how is it formed? Was it simply just 'there' at the big bang? Did the dense heat create it? Was it like power created H and H harnessed the power? As for Boltzmann brain, I was just throwing out a weird thought, I don't think I need an answer tbh. It doesn't really fit into my idea, was just hmm...weirdly curious. But thanks So hmm again, if H is in the outer part of our sun and condenses to become He and then that condenses to become a He core, (leaving it there and only relating to our sun) doesn't that mean that H is being created or exists around the He fusion? And if it does then does mean at some point in the future, our solar system will gain new planets or similart structures? oes ou Solar system currently live inside an H cloud? Also, I was seeing things about He flashes in that Kahn Academy series of lectures does that mean (relating to our sun) that there are also H flashes? and various other flashes? Are these flashes aka supernova? And thanks for the links to thes videos, seeing it all as images helps immensely. Why is Iron called Fe and not Ir if Hydrogen is H and Helium is He? I dare I'm showing you my lack of science knowledge by asking that. I read & saw that there is ao a theorised?/measured? quark star. Which is fascinating. Is there a quark field? And hmmmm hmmmm...Degeneracy..hmmmm....So if there is Electron degeneracy and Neutron degeneracy, is there also Quark degeneracy and, maybe this will sound very weird or stupid, is or could there also be VP degeneracy?. And is that why people get divorced? Lmao, threw that in as a funny. Feel free to smile. ^^ Edited November 2 by Imagine Everything Fk my keyboard
Mordred Posted November 2 Posted November 2 (edited) Degeneracy applies to all fermionic systems via the Pauli-exclusion principle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_degeneracy_pressure Above is a simpler case but yes allies as well to quarks. To answer in the case of hydrogen your better off starting with deuterium which is a simpler case We have to be careful here as hydrogen has different isotopes and I should have specified deuterium above https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium It would be easier to understand how deuterium forms by examining valence from chemistry as a starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_(chemistry)#:~:text=Hydrogen has only one valence,has an incomplete outer shell. Edited November 2 by Mordred
Imagine Everything Posted November 2 Author Posted November 2 Just now, Mordred said: Degeneracy applies to all fermionic systems via the Pauli-exclusion principle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_degeneracy_pressure Above is a simpler case but yes allies as well to quarks. But not VP's? I know they are theoreticly proposed as what happens when electrons bump into each other but would that not mean that (if they exist) they too could exist in a degeneracy state? Or have I gone beyone the smallest anything can possibly be within the realms of fields/ fluctuations and Excitements? Huh, I think I've acutally learnt something....... ty Btw...I have no idea if my idea is a something, could be a something and bla bla bla, but if it eventually turns out to be a something scientifically, you guys do realise & should also be creditted with, it wouldn't have become whatever it might do without your input, help and patience. More than likely I guess, it's nothing but what if...hmmm Ryan Reynolds presents the Deadpool Nobel prize to Mordred, Studiot and some bloke who had an idea... I know, I know, I also pipe dream a lot. 11 minutes ago, Mordred said: Degeneracy applies to all fermionic systems via the Pauli-exclusion principle. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_degeneracy_pressure Above is a simpler case but yes allies as well to quarks. To answer in the case of hydrogen your better off starting with deuterium which is a simpler case We have to be careful here as hydrogen has different isotopes and I should have specified deuterium above https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deuterium It would be easier to understand how deuterium forms by examining valence from chemistry as a starting point. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valence_(chemistry)#:~:text=Hydrogen has only one valence,has an incomplete outer shell. I'll have a look tomorrow boss, I'm fighting a bug atm just want to sleep or kill the person that spread their virus atoms Grrr Cya tomorrow as it were, thx
Mordred Posted November 2 Posted November 2 (edited) Mediator particles are bosons so have no degeneracy pressure and yes you already learning. The reason I recommend learning valence first is to understand the significance of the outer shell before getting into ionization of hydrogen. Simplest isotope proton has positive charge which attracts negative charge the electron no neutron. H^1 Deuterium case has a neutron.H^2 Tritium case H^3 has 2 neutrons Latter 2 cases are produced through ionization and not fusion. Edited November 2 by Mordred
studiot Posted November 2 Posted November 2 2 hours ago, Imagine Everything said: Why is Iron called Fe and not Ir if Hydrogen is H and Helium is He? Many elements have been known for a long time and had ancient world names (usuallly Latin or Greek). Iron was Ferrum in Latin symbol Fe Tin was Stannum in Latin symbol Sn Gold was Aurum in Latin symbol Au Silver was Argentum in Latin symbol Ag the French also get Argent (money) from this Copper was Kypros after the Greek name for Cyprus symbol Cu after tha Latinisation Cuprum. Particularly interesting because this was the oldest known mining for copper and why the bronze age started around the eastern Mediterranean. Rome was of course iron age.
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 15 hours ago, studiot said: Many elements have been known for a long time and had ancient world names (usuallly Latin or Greek). Iron was Ferrum in Latin symbol Fe Tin was Stannum in Latin symbol Sn Gold was Aurum in Latin symbol Au Silver was Argentum in Latin symbol Ag the French also get Argent (money) from this Copper was Kypros after the Greek name for Cyprus symbol Cu after tha Latinisation Cuprum. Particularly interesting because this was the oldest known mining for copper and why the bronze age started around the eastern Mediterranean. Rome was of course iron age. Oh ok, thanks Studiot. 17 hours ago, Mordred said: Mediator particles are bosons so have no degeneracy pressure and yes you already learning. The reason I recommend learning valence first is to understand the significance of the outer shell before getting into ionization of hydrogen. Simplest isotope proton has positive charge which attracts negative charge the electron no neutron. H^1 Deuterium case has a neutron.H^2 Tritium case H^3 has 2 neutrons Latter 2 cases are produced through ionization and not fusion. In respect to valance, I read (if memory serves correctly) that different atoms have different valance electron amounts that are attracted to similar valance electron amounts and is why they bond together. I hope I said that right. Could one of you point me in the direction of a more detailed and easy to understand valance website please? Also ionisation. Thanks as always
studiot Posted November 3 Posted November 3 3 hours ago, Imagine Everything said: In respect to valance, I read (if memory serves correctly) that different atoms have different valance electron amounts that are attracted to similar valance electron amounts and is why they bond together. I hope I said that right. Could one of you point me in the direction of a more detailed and easy to understand valance website please? Also ionisation. Thanks as always This is Chemistry, not Physics. Before doing valency, you need to do substances, elements, atoms, molecules and chemical bonds. So first we consider pure substances (impure substances are called mixtures) A pure substance has every part with its constituents in the same proportions or percentages. This is known as the Law of Constant Proportions. So every particle of common salt is 38.8% sodium and 61.2% chlorine. The smallest particle of a substance is called a molecule. Molecules are made of only a small number of basic substances called elements. The smallest particle of an element is called an atom. The molecules of some elements appear as single atoms others appear as two or more atoms joined together. When atoms join together the resulting molecules are held together by chemical bonds. There are three basic types of chemical bond Ionic Covalent Metallic All types of bond are the result of activities by the electrons in the atoms. For our purposes we may consider that these electrons are held in 'shells', one shell inside the other and each shell can accomodate a specific number of electrons. The number of electrons in an electrically neutral atom is fixed and equal to the atomic number of that element. As the atomic number increases the elements fill up the shells, starting with the innermost and proceeding to the next shell only when the innermost is full up. The first or innermost shell holds only 2 electrons. The next innermost shell can hold 6 electrons. So electrons for any element with 3 or more electrons will have 1,2,3,4,5 or 6 electrons in the second or outer shell Shell 1 plus shell 2 can hold 8 electrons This accounts for there being 8 basic columns in the periodic table with the most common elements in the first 'period' or horizontal row. An atom can change its number of electrons by becoming an ion . It can gain or loose one or more electrons an so become a positive ion ( Cation) or negative (anion) Such ions can interact with other ions electrostatically to form an ionic bond. The valency of such a bond will be equal to the number of electrons gained or lost so with single negative charge bonding ionically to a single positive charge, as in the salt example the valency is one. We do not however normally get single molecules of salt, but larger crystals being a three dimensional array of positive sodium ions and negative chlorine ions. So the crystal is still ionically bonded but each individual ion now connects to a surrounding group of the other ions and distributes a little bit of that valency to each. So in ionic crystals we have a different situation and the surrounding number of ions around each ion is called its coordination number. For pretty pictures see link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordination_number Now I said that 8 is a special number. It is true that atoms without 8 electrons in their shell can share electrons with electrons in another atom. When they share they are held together by a basic bond called a covalent bond. Here the covalent valency is the number of electrons it can share that is all the electrons in the incomplete outer shell. So Carbon, atomic number 6, has 4 electrons in its outer shell and has a valency of 4 as it can gain a share in up to 4 electrons. Finally and only for completeness some elements (metals) can join together in what ammounts to giant crystal molecules with each metallic atom contributing an electron to a common pool which then belongs to the wole lump of metal holding it together.
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 Thanks Mordred, interesting & very confusing. 1 hour ago, studiot said: The smallest particle of a substance is called a molecule. Molecules are made of only a small number of basic substances called elements. The smallest particle of an element is called an atom. The molecules of some elements appear as single atoms others appear as two or more atoms joined together. How can a molecule be made of elements if elements themselves are made of atoms but molecules can appear as atoms? Am I going wrong thinking of size rather than energy waves? In my head I see this as (for explanitive purposes only) big, smaller, smaller, big going into smaller? Or is this due to density? And I'm a bit scared of what your answer might be if it is lol Sorry if I misundestood this completely. And yes chemistry not physics, when I was reading about the atom, I think one of the pages I got directed to explained this bonding behaviour. Are Ions created purposefully by humans or are these created during supernovae too?
studiot Posted November 3 Posted November 3 18 minutes ago, Imagine Everything said: How can a molecule be made of elements if elements themselves are made of atoms but molecules can appear as atoms? A molecule has to be made of at least one element. Helium is an element that does not bond and is called an inert gas. A helium molecule contains exactly one atom of helium and nothing else. By contrast an oxygen molecule contains 2 atoms of the element oxygen only and an ozone molecule contains 3 atoms of oxygen only. A carbon dioxide molecule contains one atom of carbon and two atoms of oxygen. A water molecule contains one atom of oxygen and two atoms of hydrogen. Air is a mixture of nitrogen molecules, oxygen molecules and carbon dioxide molecules and a very small percentage of other molecules Can you see the pattern beginning to develop?
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 (edited) 40 minutes ago, studiot said: A molecule has to be made of at least one element. Helium is an element that does not bond and is called an inert gas. A helium molecule contains exactly one atom of helium and nothing else. By contrast an oxygen molecule contains 2 atoms of the element oxygen only and an ozone molecule contains 3 atoms of oxygen only. A carbon dioxide molecule contains one atom of carbon and two atoms of oxygen. A water molecule contains one atom of oxygen and two atoms of hydrogen. Air is a mixture of nitrogen molecules, oxygen molecules and carbon dioxide molecules and a very small percentage of other molecules Can you see the pattern beginning to develop? I think so yes, well maybe...does this mean everything has oxygen atoms or requires oxygen atoms to become something else? Except for He? or other inert gases if there are some? Edited November 3 by Imagine Everything typo
studiot Posted November 3 Posted November 3 (edited) 29 minutes ago, Imagine Everything said: I think so yes, well maybe...does this mean everything has oxygen atoms or requires oxygen atoms to become something else? Except for He? or other inert gases if there are some? Here is wikipedia's period table and a link to the Royal Society of Chemistry interactive one which is a good one to play with https://www.rsc.org/periodic-table Wikipedia uses the term noble gases (an old fashioned term) for what I call the inert gases. Helium (He) is the one with the smallest molecule and appears at the top of the extreme right hand side of the table. The combined two pink columns on the left and 6 yellow block on the right comprise my 0ctet (8) original table. Don't worry about the blue and green for the momment. 29 minutes ago, Imagine Everything said: I think so yes, well maybe...does this mean everything has oxygen atoms or requires oxygen atoms to become something else? I just picked oxygen as an example I thought you might be familiar with. The point of valence is that you can't just make up combinations od different atoms (ie different elements) there are rule of combination some rules tell you if they combination is feasible. Valence tells you how much of each will combine if the combination is feasible. Keep asking questions that's the way to understanding. Edited November 3 by studiot
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 (edited) 2 hours ago, studiot said: Can you see the pattern beginning to develop? Thank you btw, Is the pattern 3 ? Wouldn't all pairs of things be 3's? A pair makes up a whatever thing it makes up (the 3rd). Like night and day make a whole day. Glass and water make a glass of water. The sea shore & the sand make up a coast. Einsteins theory of relativity used 3 things too...Energy, Mass & Speed of light. At least as I see the equasion without totally understanding all the equasions & knowledge behind it. An atom is usually? a proton, neutron and electron - made up of 3 A neucleus is a proton, netron held together by a nuclear force (the 3rd) A proton has 3 quarks? a neutron has 3 quarks? Quantum entangled particles have 2 pieces linked by a mediator (another 3rd) 3 .... 3 .... 3 .... 3 seems to be everywhere Just a thought, and maybe there's nothing to it but perhaps there is also a 3rd missing from DE/DM that would help define or understand it? A D? If an electron field has electrons, they are negative and positive creating a 3 overall. DM intrigues me as I'm sure it does all of you experts. (I'm not implying I'm an expert) I'm sure I'm wrong but one of the ways I see the universe when I think about it ow and before was that it was self creating, though I can only think it would mean something had to start it to begin with, whatever or whoever that was. So with creative imigination, one way I see it is like one of those knitting ball things I was taught in infant school. We had a circular bit of card that we then knitted around one side iirc and then did the other side before pulling the card out. So our universe was born but from what? Maybe a template/mediator? rather than a physical thing and on the other side is also a universe but not seperate to, rather just more of the one we see. Not even neccessarily opposite to the part we live in, just the rest of it. Maybe filled with the material consumed by & into a BH singularity and passed back into the other half (other side of the template (card) where it does the same thing again and again and again. Like a (forgive my metaphor) never ending knitted ball of wool. My imagination lmao...an interesting thought and you don't need to comment on that, it's probably a very wild and weird idea. This would be the ulimate 3 I guess From my idea, I see this 'thing' in my head as a 3 or a 3rd if you will, not 3rd as in fraction, just a simple 3rd area or item. 2 seperate boundary conditions with a 3rd state between them Was 6k Kelvins the heat of the universe when it exploded into life? Just curious after breifly looking at the PT link Edited November 3 by Imagine Everything
studiot Posted November 3 Posted November 3 27 minutes ago, Imagine Everything said: Is the pattern 3 ? Wouldn't all pairs of things be 3's? The second line is a bit Irish isn't it ? The pattern I am thinking is All material matter is made of ↓ Either pure substance or a mixture of pure substances. ↓ Pure substances are made of ↓ Molecules which are all the same ↓ Molecules are made of one or more atoms of the same or different kinds ↓ There are many (millions) of different kinds of molecule but ↓ There are only about 150 kinds of atom. ↓ Each different atom is unique to a particular element ↓ Each element is represented once only by its own symbol in the periodic table.
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 1 minute ago, studiot said: The second line is a bit Irish isn't it ? Yeah as I've written it I suppose it does lol, let me explain if I can. A son and a daughter would be a pair of siblings but they would also be called children, with the description 'children' being the 3rd thing. Does that make more sense? So I guess not just an item or area but description as well and maybe more and maybe my imagination is just running away again. It does tend to do that as you might have seen already - whistles & looks in the air innocently suspiciously 6 minutes ago, studiot said: There are many (millions) of different kinds of molecule but ↓ There are only about 150 kinds of atom. That's interesting 9 minutes ago, studiot said: Each different atom is unique to a particular element ↓ Each element is represented once only by its own symbol in the periodic table. If each atom is unique to a particular element, and it looks like there are 118 know elements, is science missing 32 elements? And if so, how does that work if you know what the atoms are? Wouldn't you know what the elements are too just by knowing what the atom is?
studiot Posted November 3 Posted November 3 2 hours ago, Imagine Everything said: If each atom is unique to a particular element, and it looks like there are 118 know elements, is science missing 32 elements? And if so, how does that work if you know what the atoms are? Wouldn't you know what the elements are too just by knowing what the atom is? There are a little over 80 stable or long life radioactive naturally occurring elements. There are a little over 10 extra elements which are shorter life radioactive and can occcur naturally on Earth or elsewhere. The rest of the known elements up to the 118 currently known have very short lives indeed so we don't find them naturally, we only find them in reactions as intermediates towards some other element. So in the last 50 years we have discovered something like 50 previously unknown elements. Some of these were predicted before actual discovery. In the same way calculation suggests there is an 'island of comparative stability' between elements 125 and 135, if we can find them. 150 is a nice round number that may be realised within the next 50 years.
Imagine Everything Posted November 3 Author Posted November 3 26 minutes ago, studiot said: island of comparative stability Thanks, that was also interesting.
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